Richard III

[prendrelemick]

Another unpopular Plantagenet was King John.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riUWuTpZfZ0



Just found the "Deadliest Warrior series" on utube, similar idea but a bit serious. How about George Washington Vs Napoleon!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&fe...&v=Pl_MLGMXWUw

[kasie]

Another unpopular Plantagenet was King John....

But at least we know where he was buried - he's in Worcester Cathedral. He was apparently so unpopular that most churches were rather reluctant to take him but Worcester which was a monastic establishment as was the final resting place of Richard III eventually did the charitable thing and found him a spot not too far from the High Altar, again like Richard.

[prendrelemick]

It's surprising who you find in England's Medieval Cathederals. That's one of the reasons I like going round them, among all the the forgotten Bishops and Barons you can stumble across a significant historical figure. Without them a Cathedral is just a pile of stones, but if you find, say, King John buried there, and you can reach out and touch his sepulchre, the whole history of the place and of the Nation feels much more real. (I was going to say comes alive but that doesn't fit)

[Gilliatt Gurgle]

I was having a chuckle at your King John video which led me to a Roger Miller song I like to sing in the shower regarding Nottingham. His mentioning of Prince John and taxation, led me to Richard I.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSXM3Zg0eBo

While listening to this^, I learned that Richard I was divvied up between Rouen,Châlus and Anjou.
(Note the coincidence with Rouen and Joan of Arc)

From wikipedia:
"Richard's heart was buried at Rouen in Normandy, the entrails in Châlus (where he died) and the rest of his body was buried at the feet of his father at Fontevraud Abbey in Anjou"

[prendrelemick]

The entrails and lights were often buried near to where they died in order to stop the body from becoming "noisome" during its royal progression to the final resting place.

The heart thing was fairly common too. The Crusaders used pop the heart of a fallen comrade into a lead pot and send it back home for burial.

[Lokasenna]

Whilst we're on the topic of getting heads of state to fight, the resignation of Emperor Palpantine... sorry, Pope Benedict XVI... made me wonder who the pluckiest Pope in history might be. Any contenders? My money would be on either Alexander VI or Benedict IX...

[prendrelemick]

Julius II was known as The Fearsome Pope. So I'd back him.

[prendrelemick]

It seems the proposed tomb for Richard (designed by The Ricardians) has the Lancastrian rose on it! More indignity heaped upon the dead King. You can tell the difference when not in colour, by the position of the sepels.


Are those Tudors are still at it, and have infiltrated The Richard the III society.



Also in the news this morning, Macbeth. He was a sweet cuddly thoroughly decent chap after all.

[kev67]

Yer, that William was a right bastard ! (medieval joke)

I believe he was originally known as William the Bastard, at least according to an historical novel I read about one of his bodyguards.

Anyway, an article in New Scientist pointed out that at the press conference, the University of Leicester spokesperson used legal terminology, "beyond reasonable doubt." New Scientist says science establishes truth differently to law courts, and that Leicester University's findings have to be peer-reviewed.

By the way, King Henry I is buried somewhere in Reading. He was buried under Reading Abbey, but, when Henry VIII disolved the monastaries, his body could not be found. According to Wikipedia, the best guess is that he is buried under a nearby school.

[prendrelemick]

king Henry I is missing! Send for Time Team. The most pertinent thing I remember about him is that he had about 29 children, but only one Royal male heir who was lost at sea in the famous White Ship.

That led to all sorts of trouble and strife between King Stephen and the Empress Matilda, Until Henry II came along and was probably the most powerful King we've ever had.

[kev67]

I think even the Time Team would have a problem finding him. The school he is supposed to be under, St James School, does not seem to exist any more. There's a St James Church close by, but no school. It turns out Henry I was buried in more than one place. His brains, bowels, heart, eyes and tongue were all buried in Rouen in France. The rest of him was buried in a silver coffin in Reading Abbey.

http://www.berkshirehistory.com/villages/reading.html

I must say, those Plantagenets are what I regard as proper kings. English history tends to start at 1066, so the Saxon kings don't count. The Tudors were interlopers. The Stuarts were Scottish interlopers. The rest since then have been German interlopers. None of them did any proper fighting since the Restoration nor any proper ruling. Whenever there was a break in the line of succession, Parliament would invite someone from another country to be king or queen. Just so long as they weren't Catholics. Queen Victoria should never have been queen. George IV had children but Parliament would not recognise his marriage because she was Catholic, so the children were considered illegitimate. Henry VIII has a lot to answer for.

[prendrelemick]

It gets even better. Mrs P informs me his body (or what remained of it) was put inside the carcase of a bull and shipped to England for burial - it was the old problem of the noisome corpse again - though how that was supposed to help I'm not sure.

I should explain Mrs P is a big Jean Plaidy fan, she has read all her historical books and they go from William I to Victoria.

I think William of Orange was the last English King to lead his troops to battle. He was a proffesional soldier before he was invited to rule in England in place of the Catholic James the second.

[Emil Miller]

Given recent the UK parliamentary vote on 'same sex marriages', might we not see a similar arrangement should an heir to the throne be so inclined ?

[prendrelemick]

I don't reckon so. The only bar to the throne is the catholic faith and there are plenty of heirs around especially as from now on female offspring will have equal precedence.

[Gilliatt Gurgle]

...used pop the heart of a fallen comrade into a lead pot...

Do you suppose that is where we get the phrase "heavy heart"?
"It is with heavy heart that I inform you of Richard's passing...oh and here ya go, the heart's in the pot"

...His brains, bowels, heart, eyes and tongue were all buried in Rouen in France....

Another reference to Rouen, what's behind the French Connection? Norman?

edit

I meant to add that today (Feb 16) is the anniversary of Howard Carters discovery of King Tut's burial chamber in 1923.
This led me to wonderin', have there been any mentions of curses befalling those who tamper with Richard III?