I don't think this is true. Hunter gatherers were nomads because they ate the food in one area and had to move to the next area with a stock of ready food. How would 7 billion hunter gatherers co-ordinate that?Originally Posted by sushil_yadav
I don't think this is true. Hunter gatherers were nomads because they ate the food in one area and had to move to the next area with a stock of ready food. How would 7 billion hunter gatherers co-ordinate that?
This is very short sighted. There is a lot of movement of goods and services in and between countries, which involves transport, which requires fuel...etc
We can't go back to the model you suggest - there are too many people for that.
There are other things thaty can be done though - remove the need, and cultural pressure for a large family, for example. Your country could do something about that.
The Pope must not maintain a prohibition of contraception - though it looks as though their position is softening.
Technology has brought us to this place - in industry and agriculture, and more work needs to be done on efficient food production.
Unstable governments need a political settlement in order to develop and eventually contribute.
Alternative energy needs to be developed and promoted.
Regression won't work.
Industrial Society blaming overpopulation for global crisis is like America blaming Taliban and Al Qaeda for violence and terrorism.
Taliban and Al Qaeda were creations of America / West which provided weapons and money to them for years and years when they were fighting against Russia.
Overpopulation is a creation of industrialization........World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the absence of industrialization world population would have been only a small fraction of 7 billion today.
I hate industrialization in fact though I never can be out of the fetters of industrialization. The clothes I wear, the kind of foods, drink I take, the transportation- means I use to travel from place, the books I love to read, the movies I choose to see, the songs I listen every day and the Internet that has enabled me to talk to you across a thousand miles have to do with industrialization. I will be phony if I make the maximum of it and abhor it blatantly. The comforts of my home, the gadgets I bedeck my house with the best obtainable furnishings has to do with somebody's industry o invention. I take everything for granted as if I have claim over them by birth, inherently, naturally the way I feel I must have the freedom to breathe in air ( alas today we have no freedom to breathe in fresh air) but there are so many individuals, institutions, dedicated scientists and technologists contributing to make available all we easily are enjoying in this world.
Let us think coolly for a while. We have been too greedy; We have emptied the seas of their sea animals, the planet of their rare species, the air of some very beautiful aerial beings, birds and carbonized the earth's surface. Deforestation is on the go destroying millions of natural habitations. Our urbanization is an anti-natural campaign leading to desertification of the earth's surface. Even our bucolic communities are engaged in clearing forests, destroying floras and faunas for their settlements.
In fact we are disfiguring the Mother Earth shamelessly, and we are ruining her and in the end we will be ruining ourselves when we will have only stretches of tarred roads full of ashes behind and ahead of us with few lives there. We are greedy beings, and our world of consumptions is ugly and we are like deadly dragons that swallow up everything that comes its way and …..
……soon there will be so many black holes … and we will be swallowed…by our beloved industries
I didn't say that industrial society is blaming overpopulation. It is just a fact that we have these two together. You are correct in saying that industrialisation has increased world population by virtue of better conditions, medicine, agriculture etc. It is what we have to deal with now. 6 billion people are not going to disappear. They have to be accommodated.
I don't think the solution lies in the past, as that time dealt with the population as it is. We have to use our improving tech to improve the situation.
So India has 1 billion people contributing to the world population, and is rapidly becoming industrialised. Is it that you see this as a bad thing in your own country and assume that it is the same everywhere else? Also, what would you suggest India do about your population growth? I'm not criticising your country. I'd like to hear your ideas.
The entire world has been making efforts to control / check population growth for the last 30 - 40 years........these efforts should / will continue in future.......so there is no problem with population.
The two things that have destroyed environment are overconsumerism and overpopulation [both of which are by-products of industrialization].
This world has been trying to control population while increasing consumerism exponentially.......this is very ridiculous.
Both have to be controlled.
Story of Pseudo Environmentalism in Industrial Society.
A Serial Killer with endless supply of ammunition goes on the rampage in the city.....The Police are informed.....They arrive on the scene.....They do not try to stop or capture the shooter.....They do not try to kill or incapacitate the shooter.....They allow him to continue shooting......They give him full liberty to move around all over the city.
The Police focus on the victims of shooting.....They take them to Hospitals and try to save them with the help of best Technology / Health Care.....The Government sets up thousands of Organizations to do research on how the Whites can be saved, How the Blacks can be saved, How the Asians can be saved, How the Young can be saved, How the Elderly can be saved.....The Government gives Billions of Dollars of Grant to "Think Tanks" and NGO's to find out how the victims can be saved.....People of the city engage in Billions of pages of Discussion, Debate and Argument to find a solution to the problem.
This is not the story of the Mass Shooter.....This is the story of Environmentalism in Industrial Society.
Environment is being destroyed by Industrial Activity........Environmental Activists and Organizations are trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity
One group is trying to save Forests......The second group is trying to save Rivers......The third group is trying to save Oceans......The fourth group is trying to make the Air clean......The fifth group is trying to save Tigers and Elephants......The sixth group is trying to save Whales and Dolphins.
Height of Insanity and Abnormality.
People who are trying to save environment in Industrial Society without stopping all Industrial Activity deserve the Nobel Prize for Lunacy.
Why don't people realize the futility and absurdity of their efforts......It is impossible to save animals, trees, air, water and land without stopping all Industrial Activity.
What is the point in saving a few Dogs, Cats, Whales, Tigers and Elephants when Industrial Society is killing billions of animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses and billions of Wild Animals in Forests by destroying Forests with Industrial Activities like Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Construction Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Networks and ever expanding Towns and Cities.......Industrial Society is also killing billions of fish in the oceans with Industrial Fishing and through discharge of billions of tonnes of Industrial Waste into oceans which has made them poisonous, acidic, warmer and created oxygen-deprived dead zones in the oceans.
It is impossible to save Air, water and Land without stopping all Industrial Activity because Industrial Activity is killing them with trillions of tonnes of Metal waste, Plastic waste, Gaseous waste, Chemical waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.......Industrial Activity produces trillions of tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Waste and there are only three places on earth where all this waste can go....Air, water and Soil.....There is no fourth place on earth where this waste can go...... It is impossible for Rivers, Oceans, Atmosphere and Soil to be clean in Industrial Society.
This planet can only sustain a Hunter_Gatherer Society or an Agrarian Society......Not an Industrial Society.
All Environmentalism is Pseudo-Environmentalism in Industrial Society.......It is impossible to save environment in an Industrial Society.
People who pretend they are saving environment in Industrial Society are even more insane, abnormal and criminal than people who are destroying the environment.
It is impossible to save environment in Industrial Society because Industrialization itself is the cause of environmental destruction.........In a non-industrial society environmentalism was not even needed.......In the absence of Industrial Activity environment got saved automatically because only limited destruction of environment was possible without Industrial Machines.
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Environment has been destroyed by Industrial Activity........Trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity is like ..
Trying to save a victim of shooting by shooting him even more.
Trying to save a victim of stabbing by stabbing him even more.
Trying to save a victim of poisoning by giving him even more poison.
Height of Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality.......You cannot save environment by destroying more of it.
Industrial Society has been destroying Extra environment for 250 years........It has been destroying environment for "thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.
You cannot save a person after killing him.......You cannot save environment after it has been killed by Industrial Activity.
The entire Industrial Society deserves the Nobel Prize for Lunacy for pretending that environment is getting saved when the reality is that Industrial Society has been destroying extra environment after industrialization and has destroyed so much extra environment in 250 years that there is hardly any environment left to save.
Well, be prepared. It's going to get better with your insanity evaporating. Watch it if you please.
The problem is politics. Governments are not swift enough to adopt green measures and promote sustainable living enough - but it is beginning. Your post is apocalyptic and retrograde. I've no idea what you think would happen to all the people who are sustained by modern processes and economies. We now need these systems to sustain our populations. What is certain is that without a drastic reduction in the population, a return to the agricultural past will not happen.
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When there was still time to save environment a whole century was wasted in the futile debate over Capitalism, Socialism and Communism.
Trying to save environment after 250 years of relentless Industrial Activity is like trying to revive a dead man.....There is hardly any environment left to save.
Industrial Activity destroys environment.....Where there is Industrial Activity there is environmental destruction.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism doesn't matter at all.
Monsanto is not going to become less harmful under Communism or Socialism.
Nuclear Power Plants are not going to become less harmful under Communism or Socialism.
Mining Industry is not going to become less harmful under Communism or Socialism.
Logging Industry is not going to become less destructive under Communism or Socialism.
Construction Industry is not going to become less destructive under Communism or Socialism.
Transportation Industry is not going to become less harmful under Communism or Socialism.
Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Tar Sands and Hydraulic Fracking are not going to become less destructive under Communism or Socialism.
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This planet cannot sustain an Industrial / Urban Society......The problem is not Capitalism, The problem is Industrialization / Urbanization.......The solution is not Communism or Socialism, The solution is Non-Industrial / Non-Urban Society.
Capitalism, Communism or Socialism does not matter at all........What matters is percentage of Urban Population......A Socialist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population will be as Harmful, Destructive and Evil as a Capitalist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population...... A Communist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population will be as Harmful, Destructive and Evil as a Capitalist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population.
Urban Population is responsible for consumerism.......Urban Population does not produce Food.....It produces thousands of Consumer Goods and Services.
Consumerism is directly proportional to Percentage of Urban Population.
Saving environment in Industrial Society is an impossibility......No Industrial Society can save environment.......Communist or Socialist Industrial Societies cannot be less destructive than Capitalist Industrial Societies.
There cannot be any sustainable Industrial Society........The fault does not lie in Capitalism.....The fault lies in Industrialization.....All Industrial Societies are the same.....All Industrial Societies are equally harmful, destructive and evil.
Destruction of environment is guaranteed in Industrial Society......The debate over Capitalism, Communism and Socialism in the context of Environmental Crisis is meaningless and absurd.
Industrialization , Urbanization and Consumerism go hand in hand......They happen together.
Today 50% of world population is Urban, living in cities...... 50% of world population is producing food for entire population and the remaining 50% population living in Cities is primarily engaged in production and marketing of thousands of consumer goods and services........Urban population is not producing food, it is producing consumer goods and services.......Even if the entire world is made Communist or Socialist it is not going to bring about any change in consumerism because the percentage of Urban Population will remain the same and it will continue producing and marketing thousands of consumer goods and services.
In America 90 - 95% of population is Urban......That is why consumerism is so rampant in the US......Even if America is made Communist or Socialist it is not going to reduce consumerism because the percentage of Urban Population would still remain the same.
In Europe 80 - 90% of population is Urban.
In China and India consumerism has risen exponentially with the increase in percentage of Urban Population.
Capitalism, Communism or Socialism does not matter.......What matters is Industrialization and Urbanization which results in Consumerism.
This planet cannot sustain Industrial Urban Population.......This planet cannot sustain a society that does not produce its own food.
This planet can sustain a Hunter_Gatherer Society or an Agrarian Society where almost the entire population is engaged in "searching for food" / producing food......This planet cannot sustain an Industrial Society where 50% of population is producing food for entire population and the remaining 50% population is producing thousands of consumer goods and services.
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A person is being shot 100 times......Some people are supposed to save the victim.....They do nothing till 99 bullets have hit the victim.....When the last bullet is about to be fired they rush to save the victim, who is already dead by then.
Industrial Activity has been destroying Biodiversity and Ecosystems for 250 years.....Industrial Society should not have been started in the first place.....Once it came into existence its harmful impact on environment should have alerted people and they should have tried to stop Industrial Activity in the early stages.....If people had tried to stop Industrial Activity 50 years or even 100 years after it began, environment could have been saved because most of the environmental destruction has taken place in the last 50 - 100 years when the rate of Industrialization and Consumerism rose exponentially.....Trying to save environment after 250 years of Industrial Activity is like trying to revive a dead man.....There is hardly any environment left to save.
More than 99.9% destruction of this planet has already happened.....Only the end of humans is yet to happen.
Most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems have already been destroyed.
Species are not lost when they become extinct....Species are lost when they get decimated....Species were lost when their populations dropped from billions and millions before industrialization to thousands and hundreds after industrialization.
There are(were) millions of species in this world....Most of them have already been decimated because Industrial Activity has destroyed most of the forests....Millions of Plant and Animal species have been decimated by Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Construction Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Transportation Industry, Millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Networks, Ports and Airports..
If we calculate the decline in populations of millions of species after industrialization the combined loss will come to more than 99.9%.
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Rivers, Lakes, Oceans, Atmosphere and Land have been polluted, poisoned and killed by trillions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.....The entire planet has become a Toxic Dump.....All Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste that has been produced by Industrial Society in 250 years after Industrial Revolution has accumulated on earth....It has not gone out of earth.
Oceans have turned acidic and warmer and there are oxygen deprived dead zones in the oceans....Fish in the oceans have been decimated by Industrial Fishing.
Billions of acres of fertile soil that was the source of food to millions of species has been killed by Cement, Concrete and Asphalt.
More than 99.9% destruction of this planet has already happened.....Only the end of humans is yet to happen.
A society that has destroyed all the natural resources of the planet will also destroy itself.
After destroying biodiversity and ecosystems which sustained human life for millions of years man will not exist...It is only a matter of a few years now.
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When a mass shooter kills 20 American kids the world is outraged.
When millions of baby seals are clubbed to death the world is not outraged.
When Industrial Society kills billions of animals in Slaughter Houses the world is not outraged.
When Industrial Society kills billions of wild animals by destroying forests with Industrial Activity the world is not outraged.
When Industrial Society kills Rivers, Lakes, Oceans, Atmosphere and Land with billions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste the world is not outraged.
When Industrial Society kills billions of acres of fertile soil that provides food to millions of species with Cement, Concrete and Asphalt the world is not outraged.
When Industrial Society kills ecosystems that are home to millions of species it is called Progress, Growth, Development.
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Who is not a killer in Industrial Society?????
Every citizen of Industrial Society is a Serial Killer.....Serial Killer of nature.....Serial Killer of animals, trees, air, water and land.
Industrial Society has killed billions of farm animals in Slaughter Houses and billions of wild animals in forests with Industrial Activity for making consumer goods and services.....If we divide this number by total Industrial population we get per capita killing of animals.
Industrial Society has killed billions of Trees in forests with Industrial Activity for making consumer goods and services.....If we divide this number by total Industrial population we get per capita killing of Trees.
Industrial Activity has produced billions of tonnes of solid, liquid and gaseous Industrial Waste.....This waste has polluted and poisoned air, water and soil....If we divide this number by total Industrial population we get per capita waste which is a measure of per capita killing of air, water and soil.
Every citizen of Industrial Society is a Serial Killer.....Serial Killer of nature.....Serial Killer of animals, trees, air, water and land.
Mass shooters are not the only insane people in this society.....The entire Industrial Society is insane.
The entire Industrial Society is insane, abnormal and criminal.
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Industrial Society is a curse on this planet.
This planet can only sustain "Food Searching" or "Food Producing" Societies.....It cannot sustain an Industrial Society.
This planet can only sustain Hunter_Gatherer Society or Agrarian Society.....It cannot sustain an Industrial Society....It cannot sustain an Urban Society that produces thousands of consumer goods and services instead of food.
An Industrial Society will always be cruel to millions of other species and to itself.
A society that has destroyed all the natural resources of the planet will also destroy itself.
After destroying biodiversity and ecosystems which sustained human life for millions of years man will not even exist.
Welfare of humans and millions of other species is only possible in a non-industrial society.
Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth....The biggest act of killing, murder and terrorism on earth.
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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Last edited by sushil_yadav; 12-30-2012 at 10:23 PM.
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Five Elephants were run over by a train in the state of Orissa in India yesterday.
One of them was a female in advanced stage of pregnancy whose foetus came out as the train hit the mother.
The world will celebrate one more New Year's Eve today......After torturing, slaughtering and decimating millions of species this world will celebrate yet another New Year today.
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After destroying planet Earth.....After destroying most of the biodiversity and ecosystems, Industrial Society should be in Mourning but it wants to Celebrate instead.
It wants to Celebrate Diwali, Christmas, New Year and Hundreds of other Festivals.
If Industrial Society had any shame there would have been no Celebrations in the past , no celebrations for the next thousands of years.....only Mourning.
Industrial Society has decimated millions of Animal Species, destroyed Forests, poisoned Rivers, Oceans, Soil and Sky with Billions of Tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste.
Industrial Society is a curse on this planet.
Celebrate!!!....Celebrate!!!....Celebrate!!!
Celebrate Diwali, Christmas, New Year and Hundreds of other Festivals!!!!.....Go Shopping.....Spend Money.....Buy Gifts....Buy thousands of consumer goods and services.....Promote and Accelerate Industrial Activity which will kill even more Biodiversity and Ecosystems.
And then wait for next year to celebrate the death of nature once more.
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Industrial Society is a curse on this planet.
This planet can only sustain "Food Searching" or "Food Producing" Societies.....It cannot sustain an Industrial Society.
This planet can only sustain Hunter_Gatherer Society or Agrarian Society.....It cannot sustain an Industrial Society....It cannot sustain an Urban Society that produces thousands of consumer goods and services instead of food.
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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
If Industrial Society had any shame there would have been no Celebrations in the past , no celebrations for the next thousands of years.....only Mourning.
So why don't you take on that project for us... a thousand years of mourning... instead of typing on your computer and posting on the internet... both products of industrialization. Your whole rant is nothing more than a moronic fantasy. You may imagine that the pre-industrial work was some idyllic fairyland... in spite of what you see in the under-developed nations of the world, but history suggests something quite different:
http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pink..._violence.html
Beware of the man with just one book. -Ovid
The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the man who can't read them.- Mark Twain
My Blog: Of Delicious Recoil
http://stlukesguild.tumblr.com/
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Eat, Drink and make Merry (while the planet burns).
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I'm not being racist.
If the world will collapse environmentally, culturally, philosophically, economically, politically, spiritually, technologically, socially, Indians are to blame. Anywhere you go in the world, you'll see Indians manage or monopolize these things. The Indianization of the world is currently happening.
Last edited by miyako73; 01-02-2013 at 01:36 AM.
"You laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh at you because you're all the same."
--Jonathan Davis
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Progress, Growth and Development (of the material kind) are / were primarily western concepts which were forced upon rest of the world.
Today the entire world is collectively involved in destruction of environment but the biggest role in this process of destruction was played by Western Civilization.
The West was the first to start Industrial Revolution and travel on the destructive path of Industrialization and Consumerism.......It then forced western lifestyle on its colonies in Asia, Africa and America whose cultures it had already destroyed during the era of Colonization.
The West took the entire world on the wrong path of Industrialization, Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP that has led to destruction of most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems.
The West did not have the foresight to know that a lifestyle based on loot, plunder and exploitation of natural resources would destroy the very things that created and sustained all life on earth for millions of years and ultimately lead to total destruction of biodiversity and ecosystems.
The West started Industrial Revolution and promoted Materialism because it focused on "Reason"......The East had focused on "Subjective Experience" for thousands of years which led to "Spiritual Development".
The West spent its time and energy on "reason" which led to Science, Technology and Industrialization / Material Development....The West has got very little knowledge of Spiritual Development.....Very little concept of peaceful states of mind / peaceful subjective experience.
The Aborigines of Australia would not have started the Industrial Revolution.
Red Indians / Native Americans would not have started the Industrial Revolution.
The Africans are very unlikely to have started the Industrial Revolution.
These cultures were quite happy and content with their Rituals and Spiritual Practices.
In India people had made efforts for Spiritual Development for thousands of years.....They developed methods and techniques for making the mind quiet, tranquil and peaceful......The knowledge of subjective experience led to the fields of yoga, meditation and pranayam [breath control].......Material Development has destroyed the planet, If any kind of development was needed it was Spiritual Development.
Human work should fulfill the basic needs of food, clothing and shelter.....It should not turn into overwork or destructive work.....If extra time is available to people and society after basic needs have been fulfilled it should be used for Spiritual Practices, Art and Culture.
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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Last edited by sushil_yadav; 01-02-2013 at 02:12 AM.
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