The Visual Arts: Exploring the History of "Fine Art" and Beyond

[Cioran]

Well, it appears ftil is not interested in discussing anything beyond what look to be old grudges from some other thread. His/her posts also sound somewhat like a call to censor art (art no doubt that ftil dislikes or cannot understand).

Maybe ftil will get around to letting us newcomers know what "ugly art placed on a pedestal by occultists and Masons" refers to.

[ftil]

Well, it appears ftil is not interested in discussing anything beyond what look to be old grudges from some other thread. His/her posts also sound somewhat like a call to censor art (art no doubt that ftil dislikes or cannot understand).

Maybe ftil will get around to letting us newcomers know what "ugly art placed on a pedestal by occultists and Masons" refers to.

Well, I have read your first response to my post……You need to find somebody else to have conversation. I don’t have time for that.

If you are a newcomer , you better take time to read previous posts rather than demanding the answer.
You better get used to the fact that people choose when they want to be engaged in conversation and with whom.

Enjoy LitNet.

[Cioran]

Well, I have read your first response to my post……You need to find somebody else to have conversation. I don’t have time for that.

If you are a newcomer , you better take time to read previous posts rather than demanding the answer.
You better get used to the fact that people choose when they want to be engaged in conversation and with whom.

Enjoy LitNet.

Yes, I understand you don't have time to define what you mean by "modern art" (today's art? the art of modernism, which is a 20th century movement? Or?) and you don't have time to defend your idiotic statement that such art is somehow ugly and destroys the soul, or some such. I just asked a question, and of course you are not obligated to answer it. In fact, that is probably best for you. It is better for you to remain silent and be thought a fool, after all, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

[Varenne Rodin]

Well, it appears ftil is not interested in discussing anything beyond what look to be old grudges from some other thread. His/her posts also sound somewhat like a call to censor art (art no doubt that ftil dislikes or cannot understand).

Maybe ftil will get around to letting us newcomers know what "ugly art placed on a pedestal by occultists and Masons" refers to.

I was wondering the same thing.

[ftil]

I just can’t believe it…......the same pattern again that has happened on St.Luke’s The Art Thread and my Mythology and religion in art……before threads were closed.

Time to go back to art. Franz Richard Unterberger's paintings may help reduce anxiety for a few.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ogq8toN4A

[Cioran]

If you want a different pattern, maybe you should post in a different way, and drop the defensiveness and antagonism. Why don't you just tell us what you dislike about Modern Art (I assume you mean nonrepresentational art) and why?

[ftil]

BBC's "British Masters" -Wyndham Lewis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZs6tmievRw

More of his paintings.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpainti...s/slideshow#/0

[Cioran]

So, you like Wyndham Lewis, who is positively steeped in modernism, but you don't like modern art? Or ... ?

If you don't want to answer questions from others, or discuss anything, why are you at a discussion board?

[Cioran]

Oh, wait, I think I get it. You offered up Unterberger, and then put "air quotes" around "British Masters" for Lewis. Gotcha!

Unterberger's paintings are technically accomplished and fine for his time, but of no real import in the history of art. Lewis's work is vastly superior.

[ftil]

Originally posted by Cioran

So, you like Wyndham Lewis, who is positively steeped in modernism, but you don't like modern art? Or ... ?

If you don't want to answer questions from others, or discuss anything, why are you at a discussion board?

I had feelings that you wrote in response to my post even though I was clear in my response to your post. Have you heard about ignore list?
You are in.....You may put me there too...you wouldn't be tempted.

Don't forget that it is art thread....you don't want this thread be closed do you?

Enjoy LitNet.

[Cioran]

I had feelings that you wrote in response to my post even though I was clear in my response to your post. Have you heard about ignore list?
You are in.....You may put me there too...you wouldn't be tempted.

Don't forget that it is art thread....you don't want this thread be closed do you?

Enjoy LitNet.

I am not doing anything to close it. That would be you, if anyone. I have no idea why you are so hostile and antagonistic.

You were not clear in response to my post, and I doubt others here have any idea of what you are on about. But you don't like Wyndham Lewis and do like Unterberger, right? Unterberger is insipid, though OK by the unenlightened standards of that time. Lewis was a much better artist. You have a very provincial and narrow view of art, no doubt because you are visually uneducated. Have you ever tried to make art, to see what it is all about?

[Cioran]

Actually, the more I read what you write, the more I am convinced that you are off your beam. I gather you got one of stlukesguild's earlier threads closed with your tantrums; I hope that doesn't happen here. He has done remarkable work.

[stlukesguild]

Well, art therapy is therapy. Don’t confuse art making process for healing with making art by professional artists. I can’t look at art without being aware of the impact of art upon our mental and emotional states. There are so many painters whose paintings raise a question of their state of mind.

You are saying one thing... and doing the exact opposite. You agree that one should not confuse art therapy with art... and then you turn about and look at art from a purely sociological/psychological point of view... seeing art merely for its impact upon our emotions and questioning the mental state of the artists.

Very disturb(ed) indeed. Even tough I don’t give a damn about C. Jung, godfather of art therapy, I appreciate the knowledge I got as well as the fact that it led me to deeper research. Everything is so bloody crystal clear when we dig deep enough.

Clear as mud.

Perhaps the most serious flaw in your theories of artistic manipulation is the fact that you grant the traditional art forms... painting, sculpture, print, etc... far too much power.

How many times I should list scholars who studied Bruno’s work so that you see that it is not my theory. Anybody who reads Bruno’s work can see clearly that it is a masterpiece of mass manipulation. It is not only used in art but in images that are used in advertisement or subliminals in movies or video clips.

Regardless of where the theory originates, you have sidestepped the issue that the traditional arts lack any of the power of manipulation and influence on the masses that you suggest.

It is very interesting how much energy you invest to deny it…….I have bad news for you……people are waking up. Perhaps it happens because people are mind controlled as they have never been before and human mind can only hold illusions and lies only for a certain period of time.

I think many would read this as sounding like the thinking of a paranoid conspiracy theorist.

[ftil]

Originally posted by stlukesguild

You are saying one thing... and doing the exact opposite. You agree that one should not confuse art therapy with art... and then you turn about and look at art from a purely sociological/psychological point of view... seeing art merely for its impact upon our emotions and questioning the mental state of the artists.

No, I don’t. You just don’t know what art therapy is.
I am on forum and I am curious about emotional and mental state of artists as I pick up a quite dark energy from their paintings. I bet anybody who picks up such feelings would ask those questions.

Clear as mud.

LOL! It is bloody crystal clear!

Regardless of where the theory originates, you have sidestepped the issue that the traditional arts lack any of the power of manipulation and influence on the masses that you suggest.

No, I didn’t sidestepped the issue. I have shared my experience with art and how it left me depleted and drained after watching for a few hours. Are you surprised that I started to research how and why art has such a deep and negative impact?

I think many would read this as sounding like the thinking of a paranoid conspiracy theorist.

Oh, are you saying that you don’t know anything about mind control? I bet you think that US government is also involved in conspiracy theory. Are you denying using subliminal in movie and music video? You should read Steven Jacobson’s Mind Control in America. He worked in Hollywood in early 80’s, editing movies. If you know a little about movie production as you claimed, you would know what I am talking about.

Project MKUltra is the code name for a covert research operation experimenting in the behavioral engineering of humans (mind control) through the CIA's Scientific Intelligence Division. The program began in the early 1950s, was officially sanctioned in 1953, was reduced in scope in 1964, further curtailed in 1967 and "officially halted" in 1973. The program engaged in many illegal activities; in particular it used unwitting U.S. and Canadian citizens as its test subjects, which led to controversy regarding its legitimacy. MKUltra involved the use of many methodologies to manipulate people's individual mental states and alter brain functions, including the surreptitious administration of drugs (especially LSD) and other chemicals, hypnosis, sensory deprivation, isolation, verbal and sexual abuse, as well as various forms of torture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra

Can we go back to art now? There are so many painters......

[Cioran]

Might it be possible to have an interesting discussion about art without it being derailed by ftil's rants?