The Visual Arts: Exploring the History of "Fine Art" and Beyond

[stlukesguild]

I was clear when I said modern art. Your comment doesn't apply to modern art.

So your comment about "boring" nudes only applies to Modern art? How does that make any sense beyond you personal dislike of Modernism?

Well, I see that you grab any chance to post nudity. Actually, the paintings you posted are mythology themes. Those paintings are not modern art either. I may reiterate what I said that women are fragmented with the emphasis on sexuality or the body parts. I am not going to waste hours and hours to prove my point by posting modern artists.

Your point seems to be that you don't like Modern art. As for "proving your point"... it's not that you are unwilling, but rather unable to prove that Modern art is somehow inherently different in its approach to the nude and sexuality.

Considering that you don't like Modernism... and you are bored or turned off by the nudes I have posted... I have to question why you feel the need to hijack the art threads I have started as opposed to starting your own.

[ftil]

So your comment about "boring" nudes only applies to Modern art? How does that make any sense beyond you personal dislike of Modernism?

Hey, where did I say that I dislike modern art? There are many modern painters I appreciate. I was talking about women in modern art.

As for "proving your point"... it's not that you are unwilling, but rather unable to prove that Modern art is somehow inherently different in its approach to the nude and sexuality.

Well, I am not going to prove it. A few years ago, I explored women in modern art. I had 20 pages of modern art and I barely scratched the tip of the iceberg. I would need at least 100 pages more but I got bored.

I have to question why you feel the need to hijack the art threads I have started as opposed to starting your own.

I don’t hijack your thread, I have responded to cacian’s post ……and you felt the need to respond to mine. I was polite to answer your post. Projection can be fun.

To be honest, I must say thank you as your threads inspire me in many ways.

[ftil]

I find certain postures in painting rather intriguing.
The painted looking the other way is an interesting one.
My avatar painting for example. There is something quite telling about it almost innocent.
Whenever I look at a painting I think about the person who painted it.
I find some arts I can relate to like Cezanne because the evidence of clothing is too apparent.
I find nude painting unappealing but I do prefer looking at a human form in its glory clothes and textures I am drawn to.

I have forgotten the name of the painter of your avatar. It is Andre Kohn.

More of his paintings.

http://www.howardmandville.com/pages...ages/kohn.html

[stlukesguild]

I was recently searching the internet for images on the theme of Mermaids, Nereids, and/or Sea Nymphs for some ideas relating to a painting I am currently plotting out. Unfortunately the vast majority of the images that I came upon were either of the sickly-sweet "Little Mermaid" variety...



... or one of the equally kitsch adolescent sci-fi/fantasy portrayals of an overly sexualized mermaid or sea nymph (as in nympho) pin-up rendered in airbrush or CGI:





What I was thinking was something a bit more more sophisticated... especially something along the lines of Gustav Klimt's Water Serpents...



Among the few paintings of any real merit, there was Herbert Draper's Sea Nymphs...



... and Icarus' Lament:



There was also Gennady Spirin's Little Mermaid...



... with the shimmering brushwork that reminds me of the paintings of the 19th century French Symbolist, Henri Fantin-Latour:





Unfortunately, the face of the drowned sailor in Spirin's painting lacks Fantin-Latour's classicism. Instead it has something of the cheesy look of of Japanese anime.

Another fascinating image was that of Mermaid by Adrian Borda:



The idea of the mermaid hung upside down like the latest catch at the fish market is quite unique. The cross from which she is hung suggests Christ... an allusion reinforced by the fish image, although one might also think of St. Peter, the "fisher of men" whose martyrdom involved being crucified upside-down. The arrow is at once phallic... but also suggests still another martyrdom: that of St. Sebastian. Unfortunately, much of the strength of this painting is undermined by the juvenile obsession with perfect surgically enhanced boobs and the fashion model's face.

One of the most interesting images I happened upon was that of a painting of a Mermaid by the Indian artist, Ashok Bhowmick:



Many of Bhowmick's paintings are rooted in Middle-Eastern and Indian mythology, and looking at this painting in particular, I cannot help but think of the famous Babylonian sculpture of Istar, the Goddess of Fertility, Love, War and Sex:



The most fortuitous discovery during this entire search, however, was that of this Mermaid by Enoki Toshiyuki:



It isn't that this particular painting of a mermaid is something truly outstanding (it isn't)... nor even the fact that Toshiyuki painted more than a single image of the theme:



No... rather it is that delving deeper into Toshiyuki's work I discovered a truly marvelous painter and illustrator hitherto unknown to me.

Enoki Toshiyuki



Most of the information available on Toshiyuki on the internet is in Japanese. What I have been able to uncover concerning his biography is quite minimal. He was born in 1961 in Tokyo. He earned both a Bachelors and Masters of Arts degree from the Tokyo National University of Fine Arts and Music, and continued on with a post-graduate fellowship at the same institution. Since 2001 he has taught design at the school and worked as an artist and illustrator. His training... and subsequent work has involved employing both traditional Japanese and Western painting methods. He favors using old worn brushes and a palette of colors that suggest something at once weathered and antique... as well as new. His light, often transparent touch and his use of gold leaf dispersed throughout the paintings creates a magical atmospheric effect.

Toshiyuki can be a marvelous portraitist:



He has done a number of quite lovely self-portraits:







His painting of a young girl in traditional Japanese folk garb is quite beautiful:



However, it is his reveries... daydreams... nocturnes... fantasies that are the most intriguing among his figurative work:











The ethereal and tenuous nature of these paintings owe much to the artist's use of traditional Japanese methods of painting with dry pigment, while there are also elements suggestive more of the Momoyama period Japanese screen paintings with their bold, flat, graphic imagery and use of gold leaf. Toshiyuki also claims influences from Western artists such as Gustav Klimt and late 19th century illustrators such as Arthur Rackham.

The artist spent a deal of time working at a zoo, and this experience helped to inspire a fascination with animals that has fueled many of his paintings:










A great many of Toshiyuki's paintings involve the exploration of mythological themes... Eastern and Western. His interest in animals carries over into this exploration of mythology with images of a variety of mythological beasts:





Among the mythological beasts that Toshiyuki has repeatedly explored in his work we find the traditional Asian dragon...







And the peacock/Phoenix/Firebird:















The decorative nature of these paintings... and the manner in which they are seen as part of an entire architectural space suggests the famous "Peacock Room" of James Whistler:





This may be a case of the cyclical nature of cultural influence, as Whistler was profoundly inspired by Japanese art and design.

Toshiyuki has also explored Western mythological themes... such as Eve and the garden of Eden:



... or even the Western folk-tale of Little Red Riding Hood:



In this marvelous painting, Toshiyuki employs a disjointed space that owes both to Asian concepts of tilted space, and Western post-Cubist ideas. In the top right we see a delicious still-life/landscape detail: catfish swimming in a small pond... while directly to the left our view changes and we are looking up at birds in the spiraling sky. Below, Red Riding Hood seemingly lies on the grass... taking a break on her trek to grandma's house... while almost hidden beneath the foliage at the bottom right the wolf peers out hungrily.

Nature... and the landscape... common traditional obsessions of Japanese art are major themes for Toshiyuki. This is true whether he is exploring images of human beings confronted by the overwhelming nature of the cosmos...



... or the deep, dark secrets of the forests at night:



Then he can turn around and explore the beauty of a waterfall with a Zen-like simplicity... and near abstraction:



Perhaps the most intriguing painting by Toshiyuki (of that which I've seen) is his triptych: Rainy Forest; Water's Edge; Story Teller



This work combines several of Toshiyuki's thematic obsessions: landscape, mythology, and animals.

In the left panel, Rainy Forest, the title say it all... as we are presented with an image of a tropical rain forest... spider monkeys in the trees above... and a tarantula on the ground below:



In the center panel, Water's Edge (River's Head) we are presented with another view of nature... this one being more suggestive of traditional Japanese and Chinese landscape painting with the image stacked up vertically, a view of a waterfall, and a vines twisting and turning in an almost calligraphic manner.



In the final painting, Story Teller, two figures (are they human or ape?) sit on a mountain top looking up at the stars which are seen as a shimmer of scattered gold dust. The title suggests that the elder figure is telling stories of the nature of the stars... creation... the gods... and the cosmos. As a result, the stars begin to take form... in the manner of the Western astrological symbols:



Toshiyuki is certainly an artist I will be keeping my eye upon. It seems that I am not alone in this as this last triptych was recently sold for a decent sum of money at a Christie's auction of Modern and Contemporary Asian Art.

[stlukesguild]

Phoebe Anna Traquair (1852-1936)


I stumbled upon another artist of real interest today. Actually I have known one work of hers for some time now: The Progress of the Soul... a stunning four-panel tapestry which was wrongly attributed on the website from which I had originally downloaded the image (No wonder I couldn't find any other works of a similar nature by this marvelous artist).

Phoebe Anna Traquair was a multi-talented artist and participant in the Celtic Revival/Scottish Renaissance in Arts and Crafts which occurred in the late 19th into the early twentieth century. Although she was considered a Scottish artist, Traquair was actually born in Dublin. She attended the School of Design in Dublin before moving to Edinburgh in 1874 after her marriage to Dr Ramsay Traquair, who was later appointed "Keeper of Natural History" at Edinburgh's Museum of Science and Art in 1874.

Phoebe was influenced by the Pre-Raphaelites, William Morris and the Arts and Crafts Movement, William Blake, and the Italian painters of the early Italian Renaissance (the period from which the "PreRaphaelites"... before Raphael... took their name). She was a correspondent of John Ruskin, a friend of William Holman Hunt and pursued a successful career as an artist, designer, and craft worker eventually achieving national and international recognition.

Among the staggering body of work completed over the course of her career, Traquair produced a good number of traditional paintings on canvas or panel:





As a lover of literature, Phoebe created several illuminated manuscripts... including this marvelous work, illustrating the Sonnets from the Portuguese of Elizabeth Barrett Browning:



Among her decorative paintings, one of the finest examples is the Grand Piano for the Great Hall at Lympne Castle, Kent:





An incredibly skilled embroiderer, Traquair produced a body of stunning tapestries, including the Salvation of Mankind:





In a letter to her nephew, Traquair writes: "To the artist, be he the poet, painter or musician, the world is a great treasure house, stored with endless material for him to use, teach yourself to match the beauty of red-lipped buds, sunlight through green leaves, the yellow gorse on the hill, the song of the wild birds, so on, step by step, the world opens out. This is life. This is to live, the perfection comes when one's own life is in harmony with this beauty"

This sentiment clearly echoes those of Walter Pater, the great writer and critic and champion of the art pour l'art movement:

The service of philosophy, of speculative culture, towards the human spirit, is to rouse, to startle it to a life of constant and eager observation. Every moment some form grows perfect in hand or face; some tone on the hills or the sea is choicer than the rest; some mood of passion or insight or intellectual excitement is irresistibly real and attractive to us, — for that moment only. Not the fruit of experience, but experience itself, is the end. A counted number of pulses only is given to us of a variegated, dramatic life. How may we see in them all that is to seen in them by the finest senses? How shall we pass most swiftly from point to point, and be present always at the focus where the greatest number of vital forces unite in their purest energy?

To burn always with this hard, gemlike flame, to maintain this ecstasy, is success in life... While all melts under our feet, we may well grasp at any exquisite passion, or any contribution to knowledge that seems by a lifted horizon to set the spirit free for a moment, or any stirring of the senses, strange dyes, strange colours, and curious odours, or work of the artist's hands, or the face of one's friend. Not to discriminate every moment some passionate attitude in those about us, and in the very brilliancy of their gifts some tragic dividing of forces on their ways, is, on this short day of frost and sun, to sleep before evening. With this sense of the splendour of our experience and of its awful brevity, gathering all we are into one desperate effort to see and touch, we shall hardly have time to make theories about the things we see and touch...

-Walter Pater from the Conclusion to The Renaissance; Studies in Art and Poetry

The work by Traquair that I first stumbled upon... and which I still consider to be her singular masterpiece... is the four-panel tapestry, The progress of the Soul, the imagery of which was based upon the short story by Walter Pater, Denys l'Auxerrois. The work is a heady mixture of Christian and Pagan imagery and was begun as as 'homage' to the memory of Pater who had died a year before Traquair started the panels... though at the time, the family tried to downplay the embroidered panels.







This tapestry... brilliantly colored and woven with metallic thread... reminds me of the paintings of various Post-Impressionists... including the Nabis and Gauguin... as well as William Morris, William Blake, and Medieval tapestries:







It is Traquair's mural work, however, that has most served to assure her place in the history of art. The artist painted a number of murals for various religious and charitable institutions. Kellie Castle in Fife dates from as early as the 14th century and has magnificent plaster ceilings, painted paneling and fine furniture designed by Sir Robert Lorimer, a close friend of Traquair. The castle also includes one of the artist's first murals... clearly inspired by the works of Botticelli and Fra Filippo Lippi:



In the only mural project by Traquair realized outside of Scotland, the artist painted a series of images in St Peters Church, Clayworth, Nottinghamshire:









Traquair painted the interiors of four Edinburgh buildings between 1885 and 1901. The song school of St Mary's Cathedral (1888–92) earned Traquair a degree of national recognition. Within a tunnel-vaulted interior, the east wall depicts the cathedral clergy and choir. The south wall depicts Traquair's admired contemporaries such as Dante Gabriel Rosetti, William Holman Hunt, and George Frederic Watts. On the north wall birds and choristers sing together, and the west wall shows the four beasts singing the Sanctus. The Song School is still used daily for practice by the Choristers:









Traquair's masterpiece, however, is in the vast former Catholic Apostolic Church (1893–1901) which has been called by some "Edinburgh’s Sistine Chapel", and "a jewelled crown". It was this work which helped to confirm her international recognition. The deconsecrated church is now known as the "Mansfield Traquair Centre". The marvelous collection of murals is not overly well-known to tourists due to limited access. The building is only open to the public one Sunday afternoon per month. Traquair spent eight years on these murals, making few preparatory drawings before sketching the figures directly onto the walls. This is a particularly stunning achievement given the curved surfaces of the chapel ceiling. The Catholic Apostolic Church, founded in 1835, basically cherry-picked their favorite bits from the Anglican, Roman Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox traditions. As such, one attending a Catholic Apostolic service
would find vividly colored vestments and incense, but but no crucifixes (why dwell on Christ's suffering when you can celebrate his resurrection?). Nor would one find any Last Judgment scenes with demons dragging damned souls down into hell... again, the Last Judgment was to be portrayed as a day of celebration. Traquair's imagery mirrors these religious values or beliefs:































As an artist, I cannot help but envy the artist who need not deal with gallery directors, the whims of collectors, and the games of the contemporary art world... but instead was given the opportunity to spend an extended period of time employed upon a work worthy of her talents and ambitions... and a work of such a scale and purpose as to inspire the artist to rise to the challenge.

Because Traquair refused to accept the traditional boundaries of "fine" and "applied" art she was refused membership of the Royal Scottish Academy, and it was not until 1920 that she was elected an honorary member.

Traquair died in Edinburgh on August 4, 1936 and was buried at Colinton parish church.

[mona amon]

Just coming out of lurking to say how much I enjoyed the Mucha section. I'd never heard of him before. Love decorative art.

I also liked Toshiyuki, especially the mythological beasts. Haven't digested Traquair yet, but I was impressed by the tapestries. I suppose she must have had assistants to do the actual embroidering? I was interested in embroidery at one time but gave it up because it was such a slog!

[stlukesguild]

Traquair, from what I read, was a masterful embroiderer, and spent the years 1895-1902 working on the four-panel tapestries, The Progress of the Soul. There was no suggestion of the use of assistants... which are rarely employed by more modern artists (at least until artists such as Warhol, Koons, and Hirst). The work was described as presenting the image of the human soul, here an ideal young man dressed in animal skin and in harmony with the natural world around him, as he travels through four stages of life. In The Entrance, he is full of hope and enthusiasm, blissfully ignorant of life’s realities. The panels follow him through The Stress and Despair to The Victory, the last embroidery in the series. The figure was based on the character of Denys l’Auxerrois from Imaginary Portraits by English critic and writer Water Pater.

Delving deeper into the iconography, I have found that this brief description misses a lot. It straightforwardly identifies the central character as a young man, though he’s sufficiently androgynous, feminized in appearance... typical of the influence of the female figures in early Pre-Raphaelite painting... but also the ideal beautiful males of Renaissance painting (as in the St. Matthew in DaVinci's Last Supper, which Dan Brown ignorantly argued was Mary Magdalene). You could easily take the figure to be female as well as male... and I admit to having looked at the work both ways.

The beautiful, golden-haired, beardless young man with a lyre immediately draws to mind both Apollo... and his brother/compliment: Dionysus, the God of wine, passion, and ecstasy. One might even imagine him as Orpheus, the legendary musician known for his lyre, who was torn to pieces by the Bacchants, adherents of the cult of Dionysus. The link with Dionysus may have been inspired in part by Titian's masterpiece, Bacchus and Ariadne, housed in the National Gallery of Art, London. Further iconography: the grape vines and the leopard skin reinforces the connection with Dionysus.

It is impossible... and probably wrong-headed to attempt to read any specific, clear, linear narrative to the tapestry. What we can make out is that in the first panel we are presented with an Apollo/Dionysus/Orpheus/Christ-like figure in an Edenic land of natural splendour. This figure travels through a series of challenges, is tested, and eventually emerges triumphant.



In the second panel a serpent (Python, the earth-dragon of Delphi, and Apollo’s enemy in the underworld) encircles Apollo’s feet, while disembodied hands grasp at at pluck the flowers, the birds, the lyre, his animal skin, and the grapevine. The grape vine is broken, flowers plucked, birds killed... and a swan... a bird once sacred to Apollo... savagely bloodies and kills the rabbit from the first panel.



In the third panel we are presented with a tragic view of the aftermath of Apollo/Dionysus/Orpheus/Christ's travails: his leopard skin cloak is torn; Python (now doubled in size) encircles his exhausted body; his hair has become dark as the mood; the grape vines are contrasted with briers and thorns at his feet, the birds look down sadly from above... and his lyre... the instrument of his artistic creation... is now broken.



In the final panel he is presented victorious... in a moment of apotheosis... his feet placed upon a rainbow above the Python. His head encircled in a crown of grape leaves he is embraced, held aloft, and kissed by an angel. But one questions is this a victory through death? Is it an expression of the misunderstood artist... the lover of beauty... attacked by those disembodied hands? The outcome of the Victory is not that they went on to live happily ever after. Quite to the contrary: several critics understand the Victory to be a passionate union in death. And then there are the unmistakable homoerotic undercurrents. As a result of Oscar Wilde's very public trial and sentencing, Walter Pater was placed under a good deal of scrutiny, and was the target of much criticism and hate.



(The reproductions of the individual panels here link to very large scans of the work allowing you to see the actual surface embroidery)

[ftil]

I didn’t know Traquair’s art. I have found a bigger images of The Progress of a Soul.

The Progress of a Soul: The Entrance

https://www.artfinder.com/work/the-p...anna-traquair/



The Progress of a Soul: The Stress

https://www.artfinder.com/work/the-p...anna-traquair/



The Progress of a Soul: Despair

https://www.artfinder.com/work/the-p...anna-traquair/



The Progress of a Soul: The Victory

https://www.artfinder.com/work/the-p...anna-traquair/

The beautiful, golden-haired, beardless young man with a lyre immediately draws to mind both Apollo... and his brother/compliment: Dionysus, the God of wine, passion, and ecstasy.

Well, Dionysus was not a brother of Apollo. His is not his compliment either as both myth are very different.
BTW, you have forgotten that Dionysus was god of madness & hallucination, homosexuality & effeminacy as well as reincarnation and afterlife.

One might even imagine him as Orpheus, the legendary musician known for his lyre, who was torn to pieces by the Bacchants, adherents of the cult of Dionysus.

The myth of Apollo and Orpheus are distinct myths. Orpheus is not mentioned in Homer or Hesiod. The slaying of the serpent Python which guarded the oracular shrine of Delphi by Apollo is one of the famous myth of Apollo. The only connection of Apollo with Orpheus is the lyre and the legend of Orpheus as a founder of the cults to Apollo and Dionysus cults.

and a swan... a bird once sacred to Apollo

Where did you find that? Apollo’s attributes include: a wreath and branch of laurel; bow and quiver; raven; and lyre.

The link with Dionysus may have been inspired in part by Titian's masterpiece, Bacchus and Ariadne, housed in the National Gallery of Art, London. Further iconography: the grape vines and the leopard skin reinforces the connection with Dionysus.

The grape vine and the leopard skin may connect us with Dionysus but I don’t see any connection with the myth of Ariadne and Bacchus.

What we can make out is that in the first panel we are presented with an Apollo/Dionysus/Orpheus/Christ-like figure in an Edenic land of natural splendour.

Is it the painter’s words or educated guesswork? Mixing mythology with Christianity reminds me about poor attempt that of Joseph Campbell.

[stlukesguild]

I didn’t know Traquair’s art. I have found a bigger images of The Progress of a Soul.

Actually... if you clicked on my links in the second post on Traquair you'd find that the reproductions are much larger than the ones you've posted here... and these are shrunk down a good deal from the originals which were some 5000+ pixels tall... much bigger than the computer screen

The beautiful, golden-haired, beardless young man with a lyre immediately draws to mind both Apollo... and his brother/compliment: Dionysus, the God of wine, passion, and ecstasy.

Well, Dionysus was not a brother of Apollo.

Dionysus, according to Greek mythology, is the son of Zeus and the mortal Semele. Apollo is the son of Zeus and Leto. That would seemingly make them half-brothers.

His is not his compliment either as both myth are very different.

Considering that we are talking of mythology and characters that have been employed by a range of writers, there is no single authoritative myth or narrative for either. Apollo and Dionysus, however, have been employed quite often as representing contrasting drives. "Apollonian and Dionysian" are frequently employed as a dichotomy of reason (Apollo) vs passion/emotion (Dionysus) or even light vs dark. Wiki has a brief overview of the Apollo/Dionysus dichotomy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollonian_and_Dionysian

One might even imagine him as Orpheus, the legendary musician known for his lyre, who was torn to pieces by the Bacchants, adherents of the cult of Dionysus.

The myth of Apollo and Orpheus are distinct myths. Orpheus is not mentioned in Homer or Hesiod... The only connection of Apollo with Orpheus is the lyre

You're assuming that Traquair intended to illustrate a specific mythological narrative. Most modern artists are more apt to employ a personal, open-ended approach to mythology. Rilke, in his Sonnets to Orpheus, presents Orpheus as the Apollonian artist... singer of songs of light and reason... which angers the Bacchants resulting in his death.

"Traditionally, Orpheus was the son of a Muse (probably Calliope, the patron of epic poetry) and Oeagrus, a king of Thrace (other versions give Apollo). According to some legends, Apollo gave Orpheus his first lyre."

-Encyclopedia Britannica

"According to a Late Antique summary of Aeschylus's lost play Bassarids, Orpheus at the end of his life disdained the worship of all gods save the sun, whom he called Apollo. One early morning he went to the oracle of Dionysus at Mount Pangaion[42] to salute his god at dawn, but was ripped to shreds by Thracian Maenads for not honoring his previous patron (Dionysus)..."

-Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orpheus

"Medieval folkore put additional spin on the story: in Albrecht Dürer's drawing of Orpheus' death, a ribbon high in the tree above him is lettered Orfeus der erst puseran ("Orpheus, the first sodomite") an interpretation of the passage in Ovid where Orpheus is said to have been "the first of the Thracian people to transfer his love to young boys."

-Wikipedia

This last bit on Orpheus ties in with the homoerotic content relating to Walter Pater.

...and a swan... a bird once sacred to Apollo

Where did you find that? Apollo’s attributes include: a wreath and branch of laurel; bow and quiver; raven; and lyre.

"Sacred to Apollo are the swan (one legend says that Apollo flew on the back of a swan to the land of the Hyperboreans, he would spend the winter months among them), the wolf and the dolphin."

-Encyclopedia Mythica: http://www.pantheon.org/articles/a/apollo.html



-Apollo with his swan, from a Greek vase in the collection of the Museum of Fine Arts, Boston, Massachusetts.



-Apollo allows his friend Hyakinthos ride the oceans on a swan.

The link with Dionysus may have been inspired in part by Titian's masterpiece, Bacchus and Ariadne, housed in the National Gallery of Art, London. Further iconography: the grape vines and the leopard skin reinforces the connection with Dionysus.

The grape vine and the leopard skin may connect us with Dionysus but I don’t see any connection with the myth of Ariadne and Bacchus.

You are thinking in literary terms... in terms of the mythological narrative... whereas artists think first and foremost in visual terms. The Titian painting, Bacchus (Dionysus) and Ariadne would have likely been well-known to Traquair, housed as it was in the National Gallery of London...



... The painting portrays Bacchus as a muscular male nude, leaping through forth from his chariot. One cannot help but recognize the visual similarities with Apollo and his chariot... albeit Dionysus' chariot is here pulled by a pair of leopards. Of course it is all supposition... I cannot say where Traquair drew her visual inspiration. One suspects, however, that this painting... one of four great Titian paintings in Great Britain... the others being Diana and Acteon, The Death of Acteon, and Diana and Callisto... may have been of particular interest to any artist living in Edinburgh where the other three paintings were housed at the time.

What we can make out is that in the first panel we are presented with an Apollo/Dionysus/Orpheus/Christ-like figure in an Edenic land of natural splendour.

Is it the painter’s words or educated guesswork? Mixing mythology with Christianity reminds me about poor attempt that of Joseph Campbell.

Again you are mistaking the thinking of a mythologist with that of an artist. Throughout the whole of art history Apollo and Christ have been figures blurred together. Michelangelo's Christ in the Last Judgment was clearly modeled on images of Apollo. The very concept of the innocent creator/artist made to undergo a series of trials and tribulations, the serpent/Satan, the vines ("I am the true vine"), the briers/thorns, the exhausted/dying figure hung from a tree, and the image of the apotheosis/resurrection complete with the haloed angel all suggest Christian mythology as well as the Greco-Roman legends of Apollo and Dionysus.

[mona amon]

Traquair, from what I read, was a masterful embroiderer, and spent the years 1895-1902 working on the four-panel tapestries, The Progress of the Soul. There was no suggestion of the use of assistants... which are rarely employed by more modern artists (at least until artists such as Warhol, Koons, and Hirst).- StLukes

I also found out that each panel is about 180 X 70 cm - that's quite big. To build up that with tiny little stitches she would have really needed those 7 years and a lot of patience.

[ftil]

Originally posted by stlukesguild
Actually... if you clicked on my links in the second post on Traquair you'd find that the reproductions are much larger than the ones you've posted here... and these are shrunk down a good deal from the originals which were some 5000+ pixels tall... much bigger than the computer screen

You have mentioned the link but it doesn’t work.

Dionysus, according to Greek mythology, is the son of Zeus and the mortal Semele. Apollo is the son of Zeus and Leto. That would seemingly make them half-brothers.

We may say that they are half- brothers but we may get lost counting divine and mortal offsprings of Zeus.

Considering that we are talking of mythology and characters that have been employed by a range of writers, there is no single authoritative myth or narrative for either. Apollo and Dionysus, however, have been employed quite often as representing contrasting drives. "Apollonian and Dionysian" are frequently employed as a dichotomy of reason (Apollo) vs passion/emotion (Dionysus) or even light vs dark. Wiki has a brief overview of the Apollo/Dionysus dichotomy.

I agree that there is no single myth that is consistent as myths have been changing through centuries.
But I prefer to stay with ancient historians regarding mythology not as a philosophical and literary concept.

You're assuming that Traquair intended to illustrate a specific mythological narrative. Most modern artists are more apt to employ a personal, open-ended approach to mythology. Rilke, in his Sonnets to Orpheus, presents Orpheus as the Apollonian artist... singer of songs of light and reason... which angers the Bacchants resulting in his death.

No, I don’t assume anything. I don’t sit in Traquair’s head and I don’t know her intentions. I was talking about myth and not about the artist interpretation.

"Sacred to Apollo are the swan (one legend says that Apollo flew on the back of a swan to the land of the Hyperboreans, he would spend the winter months among them), the wolf and the dolphin."

As I said, I didn’t know about it. Too bad that Encyclopedia Mythica doesn’t provide reference so that I could check it out.

You are thinking in literary terms... in terms of the mythological narrative... whereas artists think first and foremost in visual terms. The Titian painting, Bacchus (Dionysus) and Ariadne would have likely been well-known to Traquair, housed as it was in the National Gallery of London...

But the myth of Ariadne and Bacchus attracted the attention of many painters. I was quite surprised by the number of paintings of Ariadne and Bacchus. Did the painter acknowledge that Titian’s painting was her inspiration?

Again you are mistaking the thinking of a mythologist with that of an artist. Throughout the whole of art history Apollo and Christ have been figures blurred together. Michelangelo's Christ in the Last Judgment was clearly modeled on images of Apollo. The very concept of the innocent creator/artist made to undergo a series of trials and tribulations, the serpent/Satan, the vines ("I am the true vine"), the briers/thorns, the exhausted/dying figure hung from a tree, and the image of the apotheosis/resurrection complete with the haloed angel all suggest Christian mythology as well as the Greco-Roman legends of Apollo and Dionysus.

Again, I don’t sit in her head and I don’t sit in Michelangelo’s head either. But I have noticed that The Last Judgment has a mix of catholic and mythology themes. Well, we may ask why Popes or bishops were fascinated with Greek mythology……but I don’t expect an honest answer.

[Pierre Menard]

Really enjoyed those Toshiyuki pieces. I traveled to Japan earlier in the year and had an absolute blast, so I'm still all things Japanese.

Are there any other Japanese artists you're particularly fond of, Stlukes?

[stlukesguild]

ftil- You have mentioned the link but it doesn’t work.

The link works fine for me. Click on the thumbnails in my second Traquair post.

I agree that there is no single myth that is consistent as myths have been changing through centuries.
But I prefer to stay with ancient historians regarding mythology not as a philosophical and literary concept.

Yet your preferences may not be at all relevant to what the artist is building upon.

But the myth of Ariadne and Bacchus attracted the attention of many painters. I was quite surprised by the number of paintings of Ariadne and Bacchus. Did the painter acknowledge that Titian’s painting was her inspiration?

What I am suggesting is that artists, from my experience, don't tend to seek out paintings based upon a specific subject matter or mythological narrative, but rather because of the artist. Ariadne and Bacchus by Titian is one of 4 great paintings by the Renaissance master housed in collections in Great Britain. During Traquair's lifetime three of these four were to be found in Edinburgh where Traquair was actively working. These paintings have been known and admired for generations by artists and art lovers and counted among the greatest Renaissance paintings outside of Italy. It seems more than likely that an artist living in Edinburgh and an artist deeply enamored of Renaissance art would seek out the 4th great Titian during any visit to London. I certainly know that all four of these paintings would be on my itinerary during any visit to Britain. Is there any irrefutable evidence that Traquair was inspired by the Titian painting. Well I can't say that I have had the opportunity to read through her journals, diaries, letters etc... Of course the field of art history is laden with suppositions with regard to influence. Lacking clear documentary evidence one usually makes it clear that such suppositions are not hard fact which I believe I made clear in my original post: "The link with Dionysus may have been inspired in part by Titian's masterpiece, Bacchus and Ariadne..."

Again, I don’t sit in her head and I don’t sit in Michelangelo’s head either. But I have noticed that The Last Judgment has a mix of catholic and mythology themes. Well, we may ask why Popes or bishops were fascinated with Greek mythology……but I don’t expect an honest answer.

There is a lot more accessible information concerning Michelangelo and the Sistine frescoes (as well as the Renaissance and the Popes) than there is concerning Traquair.

During the Renaissance there was an increasing interest in the art, literature, and philosophy of the ancient Greeks and Romans. Cosimo de' Medici, of the great banking family and ruler of Florence, and his intellectual circle were fascinated with Greco-Roman culture and thought and began an earnest translation and study of classical texts. He also began a serious collection of Greco-Roman art... even financing archaeological digs. Michelangelo attended the Humanist academy which the Lorenzo de' Medici (Cosimo's grandson) had founded along Neo Platonic lines. At the academy, Michelangelo was influenced by many of the leading Neo-Platonic philosophers and writers of the day including Marsilio Ficino, Pico della Mirandola and Poliziano, as well as exposed to original examples of classical-era art.

The Roman Catholic Church and Rome itself during Michelangelo's youth were rather weak and ineffective in contrast to wealthy and powerful city-states such as Florence, Venice, and Milan, to say nothing of France. A great deal of the reasoning behind the Church's embrace of Neo-Platonism and their interest in Greco-Roman culture was due to the desire to legitimize the Church... and Rome... as the rightful heir of the Roman Empire and classical Greece.

The famous Roman sculpture of Apollo known as the Apollo Belvedere...



... was discovered in the 15th century and eventually transferred to the Vatican. During the Renaissance it was considered the single most important example of Roman sculpture. Endless artists made drawings of the work... including Michelangelo. Albrect Durer even based his Adam in the engraving Adam and Eve upon the work:





From the earliest days of Christian art there was a link between Apollo and Christ. The first Christian artists needed to create an entire new iconography to convey the Christian narratives. As such, they often built upon Greco-Roman examples. There were many links between Christ and Apollo:

Christ and Apollo were both the son of God (Yahweh and Zeus)

Both were bringers of light, healers, and teachers.

Like Christ, as Apollo Virotutis, Apollo was worshiped as the benefactor of all mankind.

Christ and Apollo both had the gift of the visionary... the ability to divine the future.

Apollo was quite often portrayed as a shepherd:





This image was transformed into Christ as "The Good Shepherd" by early Christian artists:





Apollo, as the sun god, was often portrayed resplendent... with glowing halo... expressive of his power:



Images of Christ, especially those commonly referred to as "Christ in Majesty", borrowed this same iconography from the Greco-Roman works:



Most of the images of Christ from the early Christian period on through the Byzantine portrayed him as beautiful, muscular, beardless young man... often with his arm raised in address... or in judgment. By the late Middle Ages (Romanesque and Gothic) on through the early Renaissance, Christ was commonly portrayed in the manner more familiar to us today... as the bearded, long-haired figure:



Michelangelo... inspired by Neo-Platonic concepts and enamored of Roman art returned his portrayal to Christ to that based upon Apollo. Working during the period in which the Greco-Roman art, literature, philosophy, etc... was undergoing a revival... in which Neo-Platonic scholars and philosophers attempted to rationalize and validate the merits of Greco-Roman thought and achievement with that of Christianity, Michelangelo returns to the image of Christ rooted in classical models. Not only does he employ elements of the Apollo Belvedere, but he also draws upon the recently unearthed Laocoön:



Michelangelo's Christ is a handsome, muscular, clean-shaven, curly (albeit short-) haired youth. He strides forward asserting his power and raises his arm in unwavering judgment. His own mother, Mary, averts her eyes as the Apollo-like Christ glows with holy fury as he condemns the sinners. The undeniable strength of this Christ in judgment spoke to the power or the aspirations of power of the "true" Church.

[ftil]

The link works fine for me. Click on the thumbnails in my second Traquair post.

Thank you.

Yet your preferences may not be at all relevant to what the artist is building upon.

True. But at the same token, we don’t know what inspired the artist and I am very far to make assumptions.

There is a lot more accessible information concerning Michelangelo and the Sistine frescoes (as well as the Renaissance and the Popes) than there is concerning Traquair.

During the Renaissance there was an increasing interest in the art, literature, and philosophy of the ancient Greeks and Romans. Cosimo de' Medici, of the great banking family and ruler of Florence, and his intellectual circle were fascinated with Greco-Roman culture and thought and began an earnest translation and study of classical texts. He also began a serious collection of Greco-Roman art... even financing archaeological digs. Michelangelo attended the Humanist academy which the Lorenzo de' Medici (Cosimo's grandson) had founded along Neo Platonic lines. At the academy, Michelangelo was influenced by many of the leading Neo-Platonic philosophers and writers of the day including Marsilio Ficino, Pico della Mirandola and Poliziano, as well as exposed to original examples of classical-era art.

The Roman Catholic Church and Rome itself during Michelangelo's youth were rather weak and ineffective in contrast to wealthy and powerful city-states such as Florence, Venice, and Milan, to say nothing of France. A great deal of the reasoning behind the Church's embrace of Neo-Platonism and their interest in Greco-Roman culture was due to the desire to legitimize the Church... and Rome... as the rightful heir of the Roman Empire and classical Greece.

I didn’t think about Traquair when I mentioned Popes and bishops. I know that Medici hired M. Ficino, renaissance magician and occultist to translate Corpus Hermeticum. Ficino’s work was an inspiration for G. Bruno, occultist and magician to study occult. Bruno’s De vinculis in genere is considered a cornerstone of modern political thought. In fact, many Anglo Saxon and Middle European historians and intellectuals consider De vinculis in genere modernity’s most intelligent and insightful political work.
The first to recognize the importance of Bruno’s text were the Rosicrucians, as indicated in the texts of P. Arnold and F. A. Yates on the movement’s history.

Anyway, I have 2 posts on Mythology and Religion in Art thread about Popes and religion in Rome. I have barely scratched the surface but it is enough to raise many questions about a strange fascination of Popes about Greek mythology.

From the earliest days of Christian art there was a link between Apollo and Christ. The first Christian artists needed to create an entire new iconography to convey the Christian narratives. As such, they often built upon Greco-Roman examples. There were many links between Christ and Apollo.

Of course, there are connections. Greek/Roman cults or the cults of Isis and Serapis were a part of religious practices for centuries. Roman Empire couldn’t change the state religion overnight. We may see on many paintings connections with mythology. One of the example is the Crucifixion of the Christ and god Apollo with his chariot and goddess Diana on the top of the paintings or the head of Apollo and Diana we may see below.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...i,_550_ca..JPG

More examples at website of Diego Cuoghi, art historian.
http://sprezzatura.it/Arte/Arte_UFO_eng.htm


The same is happening today as New Age religion has been pushed hard to replace Christianity. It didn’t happen overnight but the preparation to change belief system has started several decades ago. Today we are heavily indoctrinated into occult without our awareness and consent….until we start thinking critically again and get serious about doing research.

BTW, you have made my point.

Both were bringers of light, healers, and teachers.

Well, Lucifer is a bringer of light. According to occult, of course. Madame Blavatsky, the founder of Theosophical Society was very clear as she said:

Excerpt from The Secret Doctrine by H. P. Blavatsky — Vol. 2

VOL. 2, PAGE 233 HOLY SATAN.

The true esoteric view about “Satan,” the opinion held on this subject by the whole philosophic antiquity, is admirably brought out in an appendix, entitled “The Secret of Satan,” to the second edition of Dr. A. Kingsford’s “Perfect Way.” No better and clearer indication of the truth could be offered to the intelligent reader, and it is therefore quoted here at some length: —

“1. And on the seventh day (seventh creation of the Hindus),* there went forth from the presence of God a mighty Angel, full of wrath and consuming, and God gave him the dominion of the outermost sphere.†

2. “Eternity brought forth Time; the Boundless gave birth to Limit; Being descended into generation.”‡

4. “Among the Gods is none like unto him, into whose hands are committed the kingdoms, the power and the glory of the worlds:”

5. “Thrones and empires, the dynasties of kings,§ the fall of nations, the birth of churches, the triumph of Time.”

For, as is said in Hermes, “Satan is the door-keeper of the Temple of the King; he standeth in Solomon’s porch; he holdeth the key of the Sanctuary, that no man enter therein, save the Anointed having the arcanum of Hermes” (v. 20 and 21).

These suggestive and majestic verses had reference with the ancient Egyptians and other civilized peoples of antiquity to the creative and generative light of the Logos (Horus, Brahma, Ahura-Mazda, etc., etc., as primeval manifestations of the ever-unmanifested Principle, e.g., Ain-Soph, Parabrahm, or ZeruanaAkerne — Boundless Time — Kala)

VOL. 2, PAGE 234 THE SECRET DOCTRINE

33. “Satan is the minister of God, Lord of the seven mansions of Hades” . . . .
The seven or Saptaloka of the Earth with the Hindus; for Hades, or the Limbo of Illusion, of which theology makes a region bordering on Hell, is simply our globe, the Earth, and thus Satan is called —
33 “. . . . the angel of the manifest Worlds.”
It is “Satan who is the god of our planet and the only god,” and this without any allusive metaphor to its wickedness and depravity. For he is one with the Logos, “the first son, eldest of the gods,” in the order.

I better go back to my reading and I will visit your thread to learn about painters. I don’t want to derail your thread and I have already broken my rule not to discuss mythology or religion.

[cacian]

Here is one abstract art fact I found earlier.

A painting by abstract artist Mark Rothko has fetched $75.1 million (£47.2m) at an auction in New York.

_64129537_rothko.jpg

Is that a fine art worthy of the money?