Robert Frost: Opinions?

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I've been reading some Frost poems (I guess I've read about fifteen) and find him to be an odd writer (for me at least), because his poems seem to be brilliant or quite lame. Some of them are beautifully written and wonderfully philosophical and introspective . . . and some of them come off as complete kitsch. And some of them, the longer ones in particular, read completely like prose, like he wasn't even trying.

So, what do you all think? I'm curious because I've heard quite a few people cite him as their favorite author. I just don't see it.

(And, no, my subjective opinion doesn't mean I'm saying he's not a great author--I'm saying I don't see it, nothing more.)

[Charles Darnay]

I think I'm on the same page as you here. There are some that I absolutely love - The Road Not Taken, After Apple Picking, The Wood Pile, Out, Out-, Nothing Gold Can Stay, the one that takes place in a burned-down house and I can never remember the title &c. And then he has some that are just....meh. I wouldn't would them bad, but there's nothing much too them. I suppose that is the problem with being so prolific.

[Drkshadow03]

Can you guys give specific examples of Frost poems you have in mind as being lame, kitsch, meh?

[stlukesguild]

Well... I think every post has lesser works. Personally, I think Frost was a marvelous poet... who ranks along with Eliot and Stevens. I think Frost, like Dickinson, is often underestimated because he does indeed use a language that is sometimes prosaic... and deal with topics... such as the lives of the common man... that can be equally dismissed as prosaic. He seems more successful than William Carlos Williams in writing in a verse style that approximates the rhythms of actual spoken American English. A poem such as Home Burial or Mending Wall reveals just how good of a poet Frost could be.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I think I'm on the same page as you here. There are some that I absolutely love - The Road Not Taken, After Apple Picking, The Wood Pile, Out, Out-, Nothing Gold Can Stay, the one that takes place in a burned-down house and I can never remember the title &c. And then he has some that are just....meh. I wouldn't would them bad, but there's nothing much too them. I suppose that is the problem with being so prolific.

Interestingly, a lot of your favorite are also my favorites.

As for poems I haven't liked: "Fire and Ice," "Death of the Hired Man" (which would've worked enter as prose, which is pretty much what it is) and "A Fountain, a Bottle, a Donkey's Ears, and Some Books," from the selection I've read. Calling them kitsch may be a bit strong (and applies mostly to "Fire and Ice"). I didn't think "Home Burial" was all that great, either.

[OrphanPip]

I like Frost, but I would probably agree that I'm not totally blown away by him. It's hard to fault his skill, but he doesn't appeal to me very much on a personal level.

[cafolini]

Acquainted with the night, by Robert Frost


I have been one acquainted with the night.
I have walked out in rain --and back in rain.
I have outwalked the furthest city light.

I have looked down the saddest city lane.
I have passed by the watchman on his beat
And dropped my eyes, unwilling to explain.

I have stood still and stopped the sound of feet
When far away an interrupted cry
Came over houses from another street,

But not to call me back or say good-bye;
And further still at an unearthly height
One luminary clock against the sky

Proclaimed the time was neither wrong nor right.
I have been one acquainted with the night.

[Drkshadow03]

Interestingly, a lot of your favorite are also my favorites.

As for poems I haven't liked: "Fire and Ice," "Death of the Hired Man" (which would've worked enter as prose, which is pretty much what it is) and "A Fountain, a Bottle, a Donkey's Ears, and Some Books," from the selection I've read. Calling them kitsch may be a bit strong (and applies mostly to "Fire and Ice"). I didn't think "Home Burial" was all that great, either.

I always liked "Fire and Ice." You can't go wrong writing about the end of the world. On a quick glance one might simply read this poem as declaring: Hatred and Desire are powerful enough to destroy the world. This doesn't seem like a particularly insightful statement. But with any kind of art it also depends greatly on how they say it. Frost sticks with a common association for desire (seen in Petrarch's sonnets for example) by linking it with the element of fire and links hatred with ice (the freezing of one's heart and others, an interesting way to conceive of hatred symbolically), which is also interesting because they are opposite elements, however, instead of being able to cancel each other out as opposites, they both possess the power to destroy.

The sing-songy feel and casual tone of the poem, which I suspect is why you feel its kitschy, creates a contrast to the melodramatic or tragic tones we often associate with literature about the end of the world. We open with, "Some say . . ." which presents the topic like it were some everyday topic in a newspaper, meanwhile Frost is writing about the end of the world. The lightness of the conversation is continued when the poet actually declares a side: I hold with those who favor fire. He might as well have said it like this: "Oh, I would say the world will probably end in fire."

The casual tone continues as the poet can then calmly speculate about another possibility for his destruction, despite the weightiness of the topic. Then we have the ending when he states for destruction ice also would suffice. "Suffice" is an interesting word choice. He could basically be talking about lawnmower seed: "Ah, yes, Tim William's brand will suffice for our purpose here rather than Green Thumb's." The casual tone not only creates a contrast to other poems which deal with the same topic, but also implies an inevitability, a speaker who has become so jaded by his experiences with desire and hatred that he has come to accept this as part of the human condition, along with the destruction such emotions bring, this is emphasized by the poet presenting personal knowledge of these experiences, ("From what I've tasted of desire" and "I think I know enough of hate") The poet is complacent. He doesn't say there is anything we can do to avoid this fate, unlike many of the original Biblical Apocalypses, which often present hope for the future in times of trouble. So this is yet another way Frost twists previous takes of the end of the world and apocalypses.

The fire and ice (desire and hatred) can be understood on a personal level, in addition, to an actual end of the world scenario. In the same vein as Petrach's desperate longing for Laura or the warnings of various Greek philosophers to control our urges, the strength of our desires can end our world; our hatred can end our world, at least end it metaphorically. When we give in to our desires, such as cheating on a girlfriend and then get caught, we end our world as it has previously existed. The poem is suggesting that our desires cause us misery.

[Pierre Menard]

Great post Drkshadow. Whilst 'Fire and Ice' isn't my favourite Frost, I liked it as well and largely had the same reaction.

The casual tone and rhythm of the poem are a nice contrast to the rather dark theme. It's presented as if it's an inevitability, that we can't change what's coming because we're so controlled by our desires and hate. The casual tone helps highlight this, the feeling is almost of detachment - the acceptance of it as an inevitability.

[The Comedian]

I'm more along the lines of St. Luke's regarding Frost. I've read his complete works several times over the years (he was one of my favorite poets when I was younger), and the poet that I'd liken him to the most is Yeats, actually. His themes only seem simple, which I think is part of his overall brilliance. So many of his poems have this veneer of casual, captured moments in a pastoral setting. But on a closer reading, they are almost always brooding, dense and conflicted.

But his traditional blank-verse style lends itself to casual reading, something that I think was tragically lost in Modernism. And his idea that poetry is a "momentary stay against confusion" . . . a calm, point of insight or clarity in a torpid world has always hit me as meaningful and needed.

[Drkshadow03]

Some say Frost is a genius,
Some say only mediocre.
From what I've managed to acquire,
I hold with those who favor his lyre,
But if I had to consider twice,
I think I know enough of taste,
to know that for some Frost is not so great,
and this would suffice.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Brilliant post, Drk. I always go back and forth on "Fire and Ice." Sometimes I read it and like it, sometimes I don't. Lately it's been the latter. I think it's a great poem for younger readers, though (not saying this to try and somehow diminish its quality).

I'm more along the lines of St. Luke's regarding Frost. I've read his complete works several times over the years (he was one of my favorite poets when I was younger), and the poet that I'd liken him to the most is Yeats, actually. His themes only seem simple, which I think is part of his overall brilliance. So many of his poems have this veneer of casual, captured moments in a pastoral setting. But on a closer reading, they are almost always brooding, dense and conflicted.

But his traditional blank-verse style lends itself to casual reading, something that I think was tragically lost in Modernism. And his idea that poetry is a "momentary stay against confusion" . . . a calm, point of insight or clarity in a torpid world has always hit me as meaningful and needed.

Yeats? I guess I can see a bit of a commonality, but I think Yeats's lyricism is way better (I am sort of a Yeats fanboy, though).

[The Comedian]

I like Yeats quite a bit too -- both Frost and Yeats work with national/traditional themes and poetic methods; both are modernists; both are often darker in theme than their verse indicates; both are master manipulators of sound and language; both vary from fun and light to dark and serious (Yeats; "Brown Penny" is one of my favorites of his, but it is merely for the pleasure of the sound and the delight of the diversion which his poem offers; "Brown Penny" is nothing close to the tone and seriousness of "Second Coming," for instance). Just like I like Frost's "Wind and Window Flower" for its light sound and theme and "Birches" for its profundity and lyricism.

[The Comedian]

Some say Frost is a genius,
Some say only mediocre.
From what I've managed to acquire,
I hold with those who favor his lyre,
But if I had to consider twice,
I think I know enough of taste,
to know that for some Frost is not so great,
and this would suffice.

That's some cold fire poetry right there! :-)

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I like Yeats quite a bit too -- both Frost and Yeats work with national/traditional themes and poetic methods; both are modernists; both are often darker in theme than their verse indicates; both are master manipulators of sound and language; both vary from fun and light to dark and serious (Yeats; "Brown Penny" is one of my favorites of his, but it is merely for the pleasure of the sound and the delight of the diversion which his poem offers; "Brown Penny" is nothing close to the tone and seriousness of "Second Coming," for instance). Just like I like Frost's "Wind and Window Flower" for its light sound and theme and "Birches" for its profundity and lyricism.

Good points all.