Homosexuality

[Calidore]

Okay, seriously, this is just for a laugh because of this part ^ of my post today:

Tonight, when I curled up next to my 4-year-old to read him a bedtime story (and I was literally trying to curl up because my belly still hurts from my last "glutening"), I didn't realize that the neckline to my shirt fell open and my cleavage was showing. My son pointed at my breasts and said, "I like those, Mommy. They're beautiful."

Ha! Good man!

Though what happens if when he's older he decides that he really wants his own pair?

[Shea]

Though what happens if when he's older he decides that he really wants his own pair?

I don’t mean to “prematurely” say that my son could not possibly be gay, because I would never know that till he's much older. But, at the risk of being stereotypical, this kid is all boy. He loves trains, trucks (particularly monster trucks), and all things about firefighters (among other typical “boy” interests). But he does like to look at pretty things (what straight guy doesn't like to see a pretty girl ) and when he gives out hugs, he gravitates toward the ladies. But he does give other males hugs too because, after all, he hugs Daddy and brother every day.

I really hope one of my boys takes an interest in baseball. Growing up, I always wanted to play, but my dad wouldn’t let me.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I could never have my own pair. I'd never get anything done.

[Shea]

I could never have my own pair. I'd never get anything done.

[MarkBastable]

Tonight, when I curled up next to my 4-year-old to read him a bedtime story (and I was literally trying to curl up because my belly still hurts from my last "glutening"), I didn't realize that the neckline to my shirt fell open and my cleavage was showing. My son pointed at my breasts and said, "I like those, Mommy. They're beautiful."

Ah, the first glimmerings of an ambition to be a fashion designer.

[Darcy88]

So much judgement and hate going on in the culture. Heterosexuals divorce half the time but its the small number of potential gay couples who are going to harm the sanctity of marriage? People are dying everywhere from hunger and violence and disease but some people think the gays present a threat to society? Its ludicrous, positively ludicrous. Its petty as well, since the gays are so small in number they are really easy to pick on. Christian homophobes need to re-read their bibles with fresh eyes and see that judgement and hate and exclusion are not what our saviour demands of us.

[Shea]

So much judgement and hate going on in the culture. Heterosexuals divorce half the time but its the small number of potential gay couples who are going to harm the sanctity of marriage? People are dying everywhere from hunger and violence and disease but some people think the gays present a threat to society? Its ludicrous, positively ludicrous. Its petty as well, since the gays are so small in number they are really easy to pick on. Christian homophobes need to re-read their bibles with fresh eyes and see that judgement and hate and exclusion are not what our saviour demands of us.

What the Bible in fact teaches is that we are not to accept sinners, who have no desire to correct their sin, within the worship of God. This passage from 1 Corinthians 5, (where Paul is speaking to the actual members of the church) is what I mean (I’ve underlined key phrases):

9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”

The haters like to ignore the parts that I’ve underlined, and it puts a horrible stain on God’s Word.

[cacian]

Interesting quotes there Shea which brings me to think about what sexually immoral mean because morality is about respect and tolerance.
Immoral is hurting others physically or mentally.
Sexually immoral is rape mollestation unconscented sex and physically injuries through the act of sex.

[Shea]

Interesting quotes there Shea which brings me to think about what sexually immoral mean because morality is about respect and tolerance.
Immoral is hurting others physically or mentally.
Sexually immoral is rape mollestation unconscented sex and physically injuries through the act of sex.

I can see where you’re coming from but there is also a need to explain that there is a difference between social morality and Biblical morality. While homosexuality maybe socially acceptable, it’s not Biblically acceptable. It’s the same thing with drunkenness. Purposely getting drunk may be socially acceptable, but it’s not Biblically acceptable. Here again, the same applies to sex outside of marriage.

But the bottom line for this topic too is that it is also Biblically immoral to cast hate and judgment on someone who does not subject themselves to Biblical authority. Too many people unfortunately miss that.

[OrphanPip]

I don’t mean to “prematurely” say that my son could not possibly be gay, because I would never know that till he's much older. But, at the risk of being stereotypical, this kid is all boy. He loves trains, trucks (particularly monster trucks), and all things about firefighters (among other typical “boy” interests). But he does like to look at pretty things (what straight guy doesn't like to see a pretty girl ) and when he gives out hugs, he gravitates toward the ladies. But he does give other males hugs too because, after all, he hugs Daddy and brother every day.

I really hope one of my boys takes an interest in baseball. Growing up, I always wanted to play, but my dad wouldn’t let me.

That doesn't mean much, I liked trucks and trains too, and played sports. Most boys, even gay ones, have typical boy interests.

[Charles Darnay]

What the Bible in fact teaches is that we are not to accept sinners, who have no desire to correct their sin, within the worship of God. This passage from 1 Corinthians 5, (where Paul is speaking to the actual members of the church) is what I mean (I’ve underlined key phrases):

9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”

The haters like to ignore the parts that I’ve underlined, and it puts a horrible stain on God’s Word.

This is an often overlooked passage for those who try to force their beliefs on ohters, but I do have one qualm with it: it is a bit outdated.

When written, the Church was a voluntary institution for mature, educated men. Therefore, before you entered, you knew the laws, you knew what you were getting into. If you were gay and someone asked you to enter the Christian church, you would probably just say no. "Alright then, enjoy your life of sin, see ya." "Bye" - case closed.

After the Edict of Milan (316AD?) the process of indoctrination began, because Christianity was now the official religion. So no longer did you have the choice to be in or or out of the church, which nullifies the above passage.

I truly believe that Christianity (or all religion in general) would do better to go back to the old ways. Allow children to discover religion when they are ready, not when you are ready. This way, you don't have homosexual Christian children trapped in the church in which their parents are within their divine rights to judge them, and haters in their divine rights to torment them.

But that's just my opinion on the matter.

[Shea]

That doesn't mean much, I liked trucks and trains too, and played sports. Most boys, even gay ones, have typical boy interests.

I know. That’s why I said that I wasn’t trying to prematurely identify his sexual orientation. I was, in all honesty trying to lighten the mood a bit. It was really difficult (albeit necessary) for me to think about the possibility of one of my boys one day turning away from God’s teaching. His out-of-the-blue statement came at the perfect time to strike me as funny.

After the Edict of Milan (316AD?) the process of indoctrination began, because Christianity was now the official religion. So no longer did you have the choice to be in or or out of the church, which nullifies the above passage.

I truly believe that Christianity (or all religion in general) would do better to go back to the old ways. Allow children to discover religion when they are ready, not when you are ready.

I agree with all you’ve said here ^ and I’m not under the Edict of Milan. The group I worship with have gone “back to the old ways.” The Bible is our only authority. We do our best to worship as the 1st century Christian would have. Therefore, the passage I’ve quoted is not nullified for us.

We also do not “baptize” babies. When a child is old enough to make their own conscious and informed decisions, they make the decision whether they want to be baptized. The Bible says repent, believe, and be baptized (Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38 and 41, 8:12 and a bunch more). How is a baby supposed to repent and believe? There are no examples of infant baptisms in the Bible, and frankly, such a practice is more for the parents “peace of mind” than the child.

BTW, I think the 1st century Christians would be more sensitive than to say, “Enjoy your life of sin.”

[BienvenuJDC]

I’m not under the Edict of Milan. The group I worship with have gone “back to the old ways.” The Bible is our only authority. We do our best to worship as the 1st century Christian would have. Therefore, the passage I’ve quoted is not nullified for us.

We also do not “baptize” babies. When a child is old enough to make their own conscious and informed decisions, they make the decision whether they want to be baptized. The Bible says repent, believe, and be baptized (Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38 and 41, 8:12 and a bunch more). How is a baby supposed to repent and believe? There are no examples of infant baptisms in the Bible, and frankly, such a practice is more for the parents “peace of mind” than the child.

BTW, I think the 1st century Christians would be more sensitive than to say, “Enjoy your life of sin.”

I agree 100%.

[cacian]

I can see where you’re coming from but there is also a need to explain that there is a difference between social morality and Biblical morality. While homosexuality maybe socially acceptable, it’s not Biblically acceptable. It’s the same thing with drunkenness. Purposely getting drunk may be socially acceptable, but it’s not Biblically acceptable. Here again, the same applies to sex outside of marriage.

But the bottom line for this topic too is that it is also Biblically immoral to cast hate and judgment on someone who does not subject themselves to Biblical authority. Too many people unfortunately miss that.

I see.
How about gay women do they count as morally sinful too?

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Why wouldn't they?