Precisely. When the author being discussed is a "positive" (read: leftist) one, the comments lean towards, "at least give him a chance". When the author is a "negative" one, the comments lean towards "don't bother."Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandis
If this is a reference to the Ayn Rand thread, that's not the case. It's more of a when an author is widely recognized as good, they should be given a chance. When an author is widely recognized as ****, they can be safely skipped.
There are numerous conservative authors I have no issue recommending (T.S. Eliot, Ezra Pound, Flannery O'Connor, Gene Wolfe, etc.) Ayn Rand just happens to be a useless writer.
Last edited by OrphanPip; 08-15-2012 at 04:02 AM.
"If the national mental illness of the United States is megalomania, that of Canada is paranoid schizophrenia."
- Margaret Atwood
So Rand is "widely recognized as ****"? According to whom? That statement alone exposes your biases.
My point was never that Rand was a good writer but that her books were very influential, a fact that be be verified quantitatively by looking at number of books sold, number of translations made, number of influential people who mention it in their biographies, etc. For that reason alone they should be read. A good critic is one who explains why a book is good or bad, not one who argues that it should not be read.
That's not the kind of influence I care about. Moreover, as a social commentator or political philosopher her influence is slight in comparison to a number of 20th century writers on the left or right. So, if I was interested in the politics and ideas, there are better written articulations of similar points by more influential thinkers.
As a novelist she is sub-par, and I try to judge novels on the basis of them as novels. If number of translations and readers were a measure of literary worth, Harry Potter would be considered a masterpiece.
Also, saying the critics role is not to tell people whether or not the book should be read is not really true. The critic should tell people whether a book is worth reading, but also why. And I said why in that thread. I find her writing to be the quality of a trite bodice ripper that is filled with endless boring polemics.
"If the national mental illness of the United States is megalomania, that of Canada is paranoid schizophrenia."
- Margaret Atwood
How many powerful, influential, or famous men have been influenced by Harry Potter? How many by Rand? That juxtaposition is invalid.
I'm not sure what "the kind of influence I care about" means. Influence is influence, regardless of whether or not you care about it. I am not particularly fond of Hitler's influence, but I wouldn't deny he was influential.
[QUOTE=Summer M;1161949]How many powerful, influential, or famous men have been influenced by Harry Potter? How many by Rand? That juxtaposition is invalid.
I'm not sure what "the kind of influence I care about" means. Influence is influence, regardless of whether or not you care about it. I am not particularly fond of Hitler's influence, but I wouldn't deny he was influential.[/QUOT
How many powerful and influential men have been influenced by scientology? Far more than have been influenced by Rand. Does this give credence or legitimize scientology? Nope; power and influence are often held by men devoid of culture and wisdom, and whose sole talents lie in the accumulation of power and influence. Those talents have nothing to do with wisdom. I personally have enormous talent in bed, that does not mean I am wise. What you are implying is that great talent makes a person wise, which is simply a false notion. Another man may have an enormous talent in the accumulation of wealth, that hardly means he is wise. Socrates had very few talents, and he was put to death by men who had great talents in statesmanship and influence and the accumulation of wealth. Do we declare them wise, and declare him unwise simply because he lacks material talents? Do we call me wise simply because I posses a great talent in a very specific area?
Let us rather look at literature influencing literature. What great author has been influenced by Rand? What great aesthetician has held up Rand and praised her? Silence.
His essay on Montaigne is my favourite 20th century essay. He produced many fine essays; collections are easy to find and not to be missed. After recently reading a long collection of his essays, embittered is not an adjective I would use. He was unhappy about the state of America, but he knew how to enjoy life.
True, but no one was arguing that Rand's work had any credence or legitimacy. You are attacking a straw man. Would you say that Mein kampf is not an important book because Nazism has no credence or legitimacy?How many powerful and influential men have been influenced by scientology? Far more than have been influenced by Rand. Does this give credence or legitimize scientology? Nope
Did the big-mouth-what's-his-name movie star get to where he is because of Scientology? Did it make him a good actor? False analogy, again.
As for your bedroom talents, I'd have to ask for references for those.
I have enormous talents in bed, too. I'm a great sleeper.
"Sleeping Beauty" by Grimm obviously a positive influence.
Fun Fact: Ayn Rand spent the last six months of her life on Social Security and Medicare after a lifetime of condemning both programs. Silly lady.
__________________
"Personal note: When I was a little kid my mother told me not to stare into the sun. So once when I was six, I did. At first the brightness was overwhelming, but I had seen that before. I kept looking, forcing myself not to blink, and then the brightness began to dissolve. My pupils shrunk to pinholes and everything came into focus and for a moment I understood. The doctors didn't know if my eyes would ever heal."
-Pi
You saw that meme too?
There's an Ayn Rand meme?
__________________
"Personal note: When I was a little kid my mother told me not to stare into the sun. So once when I was six, I did. At first the brightness was overwhelming, but I had seen that before. I kept looking, forcing myself not to blink, and then the brightness began to dissolve. My pupils shrunk to pinholes and everything came into focus and for a moment I understood. The doctors didn't know if my eyes would ever heal."
-Pi
Soooooo many. Google "Ayn Rand meme." They're pretty funny.
I'm no Randian (aside from a brief spurt during my teen years) but I don't like when people go with this 'she was a hypocrite' line. All throughout her life, she did not condemn people legitimately using those programs as a way to claim back 'rightfully earned money' that the government 'took/stole'. It's a silly point used to disparage her by people who know little about what she actually said/believed. If they took the time to actually understand her beliefs, they'd find enough to criticise anyway.
Vladimir: (sententious.) To every man his little cross. (He sighs.) Till he dies. (Afterthought.) And is forgotten.
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