Homosexuality

[Bluehound]

"The researchers found that the testosterone compound activated the hypothalamus in homosexual men and heterosexual women, but not heterosexual men. Conversely, the estrogen compound activated the hypothalamus only in heterosexual men."

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n..._gayscent.html

[JuniperWoolf]

Finger ratio also has a correlation. Weird, but cool.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/artic...ale-fingertips

[Bluehound]

Oh apparently I have a masculine finger ratio,lesbian hands.
Well it is half right as I am Bi , guess the other hand must be the straight one

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I think it's rather silly to think its a choice for several reasons. First, like I said, if it is a choice, then we've all had to make the conscious decision to either be gay or not be gay. It's always fun asking a "it's a choice" person, "Okay. So. When did you decide to be straight?" Their bafflement is amusing.

Second, WHY would anyone choose to be gay? They will have no answer for this,

So even if you claim that you are accepting, you promote the idea that homosexuality is a sin, and you allow this idea to spread, one day your kid tells another kid he is going to hell because he is gay, or that gays all go to hell, that kid commits suicide.....I no longer care about your intentions.

You have no idea what she tells her kids. You don't know if she tells them homosexuality is a sin or if she just tells them something like, "Some people think its wrong, others don't; you'll have to decide for yourself."

[Delta40]

Finger ratio also has a correlation. Weird, but cool.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/artic...ale-fingertips

Oh wow that's amazing. Both my ring fingers are longer! I'm gonna be looking at everyone's ring fingers when I go to work tomorrow...

[Charles Darnay]

Second, WHY would anyone choose to be gay? They will have no answer for this,

All I can think of is this

You have no idea what she tells her kids. You don't know if she tells them homosexuality is a sin or if she just tells them something like, "Some people think its wrong, others don't; you'll have to decide for yourself."

I was speaking hypothetically: this is why English needs the personal/impersonal you (such as French and German)

However, based on good evidence, in religious society, such "morals" are quite often passed down in such fashion.

[JuniperWoolf]

Second, WHY would anyone choose to be gay?

Enjoyment?

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

There's a difference between being homosexual and fooling around with someone of the same sex for the fun of it, at least to my eyes.

[Shea]

Okay, Juniper. Your turn.

You're really good at avoiding the primary issue and grinding on selfish defensive details that no one cares about. Address this, if you please:

You value a few passages in an obviously convoluted old book more than you do the physical and mental health of your fellow human beings (and just so that we don't have to waste a few posts clearing up this particular subtext: the belief that homosexuals are at the very least "unclean" or "abominations" and at worst will literally burn for all eternity because of the way they are, and the casual malice inherent in and violence inspired by that belief, obviously causes very much suffering).

If you believe that the Bible is a convoluted old book, that in all honesty is your own issue. I never said that I didn’t value the physical and mental health of my fellow human beings. Just because I believe that it teaches that homosexual acts are a sin doesn’t mean that the lives of people who are gay are less valuable than mine. We’re all born to have trouble with sin. You could say that I’m genetically predisposed to have trouble with fits of rage and envy. An alcoholic is predisposed to have trouble with drunkenness. Have I shown any malice in what I've said? This is not the two-sided issue you seem to think it is, being that of pro-gay and anti-gay. I’m neither of those things. If someone chooses to have a problem with the fact that the Bible calls homosexual acts a sin, then their issue is not with me, it’s with the Bible. So, please don’t attack me for aligning my opinions with a “convoluted old book” that too many anti-gays unfortunately use as a weapon.

But not agreeing with something and calling it a sin are two separate things. Saying you don't agree with something can at least acknowledge that the opposing view has some legitimacy, but you will not partake in it. Labeling it a "sin" is judging it from a superior position and condemning someone as inferior - and this is where, as Juniper alluded to, the line of promoting hate comes from. I don't know if you are very vocal about the matter or not, that is irrelevant. If you want to stay completely out of the matter at least accept that you are just following your own belief and don't judge those who don't share your belief. Part of the right-wing conservative hate stems from the fact that people don't realize the impact of their words, how even just the word sin carries with it a connotation that they may not mean.

Here again, I didn’t label it a sin, the Bible did. If someone has a problem with the word “sin”, please don’t attack me for it. I’m not trying to judge anyone, that’s God’s job. If someone doesn’t share my belief then, that’s okay. Really. I come from a Catholic background, where I was pretty much told by other people what I should “believe.” I enjoy now being able to think for myself, so the last thing I’m going to do is to tell someone else how they should “believe.” Honestly, I probably would never have commented in this thread at all if it weren’t for the fact that I was falsely accused of being a bigot.

In saying that homosexuality is a "sin" (which you did and there's no denying that, so this definately applies to you) you're doing your small part to incite beatings, murder, depression, self-loating, suicide ect. Discuss.

I think my above words cover this. And I still had to reiterate a lot, but you know, whatever.

That whooshing sound you just heard was the point going over your head ( I've used that several times in real life, always gets a laugh). The entire purpose of my post was to say "please stop talking about yourself and rather continue with the conversation at hand, I don't care about your minor personal details and would like to stop talking about them now as they are meaningless and derail the thread." I don't know how I could have made that any clearer.

If you didn’t want me to talk about it, you shouldn’t have brought it up in the first place:

But it's my "opinion" that what you've said in this thread has reflected that you are bigoted, and that in fact you're regurgitating flimsy faux-lighthearted Fox News rhetoric which everyone here has heard a million times and which is universally gagged over and/or mocked in every developed nation which isn't the United States to cover up what you know is nothing more than plain old hateful intolerance. I also "believe" that if you vote to restrict the legal rights of other citizens based on their sexual orientation you're committing a human rights violation which will be abhored by your descendants, in the same way that people today are ashamed of their ancestors who voted against the civil rights of non-whites and women, because in voting (if you do) you're actively taking part in their oppression. Even if you don't vote, you're still going along with a modern social movement which restricts human freedom for your own personal religious reasons, which is deplorable.

You’re entire summary of me here is completely false, so you can’t expect me to ignore it. I might be more inclined to ignore your snarky remarks if you say something like, “Well, yeah, I don’t really know you, so I guess it wasn’t right for me to make false assumptions.”

You have no idea what she tells her kids. You don't know if she tells them homosexuality is a sin or if she just tells them something like, "Some people think its wrong, others don't; you'll have to decide for yourself."

I understand that Darnay was speaking hypothetically, but you're relatively accurate in your latter quotation of me Mutatis. However, my oldest is only 4, so it’s not really applicable at the moment. But most importantly, I want to teach my kids to believe in the Bible, but not use it as a weapon. They need to be courteous of others no matter what differences they might have.

BTW, I found the finger ratio thing to be quite amusing, because (can you guess?)...

v

v

v

v

v

v

mine is masculine!

[cacian]

Oh apparently I have a masculine finger ratio,lesbian hands.
Well it is half right as I am Bi , guess the other hand must be the straight one

Bluehound do you really believe that physical features tell of sexuality?

[cacian]

Enjoyment?

Hmm I doubt it I think it is not a choice but more of compulsive act in this very case. Nothing to do with chosing or being curious.
Actually I do not quite get the concept of curiousity in sex.
Like bi-curious for example but then I never come across gay-curious however it seems quite complex.

[mona amon]

While I believe she has every right to think the way she does, I also think its near impossible to let that belief not influence her actions in some way, conscious or unconscious. ~ Mutatis

Oh come on, beyond putting on a disapproving expression, maybe, or doing an irritating impression of the self righteous pharisee of Luke 18:9-14 at most, I don't see why someone's belief that homosexuality is a sin would influence their actions towards others. There are so many things that some people believe to be a sin - atheism, belonging to different religion to their own, adultery, watching porn - I mean, who cares if they think we'll burn in hell for something, as long as we don't believe in it ourselves?

In saying that homosexuality is a "sin" (which you did and there's no denying that, so this definately applies to you) you're doing your small part to incite beatings, murder, depression, self-loating, suicide ect. Discuss. ~ Juniper

If you are saying that merely saying that homosexuality is a sin incites beatings, murder, suicide etc, then you are basically accusing Shea of hate speech. ("hate speech is any speech, gesture or conduct, writing, or display which is forbidden because it may incite violence or prejudicial action against or by a protected individual or group, or because it disparages or intimidates a protected individual or group" ~ Wikipedia )

Oh, she does have the right to say that homosexuality is a sin. Likewise, I not only have the right but feel an honest sense of responsibility to counter by vocalizing my own opinions as to why such a view is wrong. Everyone must be able to speak plainly, but if what they're saying strikes you as morally wrong it's your obligation to challenge them. Honest and unhindered debate is how a good society reaches sound decisions. ~ Juniper

Debate is good, but it's not debating when you label someone's opinion as hate speech, without showing why it is hate speech. Hate speech is outside the limits of free speech, and is not allowed for obvious reasons. So if you call someone's opinions hate speech, you're denying them the right to express those opinions.

[Bluehound]

Bluehound do you really believe that physical features tell of sexuality?

I was mostly just joking

but I do find the science behind the differences between straight and gay brains very compelling and there does seem to be some kind of link to development in the womb , so why wouldn't that include physical differences?

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I never said it would influence her actions in an extreme manner.

[Charles Darnay]

I did. You have to admit that, albeit not in this case, there is hate speech that serves as a performative utterance with dangerous consequences. So the line becomes: does promoting the perpetual existence of this speech contribute to hate speech.The logical answer is no, but it is still unsettling nonetheless. Hatred and subsequent acts stem from somewhere, don't they. Why do we have to allow hateful rhetoric.

Free speech is touted in nations' constitutions in order to give the people an outlet to speak out against oppression. Unfortunately, this opens the door for the oppressor's themselves. Am I being oppressive for desiring the curtail of free speech in this instance? Possibly.