Cold Ale - The Blokes' Thread!

[MarkBastable]

New washer came today. The door on the old one packed up, which is annoying as the engine etc has worked brilliantly for the six years we've had it. I originally ordered one from Argos, but they could have taken up to 35! days to deliver. Mrs Paulclem nearly had a fit at the prospect of going down to the brook every day and slapping the whites on the stones.

So we cancelled that one and ordered one online on Friday. It came today - free delivery. Brilliant.

It's a roller-$^$*ing-coaster, your life, isn't it? Honestly, you and MrsP pack more thrills into a lifetime than most people are fortunate enough to experience in a fortnight.

(Incidentally, I have never seen a kingfisher. I wasn't entirely sure that they weren't mythical, like unicorns and Joan the Wad and Judas Priest fans.)

[Paulclem]

It's a roller-$^$*ing-coaster, your life, isn't it? Honestly, you and MrsP pack more thrills into a lifetime than most people are fortunate enough to experience in a fortnight.

(Incidentally, I have never seen a kingfisher. I wasn't entirely sure that they weren't mythical, like unicorns and Joan the Wad and Judas Priest fans.)

I know. It's been a slow week. Next week - painting the conservatory and digging the allotment - again.

[Paulclem]

There's been a lot of of snobbery on the Olympic Mania thread. I suppose Emil's initial tone set the pace, but there's no end of posters who want to have a go at the lower end of the cultural spectrum.

I was going to give a long, frank and detailed explanation of what educational opportunities existed in Yorkshire in the 60s and 70s - pointing out where any of us could have caught the royal Ballet and opera - if we could have afforded it.

Mick said it all when he comented "What education?".

So I've come down to the club for a quiet pear cider and to declare that I've never liked ballet or opera, and I don't feel left out by the fact.

[prendrelemick]

I'll get that Paul, and the same for myself, (or should that be me or I - I was never taught grammer) please Parker.

The thing that annoys me is the assumption that I don't like "high" art because I'm ignorant of it, rather than because it is not to my taste.

The mantra "I know what I like" is always ridiculed by cultural highbrows and called ignorance simply because they have no answer to it.

Here you go Paul..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perseids

The next few nights are peak viewing if you have clear skies.
Grab a lawn chair, blanket and flask, lay back and enjoy the show.

.

Excellent - A Gibbous Moon - sounds so poetical.

[Paulclem]

I'll get that Paul, and the same for myself, (or should that be me or I - I was never taught grammer) please Parker.

The thing that annoys me is the assumption that I don't like "high" art because I'm ignorant of it, rather than because it is not to my taste.

The mantra "I know what I like" is always ridiculed by cultural highbrows and called ignorance simply because they have no answer to it.

Cheers. Most welcome.

I agree. Annoying it is. At least I don't have to pretend to appreciate anything.

I wasn't taught grammar either. I learnt it on the job as a teacher.

[MarkBastable]

I think that in order to appreciate any art form, you have to understand its conventions and forms - the context in which it works - because all art is created in the tension between inspiration and form.

And to understand that stuff, you have to put the work in. So to 'get' ballet, you have to know enough about what all those moves 'mean' and how they ought to be done, and whether they are being done well.

And you're only going to put that work in if there's something that grabs you when you first encounter it. Me, I've never been in the least grabbed by ballet - or, actually, by any kind of dance. So I'm not prepared to put the work in - there are other things I'd rather do with my time. This is not to say that ballet is pointless or - actually - that it's more 'highbrow' than any other artform. It just means that there's nothing in it that appeals intrinsically to me.

The problem with Emil's position is that if, as he suggests, all rock music is rubbish, he has to come up with an explanation as to why a lot of highly-intelligent, articulate and art-savvy people like it so much and find value in it. His usual explanation is that we've all been brainwashed by the mass media and we're gullible victims of a huge scam. I don't think that's so - but then, if I were a brainwashed dupe, I would say that, wouldn't I?

I thought of Emil, actually, while I was watching the closing ceremony, and I thought, "The likes of Emil won't understand this at all - and given the purpose of the thing, I'm not sure that's fair. It ought to be easily accessible to him, and me, and my kids, and my mum, and Mo Farah's gran in Somalia."

Even within its own terms I thought it was pretty patchy, I have to say. So I'm not even going to defend it as a celebration of British popular music of the last fifty years.

[prendrelemick]

^You've hit so many nails on the head you could've re-roofed pauls shed!


There is also the content to consider as well as the artform. I went to the ballet when The Northern Ballet was based in Halifax, It was fantastic. I went again to see something else and fell asleep. I love rock music - but not The Doors. I hate jazz - but like.. err..No, I hate Jazz.

But where does taste come from? why does something grab you in the first place.

[Sancho]

I read somewhere that your brain is particularly open to music from around age 15 to around age 25, much as it is particularly receptive to language from toddlerhood to around age 12. (is toddlerhood a real word? El Sancho was dropped on his noggin more than once when he was a toddler.) At any rate, the theory was: most people tend prefer the music they listened to during their late teens - for the rest of their lives.

My dad still listens to Harry James and I'm still cranking Led Zeppelin. He still hates Zep, and hearing Harry James' trumpet makes me want to punt small animals.

[Paulclem]

I agree Mark. I looked into a bit of abstract art in a very patchy way, and came to see what Mondrian, for example, was trying to do. I like it more because of this, but still prefer representational art.

I have no problem with people who like what they like - ballet, opera, rock - it's really none of my business. I applaud people who go with what they like. What I don't like is the "my likes are better than your likes" attitude, particularly when it is well educated and sometimes priviledged people looking down on what they refer to as low culture. I'm afraid it does make my hackles rise somewhat. I shouldn't really as they are ridiculous in their prejudices, but I am aware that certain aspects of culture is really only open to a few. Sure anyone can go to an opera, but, as you said, there's the schooling in the forms and conventions needed. We didn't get that in school in Yorkshire in the 60s and 70s, and I doubt whether many do now.

[Paulclem]

I read somewhere that your brain is particularly open to music from around age 15 to around age 25, much as it is particularly receptive to language from toddlerhood to around age 12. (is toddlerhood a real word? El Sancho was dropped on his noggin more than once when he was a toddler.) At any rate, the theory was: most people tend prefer the music they listened to during their late teens - for the rest of their lives.

My dad still listens to Harry James and I'm still cranking Led Zeppelin. He still hates Zep, and hearing Harry James' trumpet makes me want to punt small animals.

It sounds plausible. Perhaps it's because at those ages we have strong life experiences which are imprinted with the msic at the time. I know as we raised the kids, we didn't have the music on so much.

[Sancho]

It sounds plausible. Perhaps it's because at those ages we have strong life experiences which are imprinted with the msic at the time. I know as we raised the kids, we didn't have the music on so much.

Imprinted is a good word, but I think there's more to it than an association with important life events.* If I'm remembering the article correctly, it had to do with the developing brain, and the brain sort of wiring itself for a certain type of music during those years. Since the age range is fairly well along in brain growth, I'm thinking it's probably the prefrontal cortex that is being imprinted.

I'm sorry I don't remember all the particulars, but I'm willing to bet it was a Discovery Magazine piece by neurologist Dr. Oliver Sacks. He's also got a very readable book out entitled, Musicophilia, all about music and the brain.

*events like finding yourself parked by a lake in 1972 Oldsmobile Delta 88 (her car), late on a Saturday night, both of you in the back seat, both of you mostly naked, Rod Stewart's Maggie May playing on the radio (her station), and wondering how can one guy be so lucky. I still like that song. A couple of years ago, my wife (La Roja) and I went to see Rod Stewart in Vegas, and voila, got lucky again. I'm thinking Mr. Stewart is a freaking aphrodisiac for women of a certain age. Also I've always felt a little guilty about the California Potato Chip I left on the vinyl upholstery of the Olds.

[prendrelemick]

Ahh, the old guilt thing - pleasure must be followed by guilt! That potato chip (metaphor?) is your scourge.

I went to see Rod with a mate and two girls in the early seventies. The rejection afterwards has not put me off him.

[Sancho]

I was trying to stay with the nostalgic flavor of the post by using 70s slang. I first heard a California Potato Chip described in Peter Benchley’s novel, Jaws. It’s kind of gross, but it goes something like this: when you and your special lady friend are swapping genetic material in the back seat of a car, some of it will inevitably drip onto the upholstery. If left unattended and if the seat happens to be vinyl, the next day as the car bakes in the hot sun, it will dry out and curl up into something resembling a potato chip. That’s where the slang falls apart across the pond. How about a Brighton Beach Crisp?

Also, Mick, what were you thinking, taking a girl with scruples to a Rod Stewart show?

[prendrelemick]

^ That is everything I feared it would be. A Brighton Beach one would soon become fungal rather than crispy.


Worst of it was my mate was not disappointed ... and we could hear them!

[Gilliatt Gurgle]

...Next week - painting the conservatory and digging the allotment - again.

I'm a bit behind.
Was it the painting comment that led to high art?
Who knows, now that you’ll be painting the Conservatory you may develop an appreciation for the high arts being around all those dancers and musicians.
Perhaps you can draw inspiration from Paolo Veronese’ frescoes.
A couple I think would go well with the allotment:

Prudence and Manly Virtue




Nobleman in Hunting Attire