Please don't equate culturally appropriate nudity in a gymnasium with forced nudity in a concentration camp.
Please don't equate culturally appropriate nudity in a gymnasium with forced nudity in a concentration camp.
"If the national mental illness of the United States is megalomania, that of Canada is paranoid schizophrenia."
- Margaret Atwood
^ This isn't Sparta. This is MADNESS!Originally Posted by cacian
Please do not misread heavily into what I wrote.
Nudity in a gymnasium is nothing to do with Culture.
It is quite dangerous and might get everyone involded very hurt.
Running nude and exercising is against health and safety hence sporst wear and gears to protect from possible dangers.
An example to explain what I mean is the gladiatores. They were slaves then forced to prepare for gladiatory life and thrown into the arenas with animals.
A gladiatory life was not a choice but a forced upon way of life for the romans ruling class to entertain their hunger for blood and sacrifices.
The same applies to the gymnasts who were made to train and exercise in the nude whilst the rulingclass sat and watched as an entertainment, to pass the time, and then often got engaged in other degrading activities afterwards with the gymnasts if these lattest did not perform to their best.
Spartacus from Sparta and mad from madness? Two very different things?
it may never try
but when it does it sigh
it is just that
good
it fly
No, in Ancient Greece only those in the privileged ruling class had access to the gymnasiums, they were a public space supported by the government usually (like a park would be today). Sport is a leisure activity, poor people didn't get to throw balls around and wrestle to pass away the day.
The Academy, where Plato taught philosophy, was a gymnasium.
"If the national mental illness of the United States is megalomania, that of Canada is paranoid schizophrenia."
- Margaret Atwood
Actually just to clarify, this is a common misconception. The gladiatorial games were mainly an event for the plebeians, the masses, the people. Not to say the aristocracy did not enjoy them, well at least some of them enjoyed it, most of the senators with their philosophy and literature and morals and education did not like it, but tolerated it for one simple reason; to wit, the masses loved the games. Whenever in Rome a war was going badly or the economy was failing, badabing badaboom huge games were held. They would distract the people and keep them happy, it would make the masses docile and bade off unrest.
Think of it like this, imagine if Mitt Romney happened to own the Yankees, or if David Cameron owned Chelsea; that would do wonders for them with the people, and in fact the shrewd populist Berlusconi knew this very well and made constant references to his owning and loving A.C Milan during all his elections. And it undoubtedly swayed the Italian masses to elect a pedophile and sexual maniac on a neronian scale to the highest office of power in Italy.
Augustus, the first real roman emperor realized this very well. Rome had just transitioned from a Republic to an Empire, and he knew the senatorial aristocracy would not tolerate to live under a tyrant after a long tradition of freedom. But what Augustus did know and learn from Caesar; is that as long as a man had the support and love of the masses the aristocracy could do little to harm him. What was one of the first things he did when Emperor? He hosted a massive celebration with gladiatorial games and ensured that the stadium would be filled with the common men, ensuring the poor were all given free tickets. He won their simple-minded love and gained enough time due to the bulwark he had created with the common man, to win over the aristocracy to his side and ensure the cementation of his power.
In short, no the gladiatorial games were not to entertain the elite, they mainly existed because the masses loved their blood and violence and the aristocracy realized how useful the games were to manipulate and control them.
Also while most Gladiators were indeed slaves, many which reached a certain level of fame would earn their freedom and become wealthy men, The son of Marcus Aurelius, Commodus famously was the first and last emperor to take part himself in the games as a gladiator. Slavery in Ancient Rome is a very hard thing to define for a modern reader, one must always remember that slaves were on one had often killed if they displeased their owner and on the other hand that Terence and Trimalchio were both ex-slaves. So very complicated and not that relatable to the more recent forms of slavery such as seen in the 19th century in North America with their African slaves.
Just wanted to clarify that historical mistake.
Actually Spartacus was a Thracian. And currently I am as stoned as a Scythian, so sorry if my previous post was a bit illegible.
I see that is all interesting. I Never heard of Thracia until now.ActuallySpartacus was a Thracian. And currently I am as stoned as a Scythian, so sorry if my previous post was a bit illegible.
I suppose I just went with the movie.
About Scythia I found this I quote:
''In a broader sense, the name "Scythian" has also been used to refer to various peoples seen as similar to the Scythians, or who lived anywhere in the area known as Scythia''
Is this suggesting that Scythians from Scythia are not Scythian?!!
Last edited by cacian; 08-03-2012 at 08:03 AM.
it may never try
but when it does it sigh
it is just that
good
it fly
You guys and your mythology era. Regardless of what was mainstream acceptable. I can bet you they had just as much homosexuality in "both" sexes as we do now.
The same way women had to hide their sexual activities through little clubs and other behind the scenes secret sex societies.
Sex is a funny thing, there are no real rules for it. And the stranger the sex (as long as it is not violating) the better the sex. It's not a new concept, it's just a bit more open now. But even today we have people being killed for being gay, and some of them are just suspected of being gay.
^ Just wait until the Call of Duty kids grow up, yikes.
My wife came across a satirical rebuttal of biblical condemnation of homosexuality which she laughed at and shared with me.
It's well worth a look.
http://www.yuricareport.com/Parody%2...ToDrLaura.html
Awesome, Paul. Going on FB.
Oops I nearly read that as FBI. I was wondering where the I got to.
it may never try
but when it does it sigh
it is just that
good
it fly
Most cultures look at non-straight sexual orientation being equal to crime or sin, their debate on the subject is that sex is supposed to be a reproductive process for humanity and not a thing of pleasure.
When life gets hard... Laugh!
Hi Monamy I guess it all depends onwhat would one define pleasure.
I am guessing those who cannot, for reasons other then theirs, comprehend or realise/achieve pleasure as a result condem and abuse.
There is french saying Moliere in fact
''qui se send morveux se mouche''
What I mean is when one does not comprehend then one condemns. Anger which manifests itself in overpowering others is often mislead for strength when it is in fact the complete lack of it all.
The less one have from what others naturally have the more one want to curse and accuse.
Last edited by cacian; 08-09-2012 at 07:00 AM.
it may never try
but when it does it sigh
it is just that
good
it fly
What do you mean by most? It may be interesting to look at which societies look at it this way, and which don't, and then look at the cultural basis for this.
their debate on the subject is that sex is supposed to be a reproductive process for humanity and not a thing of pleasure
The problem with this is that it is not the experience of humans that it is merely a reproductive act.
Okay, I still don't have time to respond to everything (it doesn't help that I was "glutened" a few days ago). I just wanted to say Turquoise, I agree with you that not everyone has an adjenda and I apologize if I sounded "all or nothing."
My bottom line is, I'm not a biggot because I believe that homosexual acts are a sin. If I was biggoted against sinners, then I'd probably commit suicide because I'm a sinner too. I don't get angry if people don't share my opinions, but I don't like when people put words in my mouth because I believe a certain way. I'm not out to take rights away from anyone.
I do want to address this statement though:
If you'd notice, I also said that I don't have the urge to get drunk. I have about as much chance of being gay as I do of being an alcoholic.
Hwæt! We Gar-Dena in geardagum,/Þeodcuninga þrum gefrunon,/hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon!
Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum,/ monegum mægþum, meodosetla ofteah,/ egsode eorlas, syððan ærest wearð/ feasceaft funden; he þæs frofre gebad,/ weox under wolcnum, weorðmyndum þah,/ oðþæt him æghwylc þara ymbsittendra/ofer hronrade hyran scolde,/gomban gyldan. Þæt wæs god cyning!
It is a form of love like any other, and for that reason alone deserves to be respected.
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