Are Song-Lyrics Poetry ?

[crusoe]

In my opinion yes. Songs accompanied me all my Life,
played on my moods and even influenced the course of my reading.

Here an example by The Cult, Song: True Believers

"I was standing on the mountain, back against the world
Left it all behind me, how my life had turned
Seen so much destruction, the fear upon your skin
Don't let it turn against you, drive you down again"

If you're interested:
http://www.lyricsdepot.com/the-cult/true-believers.html

What about YOU ?

[Monamy]

Well, not 'all' songs, but yes, I'd agree to some level.
Although, peoms still have their unique magic, if you ask me.

[Alexander III]

Sure they are. just so happens that 99% of them are bad poetry. 0.9% mediocre poetry, and 0.01 % are good poetry.

[crusoe]

Sure they are. just so happens that 99% of them are bad poetry. 0.9% mediocre poetry, and 0.01 % are good poetry.

lol, I think we both generalize...and I started it. Stupid me.

[crusoe]

One of my favourite songs deals with Jealousy:

Excerpt from Lou Reed's "Keep away"

You keep your jealousy and your snide remarks to yourself
you know that I'm not seeing anyone else
You just keep your ear down to the ground
yell your head off if you hear a sound
Here's a whistle, a badge and a phone
you can arrest me if I'm not at home
And if I don't keep my word I swear
I'll keep away

Here's some books and a puzzle by Escher
here's Shakespeare's Measure For Measure
Here's a balloon, a rubber band and a bag
why don't you blow them up if you think you've been had
Here's a castle, a paper dragon and a moat
an earring, a toothbrush and a cloak
And if I don't keep my word I swear
I'll keep away

http://www.lyricsdepot.com/lou-reed/keep-away.html

[The Comedian]

I'm tempted to say "no" -- they're not poetry. They're song lyrics, and, therefore, different than poetry. It doesn't mean they're bad, they're just not poetry. The comparison is sort of like saying are comic books novels?

Sure, they share some similarities: characterization, plot, dialogue, . . . . but there's some pretty important things that make them different: Art for example, in comics. And a musical score in songs.

I suppose you could try to isolate the lyric from the music, then pass it off as poetry. But my suspicion is that people enjoy song lyrics BECAUSE they are accompanied by music and voice. Then later they look at the words, maybe even read the words (probably in their minds still following the rhythm and cadences of the singer and the song). But even in this isolation, the song is never truly divorced from the lyric.

[JCamilo]

Not really comedian. He asked about "song lyrics", not the the song. The written lyrics has very little difference from a Poem. He already isloated it. (Poetry is not necessarily present only in poems anyways.)

Your own last sentence about "In their minds" trying to follow the singer while reading is a good effect of the words creating a "illusion" of music.

[The Comedian]

Not really comedian. He asked about "song lyrics", not the the song. The written lyrics has very little difference from a Poem. He already isloated it. (Poetry is not necessarily present only in poems anyways.)

Your own last sentence about "In their minds" trying to follow the singer while reading is a good effect of the words creating a "illusion" of music.

Oh. So, most likely, the OP and others who classify "song lyrics" as poetry go to song lyric web sites to read the lyrics or have books of song lyrics that they read, and the rhythm and music of the of the song lyric comes from the word-smithing of the lyric writer?

It doesn't come from having listened to the song, liking it, then studying the lyrics (often reading the lyric with the music of the song in one's mind, or how the singer sung the song as your inner voice)?

EDIT: I guess I'm still trying to figure this out. If "song lyrics" are poetry, then is the reverse also true?. . . . that poetry is song lyrics? So can I say that I read some of Yeats' "song lyrics"? Or that "I recently purchased a volume of Neruda's song lyrics on Amazon.com."

Or is poetry an umbrella category for a lot things: Epic, sonnet, song lyric. . .?

[Helga]

I think some song lyrics can be considered poetry but like someone before me said there is just something about poetry that makes them unique. So few people read poetry these days and song lyrics seem to have taken their place in some ways.

I can't listen to music if the lyric doesn't 'say' something important.

Also at least here on the ice most of our famous songs are poems turned into music. There are so many CD's with songs to the poems of some famous poet.

[JCamilo]

Oh. So, most likely, the OP and others who classify "song lyrics" as poetry go to song lyric web sites to read the lyrics or have books of song lyrics that they read, and the rhythm and music of the of the song lyric comes from the word-smithing of the lyric writer?

What define an object is not the first form those objects are first approached. Several poems became popular because many people knew it in oral form and not written, and this include even The Comedy and Orlando Furioso. Mallarme himself used to recite his poems always before allowing it to be published. Song Lyrics work well. If they are printed and you do not listen to the music while reading, then you do not have music either, do you?

EDIT: I guess I'm still trying to figure this out. If "song lyrics" are poetry, then is the reverse also true?. . . . that poetry is song lyrics? So can I say that I read some of Yeats' "song lyrics"? Or that "I recently purchased a volume of Neruda's song lyrics on Amazon.com."

Really? Because many Yeats poems and Neruda are indeed called Lyrics or Lyrical, aren't them. They are not song lyrics just because they weren't created primally to be a song. And just like a shark is a fish, but not all fishes are a shark... Oh, I guess what you are trying hard to figure should not be so hard, right?

Or is poetry an umbrella category for a lot things: Epic, sonnet, song lyric. . .?

Really? Epic poetry is Poetry of course, Sonnet is poetry of course, specially if you are using poetry as textual form. If you are using as the use of language, you will get several prose works who are poetry. Sometimes poetry may reffer to even unwritten texts, as the language can be poetic if you talk, right? Writen song lyrics work as poems, any could just cheek Vinicius de Moraes poetry and song writting to see the line is to thin.

In the end, Music has poetry, it is not a literary genre (does not even needs, it is a older and big art by itself) if you stop listening The Beatles. You must read it (be good or bad), there is differneces, but if you get a published book with Bob Dylan lyrics to read, what you are doing?

[Alexander III]

I'm tempted to say "no" -- they're not poetry. They're song lyrics, and, therefore, different than poetry. It doesn't mean they're bad, they're just not poetry. The comparison is sort of like saying are comic books novels?

Sure, they share some similarities: characterization, plot, dialogue, . . . . but there's some pretty important things that make them different: Art for example, in comics. And a musical score in songs.

I suppose you could try to isolate the lyric from the music, then pass it off as poetry. But my suspicion is that people enjoy song lyrics BECAUSE they are accompanied by music and voice. Then later they look at the words, maybe even read the words (probably in their minds still following the rhythm and cadences of the singer and the song). But even in this isolation, the song is never truly divorced from the lyric.

But the thing is, if one says that song lyrics are not poetry then what about Greek poetry. In ancient greece poetry was sung accompanied by a lute or lyre or sometimes and orchestra, it was intended as a performance art, the Illiad and Odessy in truth were song lyrics. But they are great because on paper they stand out as amazing poetry.

That is why I believe that song lyrics must be classified as poetry. The simple fact is that 99% of song lyrics without music are crap poetry. Of-course there are exemptions like Bob Dylan whose songs stand out as good poetry on paper.

[Revolte]

Sometimes, but the bar has been raised a long time ago with Neutral Milk Hotel:

Song Against Sex

And the first one tore a picture
Of a dead and hanging man
Who was kissing foreign fishes
That flew right out from this hands
And when I put my arms around him
I felt the blushing blood run through my cheeks
And an eeriness surrounded when his tongue began to speak
And he said...Oh boy you are so pretty
Enough to wrap tight in rice-paper string...
And when I finally kissed him the whole world began to ring
Lost like a bell that's tipping over
With two cracks along both sides
And I knew the world was over so I took a look outside
And watched the fires that were reaching
Up to the weather vane and the tops of trees
And the waiting scene and the sunday dream
They're all waiting here for me

Deli markets with their flower stands
Pretty girls and the burning men
Hanging out on the hooks next to the window displays
And I took out my tongue twice removed from my face
Across a bridge and across the mountains
Threw a nickel in a fountain
To save my soul from all these troubled times
And all the drugs that I don't have the guts to take
To soothe my mind so I'm always sober
Always aching, always heading towards
Mass suicide, occult figurines
And wasted gas-station attendents
Attending to their jobs
And a nice drive in the country
Finds a nice cliff to drop off
Oh when this world just gets so grating
All the grittiness of life
But don't take those pills your boyfriend gave you
You're too wonderful to die

From anything we could call loving
Any love worth living for
So I'll sleep out in the gutter
You can sleep here on the floor
And when I wake up in the morning
I forgot to lock the door
Because with a match that's mean and some gasoline
You won't see me anymore


Defiance Ohio has some good writing too:

Calling Old Friends

The roads that stretch ahead of us, the roads that led us here;
singing traditional renditions of the songs we sang last year.
And though these times have made us stronger, the outcome's no more clear.

Calling old friends to make sure they're real,
Talking, talking just to feel
That sense of home you lost when you left last year.
Distance is just numbers on a dashboard, hours thinking about
Nothing but the transmission stutter you fear.

I remember what you whispered in my ear,
And all those things we tried so hard to never have to hear,
Like "kids tighten up, start saving for the golden years."
Well, that picture it fades day by day and the outcome's not so clear.

Don't think I'll see you around this winter,
And my tongue's stuck full of splinters,
'Cause I'm embarrassed to admit what I've been thinking.
Well, hope keeps some afloat,
But for me it's no life boat.
The tighter I hold on the deeper down I'm sinking.

I tried to put my finger on it, but I gave it my whole arm.
I reached out with good intentions, but it only did more harm.
We find ourselves alone ever since the day we're born,
And we seek someone to sew sutures in the places where we're torn.

[The Comedian]

Oh, I guess what you are trying hard to figure should not be so hard, right?

Okay, so song lyrics are poetry, prose is poetry, music "has poetry but is not a literary genre", talking is sometimes poetry. . . . .

I don't disagree that "song lyrics work as poetry". They do. But I'm not sure if they are poetry. I mean, I've used a rock to hammer in a nail, but that rock was never a hammer. I just used it in place of one.

Maybe I'm just getting the adjective, "poetic" with the noun "poetry" mixed up. . . .I'll have to keep thinkin' about it.

In the mean time, I think I'll go to my song lyric shelf, pull down a copy of The Divine Comedy and read some of the best song lyrics I've read.

[The Comedian]

That is why I believe that song lyrics must be classified as poetry. The simple fact is that 99% of song lyrics without music are crap poetry. Of-course there are exemptions like Bob Dylan whose songs stand out as good poetry on paper.

That's what I was wondering -- if song lyrics are a type of poetry. . . . .like other types of poetry. If so, then poetry is the most popular genre of literary experience currently in the world. Hell, people plug themselves into battery powered poetry blasters (iPods) all day long, casting their day and their their hours in the poetry of drums, guitars, and voice.

[JCamilo]

Poetry is the most popular genre of literature in the world if you do not consider shopping lists.