What Attracts You First? Poll #2 for Men Only

[Emil Miller]

When I was in France and London, the consistency of body weight, for men and women, was much more consistent. I was actually pretty blown away by the lack of fat people. I can't imagine what people who come to America must think. We definitely live up to being the fattest nation in the world.

The number of large bellies on men and huge backsides on women in the UK is a national disgrace. I'm surprised you didn't notice them, I see them every day and it's not a pretty sight. The superabundance of cheap food in the USA probably accounts for the amount of fat that the population is carrying but food is often cited as being too expensive in the UK and it may be the cheaper fast food outlets that are the cause of the problem here.

[stlukesguild]

It is sad, isn't it? I kind of liked those Dove soap ads where they showed "real women," and not models. I remember reading an editorial that disparaged those ads-it was written by a woman, btw-and she claimed that we all understood the artifice behind most advertising and that showing real women in ads simply wasn't necessary.

And have you come across the controversy concerning this ad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyCuITBD6dk

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/b...hAuT9k4CeFKixI

Isn't there too much attention given by the media to the stick insect look ?
The above equation doesn't stack up because if women are being overwhelmingly pressured into looking very thin, why is the national average obviously overweight?:

The presumption of the girl on the right... and probably in the middle as well... as being "overweight" is based upon your own fantasies of the ideal waif-like Asian girl.

Is this girl overweight?






By many of today's standards of the ideal female body she would be considered "overweight"... and undoubtedly by the standards of today's fashion and film industries she would probably be considered "obese"... in spite of being THE sex symbol of an entire generation.

When I was in France and London, the consistency of body weight, for men and women, was much more consistent.

I doubt that your perception is reality. France and England are both wealthy, modern, Western nations and face the same problems with weight as the US: an overabundance of inexpensive food and a sedentary life-style related to the fact that much of our jobs no longer involve strenuous physical labor. Of course your perception of a more fit population may relate to the urban environments of London and Paris. I saw and experienced the same thing in New York City when I lived there. The reality of the city demands that people walk a lot more than they do elsewhere. Here in Cleveland there is no such thing as difficulty in finding parking; the city is so sprawled out and lacking in the sort of public transportation as New York has that you simply drive everywhere. In New York, parking can be $30 or $40 (or more) for a single day, while spaces in parking garages are leased monthly at prices equal to what you might pay for an apartment elsewhere. I walked everywhere and lost so much weight that my then-future wife thought I looked "emaciated" and was starving when I came back to visit.

My mom's 5'1, and she's 120 lbs. According to this, she's just missed being considered obese.

Look at the chart again. At 120 lbs she falls within the upper range of "normal"... just below "overweight" and well below "obese" (at 160 lbs at 5'1").

[Emil Miller]

THE[/I] sex symbol of an entire generation.

My acquaintance with waif-like Asian girls has not been fantasy, many of them they really are like that.

As for Marilyn Monroe, I was never attracted to her as it wasn't so much the sex factor as the Max Factor that made her. Too much peroxide and lipstick for my taste and if she's thought of as being overweight by today's standards it's because attitudes change. As someone who has often posted pictures of Rubens ideal women I'm sure you will agree that females who could understudy Moby Dick are not exactly desirable by today's standards. I always feel sorry for the horses when I see The Rape of the Sabines.

[Darcy88]

Isn't there too much attention given by the media to the stick insect look ?
The above equation doesn't stack up because if women are being overwhelmingly pressured into looking very thin, why is the national average obviously overweight?:

The presumption of the girl on the right... and probably in the middle as well... as being "overweight" is based upon your own fantasies of the ideal waif-like Asian girl.

Is this girl overweight?






By many of today's standards of the ideal female body she would be considered "overweight"... and undoubtedly by the standards of today's fashion and film industries she would probably be considered "obese"... in spite of being THE sex symbol of an entire generation.

That's what I'm talking about. FIGURE. She had it. Lots of women here have it, women of all races including my own, but they are considered overweight and its ridiculous. Some of the girls I've dated were afraid to eat. They ate like birds literally. They thought I was just being nice when I complimented them on their figures. They did not get it. It was sad. It is sad.

Knowing the different between being fat and having a nice figure is something a lot of women have problems with. And the reason they are afraid of having full figures is because its easy to go from that to full fledged obsesity. When I date a girl I instinctively get her to do two thing - eat lots and exercise lots. I eat often 10 000 calories a day and weigh what I am supposed to weigh, have very little body fat, because I move around so much be it by exercise or good old fashioned hard work in the shop.

[Revolte]

Haha, they're doing roofing in phase six in town right now. In torn jeans. Topless.

You might need an operation before you could score one of those.

[Revolte]

That's what I'm talking about. FIGURE. She had it. Lots of women here have it, women of all races including my own, but they are considered overweight and its ridiculous. Some of the girls I've dated were afraid to eat. They ate like birds literally. They thought I was just being nice when I complimented them on their figures. They did not get it. It was sad. It is sad.

I've come across a lot of that too. To an extent I get it, I've had my battles with anorexia. But it's almost annoying to compliment a girl then get the response "Why, I'm fat..." and then trying to convince them that they look good and I don't see them as fat. It never works, of course.

Personally, I don't prefer scrawny girls. I like to cuddle, so I want something to hold. Also, the sex tends to be better with something other then bones. Right? I think so anyway.

I think the women's liberation movement got a little soft a little too soon. There is still a long way to go, in my opinion. Of course, sex sells and so do the outcomes of horrid model standards.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Also my name isn't Dave MM; it's Robine.

Well, I just remembered you used to go by "TheDave." "Robine" is sort of an odd name for a guy, isn't it?

The number of large bellies on men and huge backsides on women in the UK is a national disgrace. I'm surprised you didn't notice them, I see them every day and it's not a pretty sight. The superabundance of cheap food in the USA probably accounts for the amount of fat that the population is carrying but food is often cited as being too expensive in the UK and it may be the cheaper fast food outlets that are the cause of the problem here.

I didn't see them.

I don't see how what I saw was out of line with "reality," unless one is saying I'm lying. I was in Paris and London, and I barely saw any overweight people. There were a few, sure, but I don't think I ever saw a 400 or 500 pounder, which is a daily sight in the US. Now, I never travelled out of the major cities other than for a few tourist destinations--Shakespeare's home, Oxford, Versailles, etc.--so maybe it's different elsewhere, but I can't comment on what I didn't see.

Edit: After looking up statistics, it does look like the UK has its fair share of fat people. They have the second largest percentage in the world of obese people (still have a long way to overtake us, though). London must not be an accurate representation of the country as a whole. France, on the other hand, isn't that high on the list, so I don't think what I saw was too far off there. Maybe it's all the smoking.

Edit 2: Check this out. I found this article about how much all humanity would weigh if they got on the scale. I found this quote particularly interesting:

North America has only 6 percent of the world's population, but 34 percent all the human biomass in the world that is due to obesity, the researchers said. In contrast, Asia has 61 percent of the world's population, but only 13 percent of the world's biomass due to*obesity

So, our fat people are way fatter than anyone else's. England may have a large percentage of obese people, but your 250 pounder is still put in the same category as our 400 pounder, which isn't rare.

[JuniperWoolf]

^Yours won't open on my computer so I found another one.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/he...health-obesity

Lowest is Japan at 3.2% which figures, they drill exercise and eat pretty healthy. I wonder why Mexico is second. Canada is quite a bit lower than America and the UK, which might be why I think this issue is being overblown by the American and UK members. I rarely see large people, there are dangerously overweight people in town and I could list them on my fingers.

As for Marilyn Monroe, I was never attracted to her as it wasn't so much the sex factor as the Max Factor that made her. Too much peroxide and lipstick for my taste and if she's thought of as being overweight by today's standards it's because attitudes change.

Please, Marilyn Monroe is still drooled over. Her body is mouthwatering, I've seen many more posters of her on walls in my life than I have Twiggy (or waif-like shapes). It's not the "max factor" either, there are much more extreme looks out there nowadays and yet, Monroe's image is still everywhere. So are women whose bodies resemble hers, soft thighs that touch, large breasts, hips that won't stab you, ect.

Look at the chart again. At 120 lbs she falls within the upper range of "normal"... just below "overweight" and well below "obese" (at 160 lbs at 5'1").

I was using "obese" as a synonym for "overweight," I didn't even notice that the chart differentiated between the two because I admit, I just looked at the chart to find people I know. For my mom to be anywhere near anything considered "overweight" is insane, look at her, it feels like I'm going to break her when I hug her. My friend Sean is in the upper yellow, which is funny because he's an athlete type. He's a bit solid and cubical, but he's a hockey player, they're all solid and cubical. Me at 5'5" and 126lbs, I'm south of the main "normal" line which is a pain in the ***. Like I don't know I'm small and weak, I'm healthy damn it! I wonder how many people have got complexes from this chart.

[Revolte]

When it comes to fat, it's possible to be obese and healthy. The danger is in storing fat where fat shouldn't be stored, like your heart.

In terms of attraction, it differs around the globe.

A little less focus on how fat people are might do a lot of good. It certainly doesn't help anyone to feel like they aren't good enough. There is more to health and weight then food intake, we shouldn't forget that just because it's the popular thing to do to attack fast food outlets.

And fast food really isn't as cheep as people like to think, it's addictive.

I'm vegetarian, so I rarely go to fast food joints. But I do on occasion and Burger King uses morning star patties, which are relevantly low in calories. And come in packages of four for less then getting the meal at BK costs.

I highly doubt people go to fast food places because it's cheaper. Let's say they eat three meals a day. That's at least 15-20 bucks a day just to eat. In the long run, actually buying the foods yourself and cooking them will be cheaper. They go because the food is loaded with addictive chemicals. Cheese alone is addictive. And because it's easy and available around every corner.

[Emil Miller]

I don't see how what I saw was out of line with "reality," unless one is saying I'm lying. I was in Paris and London, and I barely saw any overweight people. There were a few, sure, but I don't think I ever saw a 400 or 500 pounder, which is a daily sight in the US. Now, I never travelled out of the major cities other than for a few tourist destinations--Shakespeare's home, Oxford, Versailles, etc.--so maybe it's different elsewhere, but I can't comment on what I didn't see.

Edit: After looking up statistics, it does look like the UK has its fair share of fat people. They have the second largest percentage in the world of obese people (still have a long way to overtake us, though). London must not be an accurate representation of the country as a whole. France, on the other hand, isn't that high on the list, so I don't think what I saw was too far off there. Maybe it's all the smoking.

Edit 2: Check this out. I found this article about how much all humanity would weigh if they got on the scale. I found this quote particularly interesting:

North America has only 6 percent of the world's population, but 34 percent all the human biomass in the world that is due to obesity, the researchers said. In contrast, Asia has 61 percent of the world's population, but only 13 percent of the world's biomass due to*obesity

So, our fat people are way fatter than anyone else's. England may have a large percentage of obese people, but your 250 pounder is still put in the same category as our 400 pounder, which isn't rare.

I don't rely on statistics but I think it is generally recognised that the USA has a inordinate number of fat people and that the numbers you have given are probably correct. It doesn't surprise me to find that the UK is second in the fattie league, nor that France is relatively fat free. The French have a food fetish which means that they are fussy about what they eat; preferring to eat choice dishes rather than what comes most readily to hand as it's taste rather than quantity that they go for in the culinary stakes. Of course there are the usual exceptions and I have seen the occasional porker in various parts of France but the women in particular look after their figure.

[JuniperWoolf]

I don't rely on statistics but I think it is generally recognised that the USA has a inordinate number of fat people and that the numbers you have given are probably correct.

Hahaha, statistics are unreliable and must be wrong unless they support your opinion? That's such an unbelievably prevalent cliché of any person who strongly and unyieldingly aligns with one side or the other of the political spectrum, and it's hilarious that you just came right out and said it, just like that.

[Emil Miller]

Hahaha, statistics are unreliable and must be wrong unless they support your opinion? That's such an unbelievably prevalent cliché of any person who strongly and unyieldingly aligns with one side or the other of the political spectrum, and it's hilarious that you just came right out and said it, just like that.

As is often the case, you have misread the post.

[JuniperWoolf]

As is often the case, you have misread the post.

"I don't usually trust statistics, but this one matches what I and the general public believe so they're probably correct," would that be an appropriate paraphrasal? Do you not see how it's comical that you just said that, being who you are? They might have just pulled random numbers out of their *** based on popular public opinion, for all you know. "Well America's fattest, so let's say they're 35% per capita obese, and everyone knows Britian is chunky, we'll make them 28%" What is it that makes these specific numbers "probably correct" to you, if you believe that statistical information is unreliable as a whole?

But hey, I'm not saying that America doesn't have more overweight people per capita: I do put stock in statistics, particularly if they're from a very reliable source such as those collected by the United Nations Statistical Commission. I can't even open Mutatis's link, so they might even be from the UNSC. I just thought it was funny to see a real-live demonstration of such a prevalent cliché.

[Babyguile]

The message an action or inaction conveys comes secondary to safety, always.

I agree, and I wasn't saying that I didn't agree with prostitution being legalized full stop, I was talking about the wisdom of legalising at the time of the Olympics (your arguments, incidently, are more convincing than the overweight pimp we had on our news programmes).

Is there really anyone who likes that whole skinny-as-sticks supermodel look, really? People aren’t sheep, they can’t be run by influence, and also natural inborn attraction can’t be overridden by influence. Men lust for roundness and squishiness in women, that’s their primal brain telling them “she’s healthy.”

If people aren't run by influence then account for the number of women in my country who are spending thousands of pounds during a time of severe economic austerity to mutiliate, and stick foreign objects into, their bodies. You are giving young people too much credit. Take a look at the world we live in. Free will is impeded at every turn.

The reason men are not influenced by these images is because these images are not meant to be sexually appealing. So of course, young men are indifferent towards them.

They are targeted towards young women, or rather groups of young women, and the message is that skinny equals success and wealth. Again it is nott sexual.

Were prostitution to be legalized we can’t tell how public perception of women would change, but who’s to say the change wouldn’t be positive? If “whores” weren’t an illegal social impurity to be scorned or even imprisoned? Our perception of the profession in general would change if they could be legitimate businesspeople who run their own lives, we can't predict the changes that legalizing prostitution would have on society but I'd put a lot of money on them being positive.

I agree!

[stlukesguild]

Please, Marilyn Monroe is still drooled over. Her body is mouthwatering, I've seen many more posters of her on walls in my life than I have Twiggy (or waif-like shapes). It's not the "max factor" either, there are much more extreme looks out there nowadays and yet, Monroe's image is still everywhere.

Yes... like any Hollywood actress of the era... or today... Marilyn could be seen all dolled up "max factor" style...



but she could also come off as stunningly elegant...



... and she still looked damn good... even with the make-up down-played...





... or even in her day to day life...



She died before I was born and if she were still alive she'd be old enough to have been my grandmothers, but she still looks hot in "Some Like It Hot."