Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 52

Thread: The Dearth of Comedy?

  1. #1
    Artist and Bibliophile stlukesguild's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    The USA... or thereabouts
    Posts
    6,083
    Blog Entries
    78

    The Dearth of Comedy?

    Recently I came upon this essay on the subject of the dominance of tragedy in Western literature:

    http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/ma...iterary-novel/

    I must say I was intrigued with a good deal of the ideas here... both as they apply to literature... but also my own field of the visual arts/painting:

    "The Greeks understood that comedy (the gods' view of life) is superior to tragedy (the merely human). But since the middle ages, western culture has overvalued the tragic and undervalued the comic. This is why fiction today is so full of anxiety and suffering. It's time writers got back to the serious business of making us laugh. What is wrong with the modern literary novel? Why is it so worthy and dull? Why is it so anxious? Why is it so bloody boring?

    Brilliant comedies never win the best film Oscar. The Booker prize leans toward the tragic. In 1984, Martin Amis reinvented Rabelais in his comic masterpiece Money. The best English novel of the 1980s, it didn't even make the shortlist. Anita Brookner won that year, for Hotel du Lac, written, as the Observer put it, "with a beautiful grave formality."

    The fault is in the culture. But it is also internalised in the writers, who self-limit and self-censor. If the subject is big, difficult and serious, the writer tends to believe the treatment must be in the tragic mode. When Amis addressed the Holocaust in his minor novel Time's Arrow (1991), he switched off the jokes, and the energy, and was rewarded with his only Booker shortlisting.


    The tragic bias remains deep in the industry. And the more original the comic masterpiece, the harder it is to get it through the filters of western commercial publishing. Flann O'Brien's The Third Policeman, one of Ireland's three greatest novels, could not find a publisher in the author's lifetime. John Kennedy Toole's A Confederacy of Dunces was rejected by 36 publishers, and Toole eventually killed himself. Only a decade after his death was it published.

    What makes it much worse is that it is now being coached, reinforced. All of the writers on the Granta list attended university creative writing programmes. All, in other words, have submitted to authority. This is a catastrophe for them as novelists.

    The novel cannot submit to authority.


    But the universities are authority or they are nothing. As the west has grown secular, the university has, quite organically, taken over from the church as a cross-border entity claiming universality, claiming to influence the powerful but not to wield power. "Education" is the excuse for a self-perpetuating power structure now, just as "religion" was the excuse then. The modern universities could claim to have no single ideology, but the same could be said of the Vatican under the Medicis, or the Borgias.

    The problem is not that the universities are malevolent; they are not. They have no sinister intent in taking over the novel, professionalising it, academicising it. Like most of those who colonise territories that were getting on fine without them, they believe they do no great damage, they believe it's for the novel's good, they believe they are benign, idealistic and quite a bit cleverer than the natives. As ever, none of these beliefs is entirely true.

    The literary novel, by accepting the embrace of the universities, has moved inside the establishment and lost contact with what made it vital. It has, as a result, also lost the mass audience enjoyed by Twain and Dickens. The literary novel—born in Cervantes's prison cell, continued in cellars, bars and rented rooms by Dostoevsky, Joyce and Beckett—is now being written from on high.


    Professionalisation will make poor writers adequate. And will make potentially great writers adequate. Great novelists write for their peers. Poor novelists write for their teachers. If you must please the older generation to pass (a student writing for an older teacher, a teacher writing to secure tenure), you end up with cautious, old-fashioned novels. Worse, the system turns peers into teachers. Destroyed as writers, many are immediately re-employed, teaching creative writing. This is a Ponzi scheme.

    A comparison between The Simpsons and a soap opera is instructive. A soap opera is trapped inside the rules of the format; all soaps resemble each other (like psychologically plausible realist novels). What the makers of The Simpsons did was take a soap opera and put a frame around it: "this is a cartoon about a soap opera." This freed them from the need to map its event-rate on to real life: they could map its event-rate on to cartoon life. A fast event-rate is inherently comic, so the tone is, of necessity, comic. But that is not to say it isn't serious. The Simpsons is profoundly serious. And profoundly comic. Like Aristophanes, debating the war between Athens and Sparta by writing about a sex strike by the women of Athens and beyond.

    With its cartoon event-rate, a classic series of The Simpsons has more ideas over a broader cultural range than any novel written the same year. The speed, the density of information, the range of reference; the quantity, quality and rich humanity of the jokes—they make almost all contemporary novels seem slow, dour, monotonous and almost empty of ideas.


    So steal from The Simpsons, not Henry James.

    It's not that contemporary literary novels are bad. Line by line, book by book, they're often wonderful. But in the same few ways. Who needs more of that?

    You may think that to praise The Simpsons at the expense of Henry James makes me a barbarian. Well, it does, but I'm a very cultured barbarian. The literary novel has gone late Roman. It needs the barbarians.


    Thoughts?
    Beware of the man with just one book. -Ovid
    The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the man who can't read them.- Mark Twain
    My Blog: Of Delicious Recoil
    http://stlukesguild.tumblr.com/

  2. #2
    Maybe YesNo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    For Mill, South Carolina
    Posts
    9,532
    Blog Entries
    2
    I liked the way Julian Gough differentiated comedy from tragedy:

    The Greeks understood that comedy (the gods' view of life) is superior to tragedy (the merely human).

    I do prefer reading something with a bit of humor in it and I'm glad to think that might be what the gods prefer as well.

  3. #3
    Dance Magic Dance OrphanPip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Kuala Lumpur but from Canada
    Posts
    4,163
    Blog Entries
    25
    I wouldn't blame the universities though, the comic mode has been the bastard stepchild for a long time. The only period of cultural dominance the comedy enjoyed in English was during the 18th century (Satire was also more popular then). I wouldn't say comedy is dead though, it is incredibly popular in the television medium, where comedies are routinely the top ratings earners.

    Anyway, I'd say that the tragicomedy is the dominant mode today anyway. Since it is the obsession with the tragic in the common that predominates our art, not the fall of great/good people (a la tragedy) or the play of the disruption/harmonization of the common social sphere (comedy) that interests the academic audiences. The author makes the mistake of confusing the comic with the comedic, and they are not the same thing.
    "If the national mental illness of the United States is megalomania, that of Canada is paranoid schizophrenia."
    - Margaret Atwood

  4. #4
    Registered User Emil Miller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    6,499
    Difficult not to agree with a good deal of what's written here about angst-ridden mediocrity, which is why I seldom read modern writers. When I want to engage with the kitchen sink I go into the kitchen, but the lack of comedy in today's writing is an unfortunate reality as is shown by the examples given.
    It's even worse than is suggested, because the proliferation of fiction dealing with everything from Aspergers syndrome to incest via marital and mental breakdown, drugs, juvenile and adult delinquancy etc., is taken as the norm by the reading public and becomes a self-fuifilling prophecy. Po faced scribblings about the human condition should be well past their sell by date but, as the various awards for new writng show, such is not the case.
    The first book i wrote dealt with the disintegration of a society from a political and legal standpoint. The second is about a psycologically disturbed man who is delusional; or is he? By the time I came to write a third, I started with every intention of writing a serious novel set in the world of publishing but I suddenly realised the comic potential of the protagonist and the book became a tragicomedy, and while the comic aspect lessens the seriousness of a novel that ends in suicide, the story would be noticeably depleted without it.
    "L'art de la statistique est de tirer des conclusions erronèes a partir de chiffres exacts." Napoléon Bonaparte.

    "Je crois que beaucoup de gens sont dans cet état d’esprit: au fond, ils ne sentent pas concernés par l’Histoire. Mais pourtant, de temps à autre, l’Histoire pose sa main sur eux." Michel Houellebecq.

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Durham, North Carolina
    Posts
    86
    Very interesting article. I think part of the problem is that in order to write a good comedy or satire, one must be intelligent and open-minded enough to realize that our leaders (for example) are nothing more than megalomaniac jackasses. We simply don't have that today. Every leftist thinks that Obama is a saint and every conservative thinks the same of Bush. It's not about academia or the Greek influence; it's about the ability to spot garbage, human or otherwise, and say, "it's nothing but garbage". We simply don't have people who can do that anymore. The whole thing boils down to the degeneration of intelligence and common sense.

    There are exceptions. South Park has done a remarkable job mocking our society and our culture for many years, until it degenerated into fart jokes and stupid Cartman adventures on its way to imminent cancellation.

  6. #6
    Registered User Heteronym's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    352
    In defense of universities, they don't force would-be novelists to enroll in creative programs. If there's a demand for such courses, the universities would be foolish not to take advantage of people who think they can take classes to become novelists. I simply don't read those people.

    As for humor, I think there's a lot of wisdom in this essay. But I tend to take an absurdist, mocking, non-serious view of existence. I'd also recommend reading Milan Kundera's books of literary criticism: he was the first critic to make me realize the crucial role of humor in the history of the novel, from Rabelais onwards.

  7. #7
    riding a cosmic vortex MystyrMystyry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Under the trees deep in a cave
    Posts
    3,365
    Blog Entries
    25
    With the Simpsons we know the cast of characters and cultural references without the need to exert any effort. If a Novel attempted to cover the same ground there would necessarily be a pile of joke stalling context building. But comparisons are odorous. People who specialise in comedy will look for a paying audience - anything from sitcoms to stand up, talk shows to movie scripts. New mediums for a new age. Had television/film not appeared then both the light hearted view and black comedy would still exist in plays and performance and occasionally in print.

    Travelling bards and troubadors would have used wit to communicate the news.

    Poor Richard's Almanack, Pickwick Papers, Mark Twain's various pieces would have been read aloud to an enthusiastic audience back in their day. And of course some of the best one-liners become 'quotes'. Here are some from Mr Twain:


    Sacred cows make the best hamburger

    The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right

    I don't suppose there was much danger. People born to be hanged are safe in water

    One man alone can be pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide stupidity there ain't nothing can beat teamwork

    Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass

  8. #8
    Maybe YesNo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    For Mill, South Carolina
    Posts
    9,532
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by MystyrMystyry View Post
    Sacred cows make the best hamburger


    Nice quote from Twain.

  9. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    5,046
    Blog Entries
    16
    A few points.

    1. It sounds like the author doesn't like tragic or dark fiction. He seems quite biased. All his points about why comedy, such as The Simpsons, is better than current fiction are purely subjective.

    2. I don't really get how the universities can be blamed. First, I'd love to know how many of the best-selling, dour writers went to a university and studied creative writing (it could be a lot, I don't know). Second, he's saying the tone of modern fiction is why people aren't reading as much. Really? If I were to take a guess, I'd say it had more to do with the deterioration of attentions spans due to film, TV, video games, the internet, etc.

    3. The majority of people who actually do read don't even read the type of fiction--"high-brow," as it were--described. They read trashy romances, books about vampires and magicians; they read genre fiction, some of which is comedic and some of which isn't.

    4. A subjective statement of my own: I rarely go to literature for comedy, and I love comedy. It's a genre I think works much better visually, for me, anyways.

    5. I'm sure there could be a huge list compiled of comedic writers within the last hundred years, but I'm too lazy to do it.

  10. #10
    Artist and Bibliophile stlukesguild's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    The USA... or thereabouts
    Posts
    6,083
    Blog Entries
    78
    I think the point is that "comedy"... satire, etc... has long been, as Pip suggested, the bastard stepchild to "tragedy". As the essay notes, comedies almost never win the Oscar... no matter how brilliant. The literary prizes all go to "serious" tragedies... and not comedies or satires. In the traditional visual arts (painting, sculpture, etc...) there is an equal bias. Serious painting is tragic. The comic is "lightweight". This is not to undermine the tragic... but as the writer suggests, we need more of the comic.

    I'll try to address this further at a later date... having downed some 4 or 5 strong, dark beers... including this absolutely magnificent brew...:



    ... a virtual dessert brew... at 10% alcohol... after a magnificent t-bone on the grill as part of our July 4 celebration. Right now... as should be expected... I'm listening to the Stones at full volume... feeling seriously buzzed... and only able to type thanks to modern technology (online spell check).

    Mutatis! If you get the chance... give this brew a taste. Even you might like it. Delicious as a White Russian. (I still think you should stop messing about and jump in at the deep end with a Long Island Ice Tea. I lived on these things during my year and a half in New York where they made them strong enough to strip the plaque off your teeth. Nothing like staggering about Manhattan at 3 AM... especially if you end up in Washington Square Park or Christopher Street. Eye-opening, to say the least.
    Last edited by stlukesguild; 07-04-2012 at 09:35 PM.
    Beware of the man with just one book. -Ovid
    The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the man who can't read them.- Mark Twain
    My Blog: Of Delicious Recoil
    http://stlukesguild.tumblr.com/

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    5,046
    Blog Entries
    16
    Well, do we need more of the comic, or more recognition of it?

    And I'll be sure to keep the reccomendation in mind .

  12. #12
    Artist and Bibliophile stlukesguild's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    The USA... or thereabouts
    Posts
    6,083
    Blog Entries
    78
    I share a studio where the two sides of this dichotomy are in direct confrontation. My studio mate paints large brooding paintings dealing with the tragedy of the Holocaust. I'm currently wrapping up a painting of Diana at her bath... except my Diana is Wonder Woman... caught topless by Acteon. In the wings I have a painting with Herman Munster and Dita von Tiese (The Beauty and the Beast) and another with Spider-man in the works. The shared common narratives of the Renaissance came from Homer, Aeschylus, Ovid, and the Bible... today they come from comic books, television, pro-sports, rock music, and porno films.
    Beware of the man with just one book. -Ovid
    The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the man who can't read them.- Mark Twain
    My Blog: Of Delicious Recoil
    http://stlukesguild.tumblr.com/

  13. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    5,046
    Blog Entries
    16
    Those sound awesome. Are you going to post pictures of them (unless you already have)?

  14. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Durham, North Carolina
    Posts
    86
    Quote Originally Posted by stlukesguild View Post
    As the essay notes, comedies almost never win the Oscar... no matter how brilliant.
    Perhaps, but why restrict ourselves to the cinema? Many if not most of the most successful TV shows in history have been comedies, including the number one (Seinfeld) and the most watched episode in history by percentage (The MASH finale).

  15. #15
    Registered User kelby_lake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    3,620
    Quote Originally Posted by stlukesguild View Post
    As the essay notes, comedies almost never win the Oscar... no matter how brilliant.
    Not true. Recently, we've had The Artist and The King's Speech. There's also been Shakespeare in Love, Forrest Gump, Driving Miss Daisy, The Apartment, All About Eve...the Academy love films about misery but they also love heartwarming light comedies.

    Films are not always easily categorised into comedy/tragedy and comedies are varied beasts. Shakespeare in Love is a comedy but so is American Beauty.

    And as Summer M says, most beloved TV shows are comedies.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. On-set of Sentimental Comedy
    By Dipen Guha in forum She Stoops to Conquer
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-14-2010, 12:21 PM
  2. On-set of Sentimental Comedy
    By Dipen Guha in forum She Stoops to Conquer
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-14-2009, 02:21 PM
  3. Are some works now purely of historical interest only?
    By kelby_lake in forum General Literature
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 09-02-2009, 10:09 AM
  4. Life is a Tragedy or Comedy?
    By Lote-Tree in forum General Chat
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 09-05-2007, 05:30 PM
  5. Comedy and Tragedy
    By mono in forum Poems, Poets, and Poetry
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-04-2005, 11:17 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •