Inigo Montoya's Villanelle

[MorpheusSandman]

It is a villanelle to him because there are five tercets and one quatrain. Content does not matter to him. He needs to browse "The Making of a Poem" to find out if villanelle is conversational or has a story. He should check "One Art" by Elizabeth Bishop to get the idea how villanelle works.

The villanelle is determined by form--the rhyme scheme and refrain pattern. That's it. I don't buy the notion that a villanelle can't tell a story or have a conversational tone, and The Making of a Poem is the only book I've read that (futilely) attempted to define it by content. If the pattern is this:

A1
b
A2

a
b
A1

a
b
A2

a
b
A1

a
b
A2

a
b
A1
A2

then it's a villanelle.

A villanelle, like a sonnet, is a strict poetic form.

And there have been variations on both going back hundreds of years. I'm hardly the first to vary the refrain, or to use half-rhymes.

[Jack of Hearts]

Well, this reader will tell you one thing. It's definitely not a haiku.






J

[miyako73]

If you want to be strictly true to form, maybe this will help.

From the originator of Villanelle:

Villanelle

Jean Passerat (1534–†1602)


J’AI perdu ma tourterelle;
Est-ce point celle que j’oy?
Je veux aller après elle.

Tu regrettes ta femelle,
Hélas! aussi fais-je moy.
J’ai perdu ma tourterelle.

Si ton amour est fidelle,
Aussi est ferme ma foy;
Je veux aller après elle.

Ta plainte se renouvelle,
Toujours plaindre je me doy;
J’ai perdu ma tourterelle.

En ne voyant plus la belle,
Plus rien de beau je ne voy;
Je veux aller après elle.

Mort, que tant de fois j’appelle,
Prends ce qui se donne à toy!
J’ai perdu ma tourterelle;
Je veux aller après elle.

I don't understand French, but I can see its form. Yours is not the same.

If you want English, American, pentameter (somewhat), and more recent, let's summon Sylvia Plath. Also check the content.

Mad Girl's Love Song

I shut my eyes and all the world drops dead;
I lift my lids and all is born again.
(I think I made you up inside my head.)

The stars go waltzing out in blue and red,
And arbitrary darkness gallops in:
I shut my eyes and all the world drops dead.

I dreamed that you bewitched me into bed
And sung me moon-struck, kissed me quite insane.
(I think I made you up inside my head.)

God topples from the sky, hell's fires fade:
Exit seraphim and Satan's men:
I shut my eyes and all the world drops dead.

I fancied you'd return the way you said.
But I grow old and I forget your name.
(I think I made you up inside my head.)

I should have loved a thunderbird instead;
At least when spring comes they roar back again.
I shut my eyes and all the world drops dead.
(I think I made you up inside my head.)

--Sylvia Plath

[Jack of Hearts]

Oh, leave him alone about it.





J

[qimissung]

R e m i n d e r

Please refrain from posting in this section of the Forum

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Posts containing personal and/or inflammatory comments will be removed without further warning.

[MorpheusSandman]

I don't understand French, but I can see its form. Yours is not the same.

The only difference between that and mine is:

1. I vary the refrain (Bishop's One Art does this)
2. I use half-rhymes (Roethke's The Waking does this)

If you want English, American, pentameter (somewhat), and more recent, let's summon Sylvia Plath. Also check the content.

I posted two recent villanelles that make changes to the form that I made. Content doesn't matter.

[Jassy Melson]

I can see it all now: someone will write a 100-line poem and call it a villanelle. Any criticism will be met with the statement: The writer thinks it's a villanelle to him, therefore it's a villanelle. The fact is there are strict poetic forms. They allow no diviation. But I can see the day coming when there will be no poetic forms. Poetry will be totally free verse. When that day comes, the nadir of poetry will be reached.

[Twota]

haahaa, I love it, reads funny.

[MorpheusSandman]

The fact is there are strict poetic forms. They allow no diviation.

I already linked to two poems that are frequently featured in anthologies under the label of "villanelles" and have the same variations mine has. It's fine saying a villanelle or a sonnet is a "fixed form," but what I'm missing is for someone here to actually describe what that fixed form is and how mine doesn't fit that description. So far, all I've seen is a lot of people saying it doesn't (without saying how) and links posted to other villanelles that, ironically, utilize variations themselves.

[Jassy Melson]

A villanelle contains six stanzas, the first five contain three lines and the last stanza four lines. The same number of syllables are in every line; i.e., one line cannot contain eight syllables and the next line six. The rhyme scheme is a b a for every line, except for the last stanza which is a b a a. Any deviation from this makes the poem not a villanelle.

[Jassy Melson]

Do not go gentle into that good night
by Dylan Thomas

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn to late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

[PrinceMyshkin]

A villanelle contains six stanzas, the first five contain three lines and the last stanza four lines. The same number of syllables are in every line; i.e., one line cannot contain eight syllables and the next line six. The rhyme scheme is a b a for every line, except for the last stanza which is a b a a. Any deviation from this makes the poem not a villanelle.

It seems to me to be a disservice to this poem (and by implication to every poem that employs an approximation of a given form) to point out its deviations from strict adherence to the form, without mentioning the many ingenuities in it, the wit and the invention.

[Jassy Melson]

One more note about the form of the villanelle:
The first, sixth, twelfth and eighteenth lines are all the same line; the third, ninth, fifteenth and nineteenth lines are all the same line.

[Jack of Hearts]

Just wanted to revisit this poem and say what an entertaining and worthy read it was.







J

[Jassy Melson]

Too bad it's not a villanelle, isn't it? The poet should change the title.