It should be a power in the family doctor by simple contract. If they want to morphine OD in bed that is between them. I don't want the government involved.
It should be a power in the family doctor by simple contract. If they want to morphine OD in bed that is between them. I don't want the government involved.
What's the minimum age allowed on this idea?Originally Posted by JamCrackers
Before sunlight can shine through a window, the blinds must be raised - American Proverb
Suicide prevention is kindness not torture. I struggle with thoughts of suicide. If it were not for steps taken by other people to help stop me from acting on them I might not be here. Its not torture. Its rational charity.
I would think that if one is contemplating suicide it may be due to a temporary state of mind, or that of depression. In that case, it's a very permanent solution for a temporary problem. If it can be sure that one cannot recover from mental illness, then how can the person (who is mentally ill.....not of sound mind) be deemed able to make such a decision? And how can anyone else be able to make such a decision for them?
Les Miserables,
Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.
1.) Hesse answered this question pretty good in Steppenwolf. Suicide is the escape hatch. It's always there in a fundamental way, one could always 'pull the chute.' Religion isn't a deterrent for the most postmodern of us, the most godless- but a healthy dose of skepticism should put natural science in a certain context. The wisest of us will say we don't know what's on the metaphorical other side of the great abyss by whatever means we happen to cross it.
2.) If a person is caught in a moment of passion, and you have sufficient reason to think strong emotions are temporarily altering their judgment, then intervention might be warranted. But if someone wants to take their own life, that seems as fundamental a right as one can have.
Discussed.
J
I agree. There is no need to romanticize suicide. It is not poetic.
I also think Darcy88's comment that suicide prevention is a kindness, not a torture and BienvenuJDC's observation that suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem both make sense. Some people may only need a correct medical diagnosis and proper treatment. Others may just need a change in perspective.
Miyako73's claim that "burning one's self for the cause of others is the best" I find questionable. I realize there have been many recent Buddhist monks who set themselves on fire in India and Tibet for political reasons. These suicides will be all that is remembered after the politics has been long forgotten and like bad karma they will haunt Buddhism. Religions need to show us how to live, not how to die.
My blog: https://frankhubeny.blog/
Bien makes a good point about a very permanent solution for a short term problem. But how can we differentiate weather it is a short term agony or a long term one?
Many people are showing an image of death as unwanted and ugly, yet the happiness we have in our world, all the freedoms and human rights and liberties which we enjoy, we are usurping this rich harvest because before us thousands of men before us were willing to die for freedom and human rights. So there is a hypocrisy in lamenting the uselessness of the monks burning themselves when the only reason we live free lives is because our ancestors willingly died so that we could have what we have today. Thankful no one applied the mentality of such fear of death before, otherwise only 1/10 os us on the forum would have had education and freedom and wealth in our lives, most of us would be still living like feudal slaves.
I know what I am talking about is not technically suicide, but it is important to remember that death is not so bad, and it is because so many men in the best did not bow before it and were not fearful of it that we lead such good lives today. To quote Manfred's final words before death - "Old man! It is not so difficult to die"
I'll kill myself if and when I want to. I'm not going to suffer old age ailments and senility. If someone has a problem with that, it's not my problem. I suppose the trick to the thing is not telling anyone who has the ability to hospitalize you.
This is one area that I can understand. What pains me is when young people resort to suicide because they can't cope with short lived circumstances. Also when parents commit suicide without thinking about the responsibility they have to their children (talking about young children).
Les Miserables,
Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.
In answer to the first question, I would have to agree with most that it is abnormal in the sense that it is not the norm. Having thoughts of suicide are quite common I believe. Everyone has a bad day/month/year that just leaves them feeling that it would be so much easier to just end it all. The anomaly is in the people that actually do it. The reason I say this is that it goes against all survival instincts to commit suicide. You have to override your basic survival instinct or have a weak drive for survival to begin with. That is an abnormality in the individual. This is why, I believe, that successful suicides are relatively rare in comparison to the amount of people who think about it.
As for forcing someone to stay alive against their will... Mostly I would say that this is impossible. The people threatening to kill themselves or "trying" to commit suicide are crying out for someone to help them cope. The people who truly wish to die just quietly make it happen. These are the people who you wake up and hear they put a shotgun round through their head. These are not the people cutting their wrists the wrong way or trying to overdose on pills after they sent a goodbye e-mail to their boyfriend. People who wish to die simply do. They don't make mistakes, and they don't stop to think about who they would leave behind or who will be hurt. Most people don't really want to die, they want to try to die and have someone save them.
...but you just told us Varenne
I doubt you'll have many tricks up your sleeve by the time you're senile anyway since you'll be incompetent in your thinking process. You'll be so busy babbling about how you just had coffee with your dead relatives, planning your own suicide without anyone knowing will be a mission impossible. The other thing to factor is the error of assumption that you will have the same mentality then that you have now. Of course you might, but I highly doubt it.
Before sunlight can shine through a window, the blinds must be raised - American Proverb
I think that there's absolutely nothing wrong with non existence. The dead can't be harmed. Furthermore, I don't think any amount of happiness can outweigh serious suffering, even when it's only temporary suffering. Thinking about suicide is really a sane thing to do.
The way society currently handles the issue is terrible and leads to a lot of unnecessary suffering. You're not "rescuing" people who truly want to kill themselves, you're causing them suffering. And those who attempt suicide because they want to be rescued? Well they wouldn't do that if people wouldn't rescue those who attempt suicide in the first place. The fact that chemicals that induce a painfree, quick death are almost impossible to get also causes a lot of pain to those who kill themselves and those who might witness it or find the bodies. And lastly, think of all the lives that can be saved if the large amount of people who commit suicide could donate their organs. The people who are saved actually want to live, after all.
The really messed up thing about the whole issue is that suicide is often selfish because it leaves people back who suffer from it, and because a person can do a lot of good in a lifetime, at least if they put their mind to it.
No one was asked whether they want to live, you're thrown in there, and when you're unhappy, you can't really get out without being unethical. That's why I'll never have children.
Suicide is tragic in oh so many ways. The poetics may be defined as: selfish, honorable, dishonorable, escape, demons, insanity, a "momentary lapse of reason" (snagged from a Pink Floyd album name but otherwise not related I believe), terror, and more. I cannot see the beauty in it.
Suicide has tangled my life in its weave in many different ways. I've twice been on suicide watches (both are still alive: one after 30 years in good health; another after 6-years of on again off again struggle, but still making a difference for the good in the world); friends who have related their stories of grief and luck; one where perhaps no one could have intervened - when my sister committed suicide: and others.
Preventing suicide has so many shades of gray. Arbitrarily throwing one into an institution might be a kindness in the way that one might get the proper health care to help one become "healed" in a manner that one might be able to overcome whatever drove them to attempt suicide (if the institution was hardwired into helping and not closeting their patients) and continue with a long a fruitful life.
Life is so precious. No one knows what might be if one were rational enough to take pause to reflect. Where one is not rational - perhaps no intervention may be possible if they can't get the necessary treatment. For those who are selfish, I dunno. I have heard of those who were stopped at one time only to succeed later - at least they had the chance to reflect before the consummation of the act.
I, my two brothers, my Mother, my other sister, my nieces and nephew, and my sister's grandchildren, and my sister's husband (who had just opened the front door when my sister committed her act) remember holidays, birthdays, etc. with grief thrown into the mix. I know my sister wasn't being selfish on her part - she was under medication for depression which might even have contributed to a momentary lapse, and very possibly under a delusion which held her in terror. My nieces rarely go a week without posting on FB that they miss their Mom. I'd rather to be able to visit her, even in an institution - but perhaps that's just me being selfish.
Enduring nobly to the end;
Ta ! (short for tarradiddle),
tailor STATELY
tailor
who am I but a stitch in time
what if I were to bare my soul
would you see me origami
7-8-2015
Its shouldn't be a fundamental right. It ruins lives, not just the life of the one taking their own life. It should only be legal in cases where treatment is not possible. I can't stand this attitude. Hesse thought that way because he was probably suffering from some form of bipolar or other mental disorder.
Suicide is irrational. Its often relatively healthy and well off people who consider and/or attempt it. I fully support forced hospitalization, forced medication, when there is a risk of suicide. But I also support euthanasia in cases where pain and suffering are chronic and the low quality of life is impossible to mend.
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