Legal Marijuana

[Emil Miller]

It would seem that there's a certain lack consistency here.

Careful, anecdotes aren't evidence.

I smoke pot, and not to brag like a tool but simply to prove a point, I have a 3.8GPA from the U of A, I donate 10% of my paycheques to charity and I've been co-running an animal rehabilitation center for six years. My dad smokes, and he's a politician and union leader plus a prison guard. My classics prof smokes weed, and he's... well... a professor (a classics professor, but still). Also, since my highschool graduation, I've come to learn that at least six of my teachers smoke weed. Alcohol drinkers and hard drug users are often supported by the state, but marijuana really isn't that debilitating (unless you're a schizophrenic, apparently).

[stlukesguild]

I'm going to assume that a Tesco is like a grocery store. You can't buy alcohol at a grocery store in North America.

Since when? I buy the majority of my alcohol at Giant Eagle... the large local grocery store chain. I can get beer and wine (and a good selection of each) in the beverage sections of the store. If I'm up for the harder stuff, there is a state operated liquor store within the Giant Eagle where I can buy whiskey, rum, vodka, vermouth, bourbon, etc...

[Darcy88]

But there's always a fine line between choice and government legislation. The same could be argued for seatbelts in cars, the use of crash helmets, smoking in public places and so on, it's a circular debate. It could be argued that giving people information and leaving them to decide is not always enough.



Why not if it's made legal?


Tobacco is a plant too and alcohol is as natural as they come so I don't see the argument there.

Those oil companies will be fined for polluting the environment. Sure, it will be a fraction of their profits and so they are probably better of polluting the environment and paying the fine, but that is the power of big corporations for you and is a different story.



Because there would be a massive boom in consumption of the vile stuff which is not something I would want to see. It would also give the green light to further drug use, with the same arguments of 'freedom of choice' then becoming applicable to other drugs like heroin and cocaine. People have a right of choice yes?

On a personal level though I just can't be doing with the stuff reeking the whole estate up and groups of people smoking it in public, at the bus stop in gangs around the shops etc - do I really want to see an increase in this? I would have to move to the middle of nowhere if it was foolishly pushed through government. That might sound dramatic or petty but I really can't stand it. What about my rights not to have to be subjected to the smell of it?

This is full of straw men and misconceptions. You seem well-intentioned but your facts are just wrong. There's a big deal of difference between marijuana and harder drugs like cocaine and heroin. The latter two are highly addictive, marijuana is not. My co-worker who for 10 years smoked 5 joints a day just quit cold-turkey four months ago, hasn't touched the stuff since, with little to zero grief. I have a highly addictive personality but I've completely stopped marijuana use several times after long stretches of using it heavily, and quitting was a breeze.

Tobacco is a plant too and alcohol is as natural as they come so I don't see the argument there.

They add hundreds of carcinogenic chemicals to tobacco before its sold. Alcohol has to sit and ferment for weeks or months or longer. Marijuana you can pick right off the stem and enjoy. Its not a significant point, but its a point. I also can't see why you are not for the banning of alcohol and tobacco, two substances which wreak drastically more harm than cannabis.

Also, I think the myth of marijuana being a gateway drug has been debunked, but if it still has any credence its because the person who sells marijuana also often has access to other drugs. Anti-marijuana laws keep its sale criminal and underground.

And wanting it to remain illegal mostly because you can't stand the smell is not the best motivation, especially when people are dying from organized crime and others are languishing in prison cells as a direct result of anti-marijuana legislation.

[tonywalt]

As marijuana is so readily available in the Caribbean, there is very little argument on the topic but if I were to make arguments they would be:

1. Marijuana isn't more harmful than alcohol or tobacco if used in moderation.

2. Limiting the use of the drug intrudes on personal freedom.

3. There are medical benefits such as the those for cancer patients. Just explore youtube for much content on this area.

4. Street justice related to drug disputes would be reduced.

5. Police and court resources would be freed up for more serious crimes.

6. The government drug control agencies could regulate the quality and safety of marijuana.

7. Aside from recreational drug use, Cannabis has several industrial and commercial uses, as over 25,000 products can be made from the crop.

[YesNo]

What about my rights not to have to be subjected to the smell of it?

It would probably be restricted to areas where cigarette smoking is permitted which would thankfully exclude it from most public places where I live.

One group of people who study market conditions based on social mood believe that there is a correlation between government attitudes toward banning marijuana or legalizing it and what one can expect from the stock market. According to this speculation, if the government promotes banning marijuana it is a bullish sign for the market. If it considers legalizing it, it is a bearish sign. Of course, that speculation might be all a pipe dream of their own.

http://www.elliottwave.com/press_roo...-Drug-War.aspx

[Paulclem]

Careful, anecdotes aren't evidence.

I smoke pot, and not to brag like a tool but simply to prove a point, I have a 3.8GPA from the U of A, I donate 10% of my paycheques to charity and I've been co-running an animal rehabilitation center for six years. My dad smokes, and he's a politician and union leader plus a prison guard. My classics prof smokes weed, and he's... well... a professor (a classics professor, but still). Also, since my highschool graduation, I've come to learn that at least six of my teachers smoke weed. Alcohol drinkers and hard drug users are often supported by the state, but marijuana really isn't that debilitating (unless you're a schizophrenic, apparently).

The anecdotes are from healthcare professionals. As for educated doubt, there's also the matter of common experience. How many educated scientific studies have you noticed that confirm what you thought anyway? I've met a few people who were clearly affected advsersely by their use. It's a moot point.

As for your second paragraph, I wasn't clear. I meant the point to follow on from

It might seem that this would be a rocky road to the decriminalisation of all drugs. It might, and that might be the better option for the same reasons.


Dope clearly doesn't have the negative effects that heroin and crack use has, and I didn't intend it that way.

My point was that decriminalisation of dope may lead to deciminalisation of hard drugs too. It is from these that the worst effects are felt, but I was advocating legalisation as the better of the two options. If we do that, then society has to deal with the casualties better.

[Emil Miller]

It would probably be restricted to areas where cigarette smoking is permitted which would thankfully exclude it from most public places where I live.

One group of people who study market conditions based on social mood believe that there is a correlation between government attitudes toward banning marijuana or legalizing it and what one can expect from the stock market. According to this speculation, if the government promotes banning marijuana it is a bullish sign for the market. If it considers legalizing it, it is a bearish sign. Of course, that speculation might be all a pipe dream of their own.

http://www.elliottwave.com/press_roo...-Drug-War.aspx

Whilst being wholly in agreement with the antis on this subject, I don't think the chart shows a direct correlation between bull/bear markets and banning/legalising. Most of the bearish movements are, in any case, too small to be of great significance and those that aren't, are probably due to other factors.

[LitNetIsGreat]

This is full of straw men and misconceptions. You seem well-intentioned but your facts are just wrong. There's a big deal of difference between marijuana and harder drugs like cocaine and heroin. The latter two are highly addictive, marijuana is not.

You misunderstood my point. I’m not saying that the drugs are alike, I’m saying that if you legalise one you are setting a harmful precedent for the others to follow. At the very least you are sending a message out to the public that drugs are OK. No sane (or insane) politician in this country is going to do that any time soon.

And wanting it to remain illegal mostly because you can't stand the smell is not the best motivation, especially when people are dying from organized crime and others are languishing in prison cells as a direct result of anti-marijuana legislation.

Well it’s not like the British government is keeping the stuff illegal just because of me. I’m sure they have their own motivations as well. I’m sorry but if people don’t want to be sat in prison cells then don’t break the law, even if some of the sentences seem harsh. People who smoke marijuana are the ones feeding organised crime, come to think of it, not the ones who don’t. It’s a bit of a ransom argument as I said earlier.

[Darcy88]

You misunderstood my point. I’m not saying that the drugs are alike, I’m saying that if you legalise one you are setting a harmful precedent for the others to follow. At the very least you are sending a message out to the public that drugs are OK. No sane (or insane) politician in this country is going to do that any time soon.




Well it’s not like the British government is keeping the stuff illegal just because of me. I’m sure they have their own motivations as well. I’m sorry but if people don’t want to be sat in prison cells then don’t break the law, even if some of the sentences seem harsh. People who smoke marijuana are the ones feeding organised crime, come to think of it, not the ones who don’t. It’s a bit of a ransom argument as I said earlier.

You support the continued legal status of alcohol yet resist the legalization of marijuana. One estimate attributes 1 in 25 deaths worldwide to the consumption of alcohol. I've known at least half a dozen who have died as a result of liquor. Two thirds, maybe three-quarters of people around here smoke marijuana and I have yet to hear of a single related fatality. I've also been witness to countless acts of violence coming as a result of alcoholic inebriation, not a single one as a result of marijuana.

Be consistent and either support the criminalization of alcohol or the decriminalization of cannabis.

The standard by which something is legalized or not shouldn't be its status as a "drug" but rather its actual impact on the well-being of individuals and society. By that standard marijuana is less harmful than white sugar and should be legalized.

[Emil Miller]

You support the continued legal status of alcohol yet resist the legalization of marijuana. One estimate attributes 1 in 25 deaths worldwide to the consumption of alcohol. I've known at least half a dozen who have died as a result of liquor. Two thirds, maybe three-quarters of people around here smoke marijuana and I have yet to hear of a single related fatality. I've also been witness to countless acts of violence coming as a result of alcoholic inebriation, not a single one as a result of marijuana.

Be consistent and either support the criminalization of alcohol or the decriminalization of cannabis.

The standard by which something is legalized or not shouldn't be its status as a "drug" but rather its actual impact on the well-being of individuals and society. By that standard marijuana is less harmful than white sugar and should be legalized.

The estimation of deaths from alcohol should read 'excessive alcohol' and I would be prepared to lay money that virtually every single person who dies of heroin or other hard drug addiction started on the drug route by smoking some form of cannabis resin.
As Neely points out, if people didn't take it there wouldn't be a problem so the blame for it's consequences both social and criminal lies squarely with the users.

[Darcy88]

The estimation of deaths from alcohol should read 'excessive alcohol' and I would be prepared to lay money that virtually every single person who dies of heroin or other hard drug addiction started on the drug route by smoking some form of cannabis resin.
As Neely points out, if people didn't take it there wouldn't be a problem so the blame for it's consequences both social and criminal lies squarely with the users.

Excessive alcohol or not, its still alcohol. And no, the consequences of cannabis' criminality lie in the laws that make it criminal. Here you are defending alcohol, which causes an estimated 1 in 25 deaths worldwide, and condemning marijuana, a comparatively harmless substance. Your position has its footing in sand. As I said before, if marijuana is a gateway drug its mostly because it has been criminalized and left in the hands of dealers who push other drugs. It has been classed along with heroin and ecstasy and cocaine not because of any inherent commonality with them that alcohol does not too share. Alcohol and cannabis are both drugs. One is legal, the other is not, despite the latter being less harmful, and therein lies the only difference. Something wrong there.

[LitNetIsGreat]

You support the continued legal status of alcohol yet resist the legalization of marijuana. One estimate attributes 1 in 25 deaths worldwide to the consumption of alcohol. I've known at least half a dozen who have died as a result of liquor. Two thirds, maybe three-quarters of people around here smoke marijuana and I have yet to hear of a single related fatality. I've also been witness to countless acts of violence coming as a result of alcoholic inebriation, not a single one as a result of marijuana.

Be consistent and either support the criminalization of alcohol or the decriminalization of cannabis.

The standard by which something is legalized or not shouldn't be its status as a "drug" but rather its actual impact on the well-being of individuals and society. By that standard marijuana is less harmful than white sugar and should be legalized.

I am consistent because one is legal and the other isn't. As soon as something is legalised it becomes impossible criminalise. The bottom line is that no politician wants to be remembered for giving the green light to greater drug use.

[Darcy88]

If marijuana is to be kept illegal based on its harmfulness then alcohol should be prohibited as well. One can't have it both ways and avoid hypocrisy.

[Emil Miller]

If marijuana is to be kept illegal based on its harmfulness then alcohol should be prohibited as well. One can't have it both ways and avoid hypocrisy.

Well it would be impossible to criminalise something that has been around for thousands of years, despite the fact that in excess it is dangerous to health, but the British Medical Association repeatedly warns of the danger. On the other hand, Cannabis Resin has been a comparatively recent arrival in developed countries and as far as I know has remained illegal since its arrival in the UK.
The BMA also warns of it's uncontrolled use and has recently had this to say about it according to a national daily newspaper:

Doctors' leaders said they were "extremely concerned" that the imminent downgrading of cannabis would make the public believe it was a "safe" drug to use.
The substance is due to be reclassified from a class B to a class C drug on January 29, ranking it alongside bodybuilding steroids and some anti-depressants.
But the British Medical Association said it was worried how this move would affect potential drug-users who might be led to believe the drug was now safe to use.
Dr Peter Maguire, deputy chairman of the BMA's board of science, said they welcomed the Government's campaign to highlight the dangers of cannabis.
He said: "The public must be made aware of the harmful effects that we know result from smoking this drug.

[Darcy88]

Well it would be impossible to criminalise something that has been around for thousands of years, despite the fact that in excess it is dangerous to health, but the British Medical Association repeatedly warns of the danger. On the other hand, Cannabis Resin has been a comparatively recent arrival in developed countries and as far as I know has remained illegal since its arrival in the UK.

I suppose then that you support legalized prostitution.