As difficult as it is to seperate them, just remember there may be some itching to close this thread down, so please leave government out of it.
As difficult as it is to seperate them, just remember there may be some itching to close this thread down, so please leave government out of it.
"L'art de la statistique est de tirer des conclusions erronèes a partir de chiffres exacts." Napoléon Bonaparte.
"Je crois que beaucoup de gens sont dans cet état d’esprit: au fond, ils ne sentent pas concernés par l’Histoire. Mais pourtant, de temps à autre, l’Histoire pose sa main sur eux." Michel Houellebecq.
It's stupid to try and leave out government when it comes to economics. But, whatever, if someone has to report my post to keep a thread (that's already in clear violation of the rules anyways) going, so be it.
Anyways, my comment was as political as anything else here. This board discusses governments all the time. Government and politics aren't the same thing. In any case, they're just as adjacent as economics and politics. Hell, you have people talking about capitalism here, a POLITICAL IDEOLOGY. And I was hardly the first person to bring up governments.
Last edited by Mutatis-Mutandis; 02-01-2012 at 11:24 PM.
This is real close to what I was thinking. I can give my opinion to the question, but I won't be able to discuss it any further. I don't think that the bankers should be receiving their bonuses, but I also don't think that lawyers (especially the crooked like in congress) should be raking in the same wages (or more) as they always have been. Most of the world has taken pay cuts, why not the lawyers, politicians, and bankers.Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandi
Les Miserables,
Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.
Yeah but what kind of road are we going down if the government starts meddling with the private sector wage structures-totalitarianism.
I never said that the government should be in charge of regulating it, I just said that they should have their pay cut as well.
Les Miserables,
Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.
I agree. Bankers, politicians, all of 'em are getting too much, and it's only because they're helping each other. It's a big circle jerk, and the common man can't participate.
Tough regulation is what's needed in the banking sector (stopping huge greedy speculators borrowing billions/ let people start businesses, buy houses). Light touch regulation led to the crisis in the first place. And the governments were in the banks pockets-the government encouraged this massive lending at the time. Now the Government owns some of the banks. So now we, the taxpayer, effectively own the banks. So why won't they lend us our money. Screw of the century and hardly anyone takes a flyin bit of notice...crazy so it is. A kleptocracy!
Congressmen make 170k a year. Wall street banksters often pull in bonuses worth millions. Politicians are paid such handsome amounts so that the best and brightest might be attracted to positions of power. It actually makes sense if you think about it. Otherwise only the rich would run for office, as they often do, but you still get the odd person who chooses public service over other potentially more lucrative careers.
"Tax(idermy) the Rich!"
-clever protest sign
But we're doing so well, and according to the loose modern American definition of the word, we're "socialists!" Where's the fun in that if you can't rub everyone's nose in it?
Last edited by JuniperWoolf; 02-02-2012 at 04:56 AM.
__________________
"Personal note: When I was a little kid my mother told me not to stare into the sun. So once when I was six, I did. At first the brightness was overwhelming, but I had seen that before. I kept looking, forcing myself not to blink, and then the brightness began to dissolve. My pupils shrunk to pinholes and everything came into focus and for a moment I understood. The doctors didn't know if my eyes would ever heal."
-Pi
This is weird. My second post was gone, now it's back. Odd.
This thread is not discussing economics per se but bankers bonuses which are a single facet of the economy. If people stick to the bonus question, which is currently outside governmental remit, the thread may remain open for further comment.
"L'art de la statistique est de tirer des conclusions erronèes a partir de chiffres exacts." Napoléon Bonaparte.
"Je crois que beaucoup de gens sont dans cet état d’esprit: au fond, ils ne sentent pas concernés par l’Histoire. Mais pourtant, de temps à autre, l’Histoire pose sa main sur eux." Michel Houellebecq.
(in whining voice) Because I don't have a country to root for and would feel left out of the game"Tax(idermy) the Rich!"
-clever protest sign
But we're doing so well, and according to the loose modern American definition of the word, we're "socialists!" Where's the fun in that if you can't rub everyone's nose in it?
(stomps away)
I've been trying to form a response that doesn't step into Serious Cat's litter tray but it is a little difficult. So I'll just say that I don't agree with this level of bonus or the top whacking salaries no way. However arguing about them is too little, too late, bolting the door after the horse and lots and lots of other clichés rolled into one.
I am equally annoyed though by the same tame excuse (threats) that come around each year that they'll take their talents overseas if they're not allowed to cream off millions and millions. For me that's got to be one of the most pathetic justifications I have ever heard.
It does come back to Serious Cat's litter tray though, where arguing about the contrast switch on a broken TV somewhat misses the point anyway.
There may be some bankers who good at what they do but if they are getting a salary that's 64 times the average person's, as it's reported the head of RBS gets, then that should be more than enough to satisfy his living requirements.
There should be no bonuses given to people on that kind of salary, but when they are the ones who actually award themselves a bonus, that's simply inexcusable. It's also an insult for any restrictions on bonuses to be for this year only which allows them to get up their old tricks next year and beyond.
This cartoon is amusing but it highlights the absurd situation that bankers have created in their own favour.
"L'art de la statistique est de tirer des conclusions erronèes a partir de chiffres exacts." Napoléon Bonaparte.
"Je crois que beaucoup de gens sont dans cet état d’esprit: au fond, ils ne sentent pas concernés par l’Histoire. Mais pourtant, de temps à autre, l’Histoire pose sa main sur eux." Michel Houellebecq.
I think it depends on what they do with the money. I like to believe the over-stuffed buy and care for precious works of art which galleries can't afford, and one day hopefully donate their collections.
If I hear they're installing gold dunnies in their mansions it's a turn-off, but who's to say what is and isn't art these days, and I suppose it can always be melted down.
Of those mansions and castles: they should be kept in good condition for posterity, yes? And who else wants to live in one? Especially considering the cost to air condition, clean, retain gardeners etc, and everyone's income ultimately matches their expenditure.
In their own twisted, disruptive, non-productive way, the well-off do try to do good, even if someone has to lose their crappy house in their crappy suburb - or better - their small over-priced business which was probably doomed to failure anyway.
We must always remember that there would be no cheap air travel without a first class section
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