mythology and religion in art

[ftil]

Let's look at fleur de lis.

Goddess Isis







Ancient fleur-de-lis on the Assyrian cherub god.








Chapelle royale (royal chapel) of the Palace of Versailles in Versailles, France.







Château de Versailles (France)





Détail de la frise de fleurs de lys sur la façade de la cathédrale Saint-Pierre-et-Saint-Paul de Troyes, 13ème siècle. And chimera.






One of the 18 Renaissance stained glass windows of Auch cathedral by Arnaud de Moles.








St John Baptist. Stained glass window, Chateau de Breteuil, Chapel, France





Fleur-de-lis in the coat of arms of Pope Paul VI








Fence with fleur-de-lis on Buckingham Palace in London.





Pavement in the Chapter house of the Fontevraud Abbey




Boston Massachusetts: Floor in State House with fleur-de-lis mosaic design





We may find fleur-de-lis in many Coat of Arms as well as logo of The Priory of Sion.

The Priory of Sion , mentioned for the first time in 1956 , is a secret society . In a series of documents typed writing and filed with the National Library in the mid 1960's , entitled Secret Files of Henri Lobineau , Plantard this as a brotherhood the Priory dating back to 1099 , related to the Order of the Temple in France.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prieur%C3%A9_de_Sion

[ftil]

Let's look at Jason and Medea myth, a devotee of Hecate, goddess of witchcraft and magic.

Jason was a late ancient Greek mythological hero from the late 10th Century BC, famous as the leader of the Argonauts and their quest for the Golden Fleece. He was the son of Aeson, the rightful king of Iolcus. He was married to the sorceress Medea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason

In Greek mythology, the Golden Fleece is the fleece of the gold-haired winged ram, which can be procured in Colchis. It figures in the tale of Jason and his band of Argonauts, who set out on a quest by order of King Pelias for the fleece in order to place Jason rightfully on the throne of Iolcus in Thessaly. The story is of great antiquity – it was current in the time of Homer (eighth century BC) – and consequently it survives in various forms, among which details vary. Thus, in later versions of the story, the ram is said to have been the offspring of the sea god Poseidon and Themisto (less often, Nephele or Theophane).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Fleece

Medea was a devotee of the goddess Hecate, and one of the great sorceresses of the ancient world. She was the daughter of King Aeetes of Colchis, and the granddaughter of Helios, the sun god.
King Aeetes' most valuable possession was a golden ram's fleece. When Jason and the crew of the Argo arrived at Colchis seeking theGolden Fleece, Aeetes was unwilling to relinquish it and set Jason a series of seemingly impossible tasks as the price of obtaining it. Medea fell in love with Jason and agreed to use her magic to help him, in return for Jason's promise to marry her.
Jason fled in the Argo after obtaining the golden fleece, taking Medea and her younger brother, Absyrtis, with him. King Aeetes pursued them. In order to delay the pursuit, Medea killed her brother and cut his body into pieces, scattering the parts behind the ship. The pursuers had to stop and collect Absyrtis' dismembered body in order to give it proper burial, and so Jason, Medea and the Argonauts escaped.
After the Argo returned safely to Iolcus, Jason's home, Medea continued using her sorcery. She restored the youth of Jason's aged father,Aeson, by cutting his throat and filling his body with a magical potion. She then offered to do the same for Pelias the king of Iolcus who had usurped Aeson's throne. She tricked Pelias' daughters into killing him, but left the corpse without any youth-restoring potion.
After the murder of Pelias, Jason and Medea had to flee Iolcus; they settled next in Corinth. There Medea bore Jason two children before Jason forsook her in order to marry the daughter of Creon, the king of Corinth. Medea got revenge for Jason's desertion by killing the new bride with a poisoned robe and crown which burned the flesh from her body; King Creon died as well when he tried to embrace his dying daughter. Medea fled Corinth in a chariot, drawn by winged dragons, which belonged to her grandfather Helios. She took with her the bodies of her two children, whom she had murdered in order to give Jason further pain.
Medea then took refuge with Aegeus, the old king of Athens, having promised him that she would use her magic to enable him to have more children. She married Aegeus and bore him a son, Medus. But Aegeus had another son, Theseus. When Theseus returned to Athens, Medea tried to trick her husband into poisoning him. She was unsuccessful, and had to flee Athens, taking Medus with her. After leaving Athens, Medus became king of the country which was later called Media.
http://www.pantheon.org/articles/m/medea.html

I have just noticed the same image as Medusa, goddess Kali, and the images on Aztec's calendar.



Jason and the Snake, Vatican







Jason seizing the Golden Fleece, fragment of a sarcophagus. Luni marble, Roman artwork, second half of the 2nd century AD.







Medea is slitting Aeson’s throat and catching his thin blood in a chalice, preparing to pour the elixir down his throat to make him younger. On the far left, is Medea praying to her patron gods to grant her the power to make Aeson young again. The cauldron boils and bubbles with the magical potion that will rejuvenate Aeson. Devils fly above, signifying Medea’s evil. The sky swirls and bellows, showing approval of the gods to Medea. In both sections, there is a white billowing cloud near Medea, showing the potency of her magical art. On the altar, there are numerous incense candles, further showing the mysticism of the scene.
http://owlnet.overlake.org/Academics...astor/art.html







Medea rejuvenated an old ram into a young lamb. She is holding a knife with which she killed the ram, and the lamb inside the cauldron is the old ram reborn. The woman on the left is Pelias’s daughter. She is here to witness the rebirth of the lamb. Pelias’s daughter is exclaiming that the ram is now a lamb, and that her father could be young again.






Medea, Evelyn de Morgan.







Eugène Delacroix, Medea






Jason and Medea by John William Waterhouse.






Anthony Frederick Augustus Sandys, Medea






Medea, Alfons Mucha





Anselm Feuerbach, Medea






Jason and Medea, Gustave Moreau







Paul Cézanne, Medea





Jason and Medea, von Joseph Käßmann, 1829

[mogarbobac]

hello everyone maybe you can help me im looking for an oil painting similar to this one


in the painting im looking for is a woman in a white silk see-thru gown, she has curly hair and wears laurels. shes standing under a archway or doorway looking at small birds bathe in a saucer. it seems to be a Romanesk or greek painting judging by the architecture but i believe it might be made within the 18th century. i had a print of it and lost it and having a hell of a time finding it again. please help ty

[ftil]

Let's have fun.

Let's look at god Apollo again.



A statue of Apollo Lykeios type,withPython.Roman copy of a Greek original.Louvre


I have noticed that Apollo looks quite feminine. LOL!



The Apollo Sauroctonos by Praxiteles (360 BC).Louvre





Johann Joachim Kaendler: Apoll und die Musen auf dem Parnass, Porzellan; Meissen, um 1750, Museum für Angewandte Kunst Frankfurt am Main.





Vienna, Schönbrunn gardens, statue Apollo 1773-1780





Apollo with the griffin, Musei Capitolini, Rome.





Michelangelo - Apollo




Gustave Moreau Apollo and the Satyrs

In Greek mythology, Hyacinth was given various parentage, providing local links, as the son of Clio and Pierus, King ofMacedon, or of king Oebalus of Sparta, or of kingAmyclas,[2] progenitor of the people of Amyclae, dwellers about Sparta. His cult at Amyclae, where his tomb was located, at the feet of Apollo's statue, dates from theMycenaean era.In the literary myth, Hyacinth was a beautiful boy and lover of the god Apollo , though he was also admired by West Wind, Zephyr. Apollo and Hyacinth took turns throwing thediscus. Hyacinth ran to catch it to impress Apollo, was struck by the discus as it fell to the ground, and died.[3] A twist in the tale makes the wind god Zephyrus responsible for the death of Hyacinth.[4] His beauty caused a feud between Zephyrus and Apollo. Jealous that Hyacinth preferred the radiant archery god Apollo, Zephyrus blew Apollo's discus off course, so as to injure and kill Hyacinth. When he died, Apollo didn't allow Hades to claim the boy; rather, he made a flower, the hyacinth, from his spilled blood. According to Ovid's account, the tears of Apollo stained the newly formed flower's petals with ai, ai, the sign of his grief. The flower of the mythological Hyacinth has been identified with a number of plants other than the true hyacinth, such as the iris. According to a local Spartan version of the myth, Hyacinth and his sister Polyboea were taken to heaven by Aphrodite, Athena and Artemis.
Hyacinth was the tutelary deity of one of the principal Spartan festivals, the Hyacinthia, held every summer. The festival lasted three days, one day of mourning for the death of the divine hero Hyacinth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyacinth_(mythology)

Jean Broc (1771-1850), The Death of Hyacinth. Hyacinth is the figure on the left of the frame being supported by his lover Apollo.





Giovanni Tiepolo (1696-1770), The death of Hyacinth.






From the book: Albert Moll, Handbuch der Sexualwissenschaften, Verlag Von F.C. Vogel, Leipzig . Picture by Stefano Bolognini.

HERMAPHRODITOS (or Hermaphroditus) was the god of hermaphrodites and of effeminate men. He was numbered amongst the winged love-gods known as Erotes.
Hermaphroditos was a son of Hermes and Aphrodite, the gods of male and female sexuality.
In Greek vase painting Hermaphroditos was depicted as a winged youth with male and female attributes: usually female thighs, breasts, and style of hair, and male genitalia.
http://www.theoi.com/Ouranios/ErosHermaphroditos.html

HERMAPHRODITUS
Museum Collection: Museum of Art, Rhode Island School of Design, New York City, USA
Date: ca 340 BC
Period: Late Classical
SUMMARY
Hermaphroditos is depicted as a winged eros (love god) in the form of a young woman (breasts, thighs, and hair-style) with male genitalia. He/she chases a hare, an animal which for the Greeks symbolized sexual desire.





Sleeping Hermaphroditus.Louvre




Ancient Roman fresco of Pan and Hermaphroditus from the House of Dioscuri in Pompeii, Naples, Italy.





Avalokiteshvara as Androgyne

A further striking feature of the iconography of Avalokiteshvara are the feminine traits which many of his portraits display. He seems, as an enigmatic being between virgin and boy with soft features and rounded breasts, to unite both sexes within himself.
As god of the dead (Yama) and snarling monster Avalokiteshvara also holds the “wheel of life” in his claws, which is in truth a “death wheel” (a sign of rebirth) in Buddhism. Among the twelve fundamental evils etched into the rim of the wheel which make an earthly/human existence appear worthless can be found “sexual love”, “pregnancy” and “birth”.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/so.../Part-2-01.htm

We also have androgynous Baphomet.








Satyr & Satyress Riccio, Andrea (Andrea Briosco) 1510-1520
Let's look at paintings.


Jusepe de Ribera, (1591 – 1652), Magdalena Ventura with Her Husband and Son.




Giovanni Battista Caracciolo (1578–1635), Lamentation of Adam and Eve on the Dead Abel.





Venus and Adonis, Giovanni Battista Caracciolo


I was looking at William Blake's paintings. Female are quite masculine.









Did gods dreams come true?

[YesNo]

Apollo does look effeminate or at least boyish. If he did get older than say, 14, how is it that he could shave but not cut his hair?

[ftil]

Apollo does look effeminate or at least boyish. If he did get older than say, 14, how is it that he could shave but not cut his hair?

Hm...I think that gods don't need to shave or cut their hair. After all, they are gods.


Let's go back to Medea, and goddess Hecate.

Hellenistic religion

Magic was practiced widely, and these too, were a continuation from earlier times. Throughout the Hellenistic world, people would consult oracles, and use charms and figurines to deter misfortune or to cast spells. Also developed in this era was the complex system of astrology, which sought to determine a person's character and future in the movements of the sun, moon, and planets. The systems of Hellenistic philosophy, such as Stoicism and Epicureanism, offered an alternative to traditional religion, even if their impact was largely limited to the educated elite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenistic_religion

HEKATE (or Hecate) was the goddess of magic, witchcraft, the night, moon, ghosts and necromancy. Hekate was usually depicted in Greek vase painting as a woman holding twin torches.

HECATE GODDESS OF THE NIGHT

"Torch-bearing Hekate holy daughter of great-bosomed Nyx (Night)." - Greek Lyric IV Bacchylides, Frag 1B

"Hekate ... pleased with dark ghosts that wander through the shade ... nightly seen." - Orphic Hymn 1 to Hecate

GODDESS OF NECROMANCY & GHOSTS
The gods Hekate, Persephone and Haides presided over the oracles of the dead and the art of necromancy, the summoning forth of the ghosts of the dead.

"The lady Hekate was minister and companion to Persephone [goddess of the underworld]." - Homeric Hymn 2 to Demeter 436

"Hekate ... pleased with dark ghosts that wander through the shade; Perseis, solitary goddess." - Orphic Hymn 1 to Hecate

"The Sibyl [performing the rites of necromancy at the oracle of the dead at Cumae] first lined up four black-skinned bullocks, poured a libation wine upon their foreheads, and then, plucking the topmost hairs from between their brows, she placed these on the altar fires as an initial offering, calling aloud upon Hecate, powerful in heaven and hell. While other laid their knives to these victim’s throats, and caught the fresh warm blood in bowls, Aeneas sacrifices a black-fleeced lamb to Nox (Night), the mother of the Furiae, and her great sister, Terra (earth), and a barren heifer to Proserpine. Then he [Aeneas] set up altars by night to the god of the Underworld [Hades], laying upon the flames whole carcases of bulls and pouring out rich oil over the burning entrails. But listen! - at the very first crack of dawn, the ground underfoot began to mutter, the woody ridges to quake, and a baying of hounds was heard through the half-light: the goddess was coming, Hecate. [a path then opened up for the Sibyl & Aeneas to travel down to Hades]." - Virgil, Aeneid 6.257

HEKATE GODDESS OF WITCHCRAFT

I) GODDESS OF MAGIC

"[Athena] sprinkled her [Arakhne] with drugs of Hecate (Hecateidos herbae), and in a trice, touched by the bitter lotion [the girl was metamorphosed into a spider]." - Ovid, Metamorphoses 6.139


Hekate was the source of the magical power of the witch Medea. Most of her magic is described as nocturnal and / or necromantic.

"[Argos, nephew of Medea, to Jason:] ’You have heard me speak of a young woman [Medea] who practices witchcraft under the tutelage of the goddess Hekate. If we could win her over, we might banish from our minds all fear of your defeat in the ordeal [yoking the fire breathing bulls of Aeetes]." - Apollonius Rhodius, Argonautica 3.478


"She [Medea] meant to reach the temple [of Hekate]. She knew the road well enough, having often roamed in that direction searching for corpses [for necromantic rites] or for noxious roots, as witches do." - Apollonius Rhodius, Argonautica 4.48
She [Medea] reinforced her words with magic, scattering to the four winds spells of such potency as would have drawn wild creatures far away to come down from their mountain fastnesses." - Apollonius Rhodius, Argonautica 4.442

Then, with incantations, she invoked the Keres (Spirits of Death), the swift hounds of Haides (kunes Aidao) who feed on souls and haunt the lower air to pounce on living men. She sank to her knees and called upon them, three times in song, three times with spoken prayers. She steeled herself of their malignity and bewitched the eyes of Talos with the evil in her own. She flung at him the full force of her malevolence, and in an ecstasy of rage she plied him with images of death.
Apollonius Rhodius, Argonautica 4.1659

"They [the Argonauts] made fast their stern cables on the Paphlagonian coast at the mouth of the River Halys. Medea had told them to land there and propitiate Hekate with a sacrifice. But with what ritual she prepared the offering, no one must hear. Nor must I let myself be tempted to describe it; my lips are sealed by awe. But the altar they built for the goddess on the beach is still there for men of a later age to see." - Apollonius Rhodius, Argonautica 4.245

"In the deep stillness of the midnight hour ... she [Medea] stretched her arms to the stars ... O Nox [Nyx the Night], Mother of Mysteries, and all ye golden Astra (Stars) who with Luna [Selene the Moon] succeed the fires of day, and thou, divine triceps (three-formed) Hecate, who knowest all my enterprises and dost fortify the arts of magic." - Ovid, Metamorphoses 7.162
http://www.theoi.com/Khthonios/Hekate.html

HERAKLES & KERBEROS
Museum Collection: Antikensammlungen, Munich, Germany
Date: ca 330 - 310 BC
Period: Late Classical / Early Hellenistic

SUMMARY
Detail of Kerberos and Hekate from a scene showing the journey of Orpheus to the Underworld. Hekate is shown dressed as a huntress, and wielding a pair of Eleusinian torches. Herakles (not shown) is dragging Kerberos away on a lead.



HEKATE or ARTEMIS
Museum Collection: State Hermitage Museum, St Petersburg, Russia
Date: ca 500 - 450 BC
Period: Early Classical

SUMMARY
Hekate (or Artemis) is here depicted crowned and holding a pair of burning torches.




[IMG]HEKATE Museum Collection: Metropolitan Museum, New York City, USA Period: Classical SUMMARY Detail of Hekate from a painting depicting the return of Persephone to the upper world. The goddess holds a pair of burning torches.[/IMG]





HEKATE & IAKKHOS
Museum Collection: State Hermitage Museum, St Petersburg, Russia

Date: ca. 350 BC
Period: Late Classical
SUMMARY
Side A: Detail of Hekate and Iakkhos from a painting depicting the gods of Eleusis. Other figures (not shown) include Ploutos, Persephone, Demeter, Eros, Triptolemos, Herakles, Zeus and Nike. Hekate stands between the enthroned goddesses, Demeter and Persephone, holding a pair of burning torches in her hands.LIakkhos holds one upturned and one downturned torch.

In Greek mythology, Iacchus (also Iacchos, Iakchos) is an epithet of Dionysus. Iacchus was the torch bearer of the procession from Eleusis, sometimes regarded as the herald of the 'divine child' of the Goddess, born in the underworld, and sometimes as the child itself. Iacchus was called "the light-bringing star of our nocturnal rite", giving him possible associations withSirius and Sothis.
summon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iacchus

The Hecate Chiaramonti, a Roman sculpture of triple Hecate, after a Hellenistic original (Museo Chiaramonti, Vatican Museums




Hecate




Hecate





The Night of Enitharmon's Joy Blake's vision of Hecate, Greek goddess of black magic and the underworld and Three Fates.






Hecate






Lucien Lévy Dhurmer
French
1865-1953
"Sorceress"

[Paulclem]

As god of the dead (Yama) and snarling monster Avalokiteshvara also holds the “wheel of life” in his claws, which is in truth a “death wheel” (a sign of rebirth) in Buddhism. Among the twelve fundamental evils etched into the rim of the wheel which make an earthly/human existence appear worthless can be found “sexual love”, “pregnancy” and “birth”.

This information is incorrect. Yama is not the wrathful incarnation of Avolokiteshvara. It is Mahalkala. (Scroll down the link below)

http://www.exoticindiaart.com/article/mahakala/

The site you have referenced has an agenda against HH The Dalai Lama, and it looks like Tibetan Buddhism in paticular. For example -

Among the twelve fundamental evils etched into the rim of the wheel which make an earthly/human existence appear worthless can be found “sexual love”, “pregnancy” and “birth”.

This quote is completely misleading. The 12 Dependant Links around the outside of the Wheel Of Life do not suggest that human life is worthless. They are inteded to signify the process by which reincarnation, birth ageing sickness and death work. I think the site is intended to mislead.

[YesNo]

http://www.exoticindiaart.com/article/mahakala/

The site you have referenced has an agenda against HH The Dalai Lama, and it looks like Tibetan Buddhism in paticular. For example -

Interesting articles on that site, Exotic India, Paulclem. I've bookmarked it to go over some of the others.

I couldn't find the original link that had an agenda against the Dalai Lama, but I assume this is different from the political tension between China and Tibet.

[YesNo]

Lucien Lévy Dhurmer
French
1865-1953
"Sorceress"

Not a bad looking sorceress. She has everything, black cat, snake, lizard, potion, wand and bats, but no wart on the nose.

[ftil]

[QUOTE=Paulclem;1065171]As god of the dead (Yama) and snarling monster Avalokiteshvara also holds the “wheel of life” in his claws, which is in truth a “death wheel” (a sign of rebirth) in Buddhism. Among the twelve fundamental evils etched into the rim of the wheel which make an earthly/human existence appear worthless can be found “sexual love”, “pregnancy” and “birth”.

This information is incorrect. Yama is not the wrathful incarnation of Avolokiteshvara. It is Mahalkala. (Scroll down the link below)

http://www.exoticindiaart.com/article/mahakala/

The site you have referenced has an agenda against HH The Dalai Lama, and it looks like Tibetan Buddhism in paticular. For example -

Among the twelve fundamental evils etched into the rim of the wheel which make an earthly/human existence appear worthless can be found “sexual love”, “pregnancy” and “birth”.

Thank you for your comments. I don’t have the impression that the author of this book has an agenda against Dalai Lama but he is exposing what we have not been told. If you look at references you will find a quite impressive list of books, Tibetan authors included based on which he wrote his book. Madame Blavatsky went to Tibet and India where she received her teachings. Interestingly enough, she didn’t reveal her teachings she received in Tibet. We may ask why she kept secret. The author is aware of if and he tries to reveal as much as it was revealed. I believe that we need to start question everything rather than blindly follow the teachings.

References.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/so...ferences.htmIf

[Paulclem]

The opulent sun symbolism which is so closely linked to the figure of this Buddha has led several western oriented scholars to describe Buddhism in total as a solar cult.

The two examples I highlighted and the use of the word "cult" which appears above, plus lots of references in the text to tantric sex, and the implied attacks on HH convince me that this site is unreliable and has an agenda.

Why would the person - or persons - who wrote this site and who are clearly informed about Tibetan Buddhism - make such a basic mistake as to equate Avolokiteshvara with Yama? HH The Dalai Lama is Avolkiteshvara's incarnation. It is a basic and damaging mistake.

During the ritual a falcon with a snake in its claws is supposed to have appeared in the sky. In it the participants saw the mythic bird, garuda, representing the patriarchal power which destroys the feminine in the form of a snake. [4] Do we have here the image of a tantric wish according to which the West is already supposed to fall into the clutches of Tibetan Buddhism in the near future?


If this isn't an attack on HH The Dalai Lama - through an attack on the Kalachakra Ceremony - then I don't know what is.

The author is aware of if and he tries to reveal as much as it was revealed. I believe that we need to start question everything rather than blindly follow the teachings.

You need to be aware that there are interested parties for whom the discrediting of HH and Tibetan Buddhism in particular is desirable. Shugden supporters are mentioned, but westerners are mentioned a number of times leading me to suspect that this is a Chinese sponsored site.

Your advice to me is misplaced. The The Buddha's own words at the end if his life were to say "Be a lamp to yourself". It is one of the reasons I admire Buddhism.

All I'm saying is that this site has an agenda and is unreliable as I have tried to show you. Don't base you views on it. All the best.

[Paulclem]

Interesting articles on that site, Exotic India, Paulclem. I've bookmarked it to go over some of the others.

I couldn't find the original link that had an agenda against the Dalai Lama, but I assume this is different from the political tension between China and Tibet.

Thanks YesNo.

The site makes some very anti - Buddhist and anti-Dalai Lama claims. I suspect it is of Chinese origin.

[stlukesguild]

hello everyone maybe you can help me im looking for an oil painting similar to this one


in the painting im looking for is a woman in a white silk see-thru gown, she has curly hair and wears laurels. shes standing under a archway or doorway looking at small birds bathe in a saucer. it seems to be a Romanesk or greek painting judging by the architecture but i believe it might be made within the 18th century. i had a print of it and lost it and having a hell of a time finding it again. please help ty

Again, the painting is by William-Adolphe Bouguereau and is entitled Evening Mood. You may find a great wealth of Bouguereau's work at this site:

http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/M...ar_Artists.php

[ftil]

The opulent sun symbolism which is so closely linked to the figure of this Buddha has led several western oriented scholars to describe Buddhism in total as a solar cult.

The two examples I highlighted and the use of the word "cult" which appears above, plus lots of references in the text to tantric sex, and the implied attacks on HH convince me that this site is unreliable and has an agenda.

Why would the person - or persons - who wrote this site and who are clearly informed about Tibetan Buddhism - make such a basic mistake as to equate Avolokiteshvara with Yama? HH The Dalai Lama is Avolkiteshvara's incarnation. It is a basic and damaging mistake.

During the ritual a falcon with a snake in its claws is supposed to have appeared in the sky. In it the participants saw the mythic bird, garuda, representing the patriarchal power which destroys the feminine in the form of a snake. [4] Do we have here the image of a tantric wish according to which the West is already supposed to fall into the clutches of Tibetan Buddhism in the near future?


If this isn't an attack on HH The Dalai Lama - through an attack on the Kalachakra Ceremony - then I don't know what is.

The author is aware of if and he tries to reveal as much as it was revealed. I believe that we need to start question everything rather than blindly follow the teachings.

You need to be aware that there are interested parties for whom the discrediting of HH and Tibetan Buddhism in particular is desirable. Shugden supporters are mentioned, but westerners are mentioned a number of times leading me to suspect that this is a Chinese sponsored site.

Your advice to me is misplaced. The The Buddha's own words at the end if his life were to say "Be a lamp to yourself". It is one of the reasons I admire Buddhism.

All I'm saying is that this site has an agenda and is unreliable as I have tried to show you. Don't base you views on it. All the best.

Hm….. have you read a whole book to make an evaluation? I haven’t finished reading it and I can’t make up my mind yet. You may find this book on a number of websites and I think that you are making far-fetched conclusions by making assumptions about that particular website.

People are waking up. Scott Peck, the author of bestselling book The road less traveled had been practicing Buddhism for 20 years and left. S. Peck or the author of that book would be better for that kind of discussions as I didn’t study Buddhism to such a depth. Another example is Bronte Baxter who had been involved in Maharsishi movement for 17 yers and left too and her website is popular. There are more websites, of course, and I am happy about as I was involved in Eastern religions but not any more.

I understand that you have accepted Buddhist teaching without questioning. I am afraid that we would not have that much in common as I question everything. When we accept beliefs as the truth we look for all evidence that confirms our beliefs. I don’t do this but I constantly ask questions. Secondly I don’t give any advice but it is my deep wish that people start questioning. I stand strong for empowerment and following teachings without questioning is not empowering. We just repeat somebody’s truth. Finally, why Blavatsky kept a secret about teachings she received in Tibet. Would I trust any teacher who keep secretes?
Absolutely not!

Food for thought.

Excerpt from The Secret Doctrine by H. P. Blavatsky — Vol. 2


VOL. 2, PAGE 233 HOLY SATAN.

The true esoteric view about “Satan,” the opinion held on this subject by the whole philosophic antiquity, is admirably brought out in an appendix, entitled “The Secret of Satan,” to the second edition of Dr. A. Kingsford’s “Perfect Way.” No better and clearer indication of the truth could be offered to the intelligent reader, and it is therefore quoted here at some length: —

“1. And on the seventh day (seventh creation of the Hindus),* there went forth from the presence of God a mighty Angel, full of wrath and consuming, and God gave him the dominion of the outermost sphere.†

2. “Eternity brought forth Time; the Boundless gave birth to Limit; Being descended into generation.”‡

4. “Among the Gods is none like unto him, into whose hands are committed the kingdoms, the power and the glory of the worlds:”

5. “Thrones and empires, the dynasties of kings,§ the fall of nations, the birth of churches, the triumph of Time.”

For, as is said in Hermes, “Satan is the door-keeper of the Temple of the King; he standeth in Solomon’s porch; he holdeth the key of the Sanctuary, that no man enter therein, save the Anointed having the arcanum of Hermes” (v. 20 and 21).

These suggestive and majestic verses had reference with the ancient Egyptians and other civilized peoples of antiquity to the creative and generative light of the Logos (Horus, Brahma, Ahura-Mazda, etc., etc., as primeval manifestations of the ever-unmanifested Principle, e.g., Ain-Soph, Parabrahm, or ZeruanaAkerne — Boundless Time — Kala)

VOL. 2, PAGE 234 THE SECRET DOCTRINE

33. “Satan is the minister of God, Lord of the seven mansions of Hades” . . . .
The seven or Saptaloka of the Earth with the Hindus; for Hades, or the Limbo of Illusion, of which theology makes a region bordering on Hell, is simply our globe, the Earth, and thus Satan is called —
33 “. . . . the angel of the manifest Worlds.”
It is “Satan who is the god of our planet and the only god,” and this without any allusive metaphor to its wickedness and depravity. For he is one with the Logos, “the first son, eldest of the gods,” in the order.

Madame Blavatsky, I don't think so!

[Paulclem]

Hm….. have you read a whole book to make an evaluation? I haven’t finished reading it and I can’t make up my mind yet. You may find this book on a number of websites and I think that you are making far-fetched conclusions by making assumptions about that particular website.

People are waking up. Scott Peck, the author of bestselling book The road less traveled had been practicing Buddhism for 20 years and left. S. Peck or the author of that book would be better for that kind of discussions as I didn’t study Buddhism to such a depth. Another example is Bronte Baxter who had been involved in Maharsishi movement for 17 yers and left too and her website is popular. There are more websites, of course, and I am happy about as I was involved in Eastern religions but not any more.

I understand that you have accepted Buddhist teaching without questioning. I am afraid that we would not have that much in common as I question everything. When we accept beliefs as the truth we look for all evidence that confirms our beliefs. I don’t do this but I constantly ask questions. Secondly I don’t give any advice but it is my deep wish that people start questioning. I stand strong for empowerment and following teachings without questioning is not empowering. We just repeat somebody’s truth. Finally, why Blavatsky kept a secret about teachings she received in Tibet. Would I trust any teacher who keep secretes?
Absolutely not!

Food for thought.




Madame Blavatsky, I don't think so!

My conclusions are not far fetched - the purpose of the website is clear. It is of course up to you what conclusions you draw. The quote you used about Avolokiteshvara is wrong - so there are problems with validity in the site - but it doesn't take much depth of reading to note the agenda. I'm only pointing it out so you can check yourself.

I'm not familiar with Scott Peck, but a number of people have trained in Buddhism and left very publicly. It's up to the individual and aways their choice. Buddhism is not without disputes and problems.

I understand that you have accepted Buddhist teaching without questioning.

Did I?

I stand strong for empowerment and following teachings without questioning is not empowering. We just repeat somebody’s truth.

The teachings are about finding out whether what is taught is true. A suck it and see approach. I like that. The purpose of the teacher is to guide the student as they make their journey. No-one can make it for them. A road map is useful though.

Finally, why Blavatsky kept a secret about teachings she received in Tibet. Would I trust any teacher who keep secretes?
Absolutely not!

Madame Blavatsky has nothng to do with Tibetan Buddhism. She claimed that she had received teachings from Lamas in Tibet - perhaps she did - but it didn't emerge in her own stuff. As a Spiritualist with a dodgy reputation -Spiritualists don't use or refer to her - Tibetan Buddhism would have made her books etc exotic and interesting at that time as no-one knew much about the place. For a long time it had been closed to foreigners.

Thee are teachings kept secret in Buddhism though. It's not so surprising really. The wrathful Deities referred to such as Mahakala - the wrathful form of Avolkieshvara - is one of the Tantric deities. Tantra is secret because it is very potent. It is secret for a purpose until a serious practitioner is ready. We all know how it can be misinterpreted.

Paintings have own language and I can't agree with " authority" interpretation.

Do you have a problem with authority? Questioning is good, but don't you think there needs to be a purpose resolved in the end? In this thread I see you putting up these brilliant images with no interpretation, no linking idea and no input from you. The brief to encourage people to do their own investigation - to what? At some point there nees to be a guide, a premise and discussion. The guide is you - what's your thoughts?