Off topic one last time on this thread.Originally Posted by Neely
Off post topic sorry. However, there is something about Vonny that just makes me want to hug her!!!
Thank you Neely, you're so sweet! For some reason I felt my self-esteem plummeting all afternoon after writing all this drivel that simply came out wrong, and then I didn't know how to fix it. You made me feel better!
Where I live there are billboards all along the highways that "advertise" Jesus. Last week I was traveling between Coeur d'Alene and Post Falls, which are towns just a few miles apart, but we drive the interstate. I saw at least 2 billboards which said "He will draw you closer to Him," and such. And these signs are in addition to the churches and the church signs.
A few weeks ago when my brother drove through Montana, he saw a giant billboard by the interstate that said, "In this valley, Jesus Christ is Lord."
There are no Muslims where I live. There are no Sikhs. I don't know what a Sikh is. I read in the newspaper that there are a few isolated Jews here, but I don't know where. Also, there are no blacks, no Asians or anything else. When I say there are NONE, I mean there are very, very few.
I've been in the Costco store in CdA a couple of times recently when the store was very busy. If you don't know what Costco is, it's a very large major store. When I look around in there, I don't see a single black person - I mean not one. You don't see a single Asian. Well, occasionally there could be one, but usually not. I saw one woman who looked perhaps Mexican. Occasionally you see a family that has come over from Washington for the day, that is something like Mexican. But it is rare to see a black family, ever. There are a couple of "token" blacks that work at Costco. I think, by law, they have to hire one or two - that law must be a federal law because it would never be a state law. The black persons who work at Costco don't live in Idaho, they live in Washington and commute. I think there is one apartment complex in this area where some blacks and Mexicans live, but for some reason, they aren't seen around town. Also, when you look around in the store, everyone is dressed similarly - now for summer, a lot of loose, casual clothes, such as shorts with a shirt hanging out...
...I was speaking to one of the A.N. He's kind of an unofficial member, as many are. I asked him what's going on with them. He said there has been a plan on the table for some time to take back Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, and I think Utah and part of Canada to make an all-white zone. He said, "We could do it easily because there's only a mud colored person here and there in these states." He said, "We could clear them out of Washington too, even though there are many minorities there, we could easily clear them out." He said, "We've got the guns!"...
this is just a point I want to make because it seems that here on the forum people don't believe this is true. I've become very aware of our difference from coming here and reading how people interact with Muslims and whatnot on a daily basis, and I'm in a different world. Varenne, I really don't know why we have no minorities, maybe we don't have all the poor people - yet, anyway.
In CdA there are a group of men who have a computer repair business, and they are all gay. They even have a picture of two of them getting married setting out. This is very new for here, and they are taking a chance. They couldn't do it in a small town.
I know of a woman who had a boyfriend from Tailand. I don't know how she met him, but he moved here. He was determined that he was going to stay here, but after he got beat up a couple of times, he moved to Hawaii. She also had a black boyfriend who came over from Washington for a weekend. He didn't understand why they couldn't go out together to a bar here. This woman is actually rather daring, but she said she told him, "You just don't understand!!" They did go out somewhere together, but she said that it was an uncomfortable evening.
Vonny... What third world part of the United States are you living in? I live in the mid-west... Ohio... which for some time now has become known as a haven of Conservatism. In spite of this my next door neighbor is black with a white wife. The neighbors across the street are Puerto Rican. I share an art studio with an older Jewish artist, a Korean and a Chinese guy. My Jewish friend (I'm of German heritage) regularly eat in a diner owned and operated by a Palestinian with whom we regularly discuss politics. We just got home from dinner at a Lebanese restaurant. There are neighborhoods around the city that are Chinese, Jewish, Arabic, Puerto-Rican, Russian, Black, Italian, etc... I can't imagine such a homogeneous culture such as you speak of. Why do you stay? I haven't seen such in any of the areas of the US that I have traveled in.
I seriously have to laugh at the back-woods boonies mentalities of your Bubbas imagining that they could easily retake control of the nation because they have a few guns. Do they honestly imagine that all the gang-bangers in the inner cities are unarmed? What are their numbers in relation to the population of the large cities and surrounding urban neighborhoods?
There was an article not so long ago dealing with the issue of American cities. For some time now there has been this false notion pushed by certain aspects of the press that the "real" America is to be found in the small town and burrows. It hearkens back to a sort of "Leave to Beaver" fantasy of the all white upper-middle-class neighborhoods with look-alike houses with picket fences. As a result, there has been a push to give tax breaks and other incentives to build houses and business in the suburbs (something that certainly favors the oil and auto industries) and beyond while the big cities struggle with issues of crime, substandard education, substandard services, etc... The author argued, and I agree, that if anything, it has always been the great cities that are the "real" America and that have been the driving force behind the nation. I can't imagine living any but the city.
Regardless of the beliefs of your few local racists, the nation as a whole is being continually transformed toward an increasingly multicultural mix. No... I don't buy into the "melting pot" image. Individuals from various cultures are not readily willing to surrender their native culture for some ideal universal American culture... nor should they. If there needs to be a metaphor, perhaps something akin to a great stew in which various elements mix together... yet retain their individual "taste" might be more apt. Cultural differences certainly lead to tensions from time to time... especially among those who refuse to associate with others outside of their own culture.
I, on the other hand, would be bored with a uniformity of culture of which you speak.
Last edited by stlukesguild; 08-12-2011 at 11:33 PM.
Beware of the man with just one book. -Ovid
The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the man who can't read them.- Mark Twain
My Blog: Of Delicious Recoil
http://stlukesguild.tumblr.com/
Have you driven to Texas StLukes? It's a terrifying experience, and Vonny isn't exaggerating. I live right next to St. Louis, MO, a relatively conservative city, but still diverse like what you describe (though, maybe not as much so). There's a difference between conservatives and complete right-wing loons that one will experience on the Arkansas/Texas border.
Yes, it is important what people do about it and how they act. However, not everybody has reached a certain level of maturity, and as such, they are quite reactive. It applies to any beliefs we hold as truth but religious beliefs can evoke quite heated discussions. I have seen on other forums discussions where enthusiasts of Buddhism, Hindu or Neopagan religions fought to death with Catholics. If they could look beyond their beliefs, they would loose interest to fight. I am sick and tired of watching people arguing and imposing their beliefs upon others. I am more practical than you as I look for tools.Empty talk doesn’t bring any changes.
Interesting enough, it seems as if the atheist individuals are the ones who want to impose their beliefs the most...Yes, it is important what people do about it and how they act. However, not everybody has reached a certain level of maturity, and as such, they are quite reactive. It applies to any beliefs we hold as truth but religious beliefs can evoke quite heated discussions. I have seen on other forums discussions where enthusiasts of Buddhism, Hindu or Neopagan religions fought to death with Catholics. If they could look beyond their beliefs, they would loose interest to fight. I am sick and tired of watching people arguing and imposing their beliefs upon others. I am more practical than you as I look for tools.
Les Miserables,
Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.
You keep saying that - but I can't see the evidence for it...
St Luke, I think that you should have said...BECAUSE of this. It seems that the media has been able to paint "conservatism" as being racist and prejudice. The reality is that Conservatives are the ones who are the most "color blind". We do not think that there should be any differences. We all are people. I can't believe that you implied that it is "in spite" of conservatism that the community has become diverse.
It seems that it was the atheists that were wanting to put a ban on religion....not the other way around. Yes....that was said HERE at this site. You will see what you want to see.
Les Miserables,
Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.
Have you driven to Texas StLukes? It's a terrifying experience, and Vonny isn't exaggerating. I live right next to St. Louis, MO, a relatively conservative city, but still diverse like what you describe (though, maybe not as much so). There's a difference between conservatives and complete right-wing loons that one will experience on the Arkansas/Texas border.
It's been a while since I've been through Texas. Certainly the big cities must have large populations of Mexican- and Black-Americans... but I can imagine on the vast isolated plains there is still a pre-Civil War mentality. Most of the where I have traveled more recently and frequently is the North-Eastern portion of the nation... from St.Louis (I visited for a Max Beckmann exhibition some years back) through the East Coast including Chicago, Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Washington D.C., Baltimore, Dover, New York, Jersey City, Newark, Boston, Providence, etc... I tend to focus on the big cities as my interests are focused upon cultural sites (museums, orchestras, etc...) but of course I have to travel through the surrounding suburbs and open rural landscapes to get from one point to the next.
Last edited by stlukesguild; 08-13-2011 at 02:58 AM.
Beware of the man with just one book. -Ovid
The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the man who can't read them.- Mark Twain
My Blog: Of Delicious Recoil
http://stlukesguild.tumblr.com/
Luke you are an intelligent man but you have not been to Idaho.
We do not have bi-racial couples here. We do not have black people in our stores, except for occasionally maybe one. Once in a while you see a white couple with a black or Chinese child.
There are a few Mexican restaurants. Mexicans are allowed to live here and operate those because people like the food. There are a couple of Chinese restaurants and even a new Thai one.
Some people have tattoos, but a minority. I don't see very many piercings.
In Ohio and in Pennsylvania there is that diversity even though it's Christian. But not here.
I hate to say it because I don't want to have another car on the road, but come on out and see for yourself.
And we don't have homeless people sleeping in parks because it is a crime to be homeless, and they are arrested.
There are lots of poor people here. And there are apartment buildings that are full of meth - I know this is a fact, but I don't see them because I don't go near them.
When you cross over into the state of Washington, it is a completely different world - piercings and tattoos galore, black people, people walking around with half their clothing falling off.
I know a woman, 23 years-old, who went to high school in Boise, in South Idaho. I forget right now what percentage of her high school was Latter Day Saints, but a lot. She plays soccer and she had a very difficult time with them. She is Christian but not LDS.
In the high schools in the larger cities, CdA and Post Falls, there are a few black kids, (very few) and they are accepted because they are good athletes. But no boy who appears gay can stay in high school and graduate. They are relentlessly bullied until they drop out.
I'm not saying that everyone is that kind of Christian, but it is a major force here.
Anyway, Ohio is not like Idaho. If you haven't been here and you don't know anyone who lives here and tells the truth, then you shouldn't discredit me.
Why do I stay here? I may move to Oregon someday, but I will always live in a low population density. I love Idaho. I like the remote areas, and the fact that it's only been a few years since a moose stopped traffic on Hwy 95. Of course, that's changing with more and more people coming in. I could never, ever live in a large city, even Coeur d'Alene.
Another thing, do you have cars with booming stereos on your streets? We don't - not even in CdA. Okay - some of the houseboats get rowdy, I admit.
I'd like to drop this subject now, at least for a day or two. If you think I need antipsychotic medication it's okay.
Last edited by Vonny; 08-13-2011 at 03:11 AM.
St Luke, I think that you should have said...BECAUSE of this. It seems that the media has been able to paint "conservatism" as being racist and prejudice. The reality is that Conservatives are the ones who are the most "color blind". We do not think that there should be any differences. We all are people. I can't believe that you implied that it is "in spite" of conservatism that the community has become diverse.
What I was suggesting was that in spite of the image of Ohio as a haven for Conservative extremists as per the 2nd Bush election and irregularities in the Ohio voting progress that delayed the final count making Ohio a joke on par with Florida:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aBaX9GPSaQ
we are far from being anywhere near the extremism that Vonny speaks of. I don't know that I'd buy the notion that Conservatives are less color-blind than Liberals. Certainly the Republicans have done well playing to the extreme Conservative fringe who are afraid of Blacks and Hispanics and Asians and Muslims and anything that "un-American". The problem I have with the Liberal fringe with regard to race is their refusal to acknowledge the failure of certain programs that may have began with the highest of intentions such as that generations of institutionalized Welfare that continues to reward mothers for having repeated children that they can't afford (especially if no father is present) and forced busing. Such programs have clearly served to maintain the cycle of poverty where money could be put to better use through education, job training, etc...
Beware of the man with just one book. -Ovid
The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the man who can't read them.- Mark Twain
My Blog: Of Delicious Recoil
http://stlukesguild.tumblr.com/
Yes....yes, there are. However, there are just as many, of not more among the other groups. Just because there are more Christians around it seems like there are more Christian bullies....it only takes a few....don't judge the rest of us due to THOSE morons.
Les Miserables,
Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.
Oh, man, thanks for that. I needed a laugh.
Like I said before...people will see what they want to see....and the media has presented a well developed propaganda. It is these kinds of prejudices that have made respect obsolete.
Les Miserables,
Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.
Oh, quit with the liberal controlled media BS. There's liberal controlled media, conservative controlled media, and everything in between, each producing their own propaganda. The liberal media argument has become so passé. It's a joke that conservatives still use it.
Since the majority of the networks are liberal controlled....it is still far left reaching. I don't care if you accept that or not...it's just the way it has always been.
Les Miserables,
Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.
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