A Song of Ice and Fire by George R. R. Martin

[mortalterror]

Yet, he continues to work on a ton of other projects. I think the guy just has the worst case of writer's block imaginable. I mean seriously it's been five freaking years since the last one and he supposedly had half the book already done five years ago (in his decision to split A Feast of Crows and the long-awaited Dance of Dragons)!

That's what I'm saying. He's got FU money now and can do whatever he wants, which doesn't include finishing this series. Meanwhile, HBO just drove another truckload of cash up to his house and dumped it on his lawn. You'll notice incidentally that the title of the series is A Game of Thrones, NOT A Song of Ice and Fire. If we get lucky and they pick up the series for sequential seasons he doesn't have to write another book for at least four years.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I think he's written himself into a deep hole, which he's pretty much admitted, calling his current process unraveling a great "Knot," or something of the like. He's created such a complicated story, he doesn't know where to go. Or, maybe he realizes he doesn't have the ability to write a satisfactory ending, for him or his fans.

I'm still hopeful that it will be finished, though. After-all, more books means more cash. Plus, I would be surprised if there isn't a desire to see his project through. I am prepared, though, to not get an ending.

[Drkshadow03]

That's what I'm saying. He's got FU money now and can do whatever he wants, which doesn't include finishing this series. Meanwhile, HBO just drove another truckload of cash up to his house and dumped it on his lawn. You'll notice incidentally that the title of the series is A Game of Thrones, NOT A Song of Ice and Fire. If we get lucky and they pick up the series for sequential seasons he doesn't have to write another book for at least four years.

Maybe. I think Mutatis has it right, though, and it's probably a bad case of writer's block. This was probably his most ambitious project to date in that previously all his novels have been single books, not 500-1000+ page multi-book monstrosities. He's probably stuck for that reason. It's like nothing he's ever written previously, and he has plenty of money to do what he feels like without worrying about putting food on the table.

Supposedly he's almost done with the next book. Rumor has it he only needs to finish 5 more chapters.

[Paulclem]

It's a great series. I hope he gets around to finishing it. I stumbled onto the first one and recommended it to my brother. We both eagerly awaited the next publication. This one has been a long time coming.

He's a good writer. I was impressed by the quality in Fevre Dream.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Yes, Fevre Dream is excellent.

And Drkshadow has it right in that this is completely different than anything he's written. All of his other stories, long and short, usually follow only a couple characters and have a strict beginning-middle-end structure, which ASOIAF definitely doesn't have,

And, I too heard the five-chapter thing a few months ago. I'm hesitant to put any stock on his updates concerning progress, haha.

[Mr.lucifer]

In my opinion, I think he lost interest in the series for a while.

[Grit]

I love this series...when the eggs are put in the fire and...well I don't want to spoil it but what happens after that was, for me, one of the most epic moments I've ever experienced in story. Up until that point, Daenerys fate was up in the air, her future reign could simply have been insanity or blind hopefulness. When that happened, however, all her talk of fate and bloodline was solidified and made very real.

As far as epic fantasy goes, I'll still give Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time the nod as my favorite. Song of Ice and Fire is a close second, a very well written, and detailed universe.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Yes . . .

SPOILERS

The birth of the dragons is truly one of the most epic moments in fantasy literature. Awesome scene. Can't wait to see HBO's adaptation of it.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Hey, there is now a release date for the next book, A Dance with Dragons. July 17th.

I'm re-reading A Game of Thrones (it's still excellent) right now in preparation for the HBO (which looks awesome) and want to read the other three before I move onto ADwD. Hopefully the paperback will be out by the time I get finished with the rest of the series (as I plan to read plenty in between).

[Mariamosis]

I am about 3/4 of the way through the 3rd book. Unfortunately he killed off some of my favorite characters and I am having trouble picking it back up after a few months of neglect. .... and anyway I really don't see a point if he never finishes it. (Mutatis-Mutandi, how many times have we heard the news of a new release date)

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

he killed off some of my favorite characters

He has a habit of doing that.

(Mutatis-Mutandi, how many times have we heard the news of a new release date)

I actually don't know. Ignorance is bliss.

[imoody16]

I saw that you wanted to address it, so I will put it simply. I find parts of the text reprehensible, Drkshadow thinks differently, we'll have to agree to disagree, or some other such. In truth, I don't have a text in front of me, so I cannot use quotes, so it becomes a game of mere speculation, and memory digging.

Like Drkshadow said, it is a perspective novel, a technique vaguely borrowed from, I would think, Faulkner, with a different narrator on each chapter, though with the absence of the interior monologue in favor of a highly focalised third person rendition.

The one, perhaps most disgusting scene I remember reading, before putting down the book, was one about some fellow named Greyjoy (the son of some rebel island guy) misoginystically taking advantage of a barely teenage peasant girl on some boat trip, before abandoning her, and ridiculing her.

The attitude without consequence that such a scene produces I find horrifying. Textually, the scene was not plot relevant, and only an indulgence into the setting, which is despicable. There was no need for the scene thematically. No need for the scene for plot development, or any other such reasons. And in truth, after that, the narrative tried to show the character as sympathetic, rather than condemning him, which I found utterly disgusting.

So I stumbled across this forum specifically looking for discussions of SoIaF, and I felt compelled to register so that I could respond (years after the fact, probably only to make myself feel better) to the accusations of JBI.

JBI. Your complaint, behind general accusations of "misogyny and rape fantasy fueling", seems to be that certain scenes in the books made you uncomfortable, by portraying topic that you (and no doubt the rest of the good people on this forum) would condemn, in a non-condemning fashion.

You were disgusted by the actions of some of Martin's characters. Why is that a bad thing? The cast of SoIaF is (with the exception of the lamentably headless Eddard Stark, IMO) to a man/woman seriously flawed in one way or another.

As some others have mentioned, there are scenes in the book that provoked strong emotions - Dany and the dragons rising from the fire was mentioned, as well as the Red Wedding. Among his characters, there are no heroes, only perspectives - some good, some bad, all presented for the reader's interpretation (well said, whoever said that first). How can a world where such evils, corruptions and banalities exist be adequately described, if not through scenes that provoke appropriate emotional responses to their content?

I would propose that the feelings of disgust that you felt reading certain scenes were intentional. Martin's a decent author, and tells a good story. The point of reading the hundreds of pages he writes is not to find out how the kingdom is saved at the end, it's to experience the journey, just as you're supposed to feel a surge of triumph when the dragons are born, or hear a mental wail of dismay when Eddard is beheaded (seriously, my favorite character, and you kill him in the first book? you're cold Martin, cold), you're supposed to fee disgust, or repulsion or whatever other negative, unpleasant emotion when terrible things are happening.

It's one thing to feel disgusted by a disgusting scene. Some people do disgusting things, and writing about them does not imply approval. It's part of building a richer experience.

It's another to put the book down and hide from the unpleasant feelings provoked by scene. He's not asking you to approve of the horrible things done, he's asking you to appreciate the wide spectrum of emotions required to describe a real world.

If you need your literature to come with moralistic footnotes agreeing with your disapproval of the actions of a character, Martin's probably a little complex for you.

[igrim]

Hello :)

I, too, found this thread and the forums while looking for discussions on the given series of books by Martin.

I agree with a lot of the points made by imoody16 and Drkshadow03 and some others.

A valid point that has been neglected in this (years old) discussion here is that G.R.R.Martin intended the story to be a trilogy - it just "grew" out of it, Martin has admitted to that personally; and it seems to go well with the opinions in this discussion that he'd hit a grandiose writer's block.

Therefore I find most of the things that JBI said close to moot as when you read the other books in the series (if I remember correctly then at the time when he wrote his critique he had read only around two books) the whole picture starts to come together. I find it strange how JBI took one instance of minor-oldster intercourse as a general theme of the books.
Yes - he is very graphic about sex, but he is very graphic about violence too. Truth be told he is very graphic about the whole story - the books read easy because of that, they have this movie-like quality to them, pulp, as someone called it. It is epic fantasy, but in no way is it high literature.

I personally discovered TSOIAF with the HBO series, but as it ran once a week and I had a lot of free time on my hands I picked up the first book before I finished the second episode and finished the third book a day after the last episode of the television series - it is now a fact already that they're going to do a sequel to that - probably the next book. Now I just started the fourth book and am waiting for the fifth to come out next month.

Why are people upset with him for taking a five-year break from writing this series ? I gather he's been busy writing other things during those years and as an author has every right to continue writing a story whenever he's ready. Goethe wrote his Faust over the period of half a century, mind I'm just comparing the times to write something not the literary value of said works of writing compared.

I liked how Ian Banks said that he likes to take a break from his Culture books, because he doesn't think that as a writer he's somehow obligated to cater to the fanboys, who might read his books in a few days and then demand the next one. A writer is an artist, if an artist starts rushing things for profit or popularity the work of art undoubtedly suffers from it.

Anyway, now that I've read some discussions on the series I'll return to reading A Feast For Crows and I'll get back to you :)

[Astazha]

Just wanted to pop in and say thanks to Drk for making this thread worth reading.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I think JBI is most responsible for making this thread worth reading.

And, if you guys want to really get into ASOIAF discussion, check out the official ASOIAF forums. You can just Google them.