Classical Listening

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

It helps that it's performed by Pinnock and "The English Concert" - trail blazing HIPsters second to none. Type Pinnock into Amazon and check out his fabulous DG box bargains. I have the Vivaldi box and it is truly wonderful. I also have the Mozart symphony box - also fantastic:

Cool, I'll check 'em out.

[stlukesguild]

This Haydn box set is particularly fine:



All to often Haydn's reputation as a symphonist rests solely upon his final 12, the so-called London Symphonies. Now and then his Paris Symphonies also make an appearance. But Haydn composed some 104+ symphonies and this set offers stellar performances of a great many of the strongest of these... especially those from his middle years during the height of the early German Romantic movement known as Sturm und Dreng. In these symphonies one senses Haydn's nearness not merely to Mozart but also to Beethoven.

[mal4mac]

All to often Haydn's reputation as a symphonist rests solely upon his final 12, the so-called London Symphonies. Now and then his Paris Symphonies also make an appearance. But Haydn composed some 104+ symphonies and [Pinnock's] set offers stellar performances of a great many of the strongest of these...

Thanks for the vote of confidence on this set, St Luke. I think I'll have to get it. Have you listened to the Mozart box? As with Haydn, Mozart tends only to get praise for a handful of symphonies. Of course, some were composed when he was very young. But he got good very quickly (around 14?). Pinnock and his band were amazed on first encounter with the early works, they just couldn't believe they were so good. I heard several early symphonies on BBC Radio 3's Mozart 'every note' festival in the New Year and just had to get the box, a highlight amongst endless highlights...

[stlukesguild]

I've never been overly impressed by any Mozart symphony prior to no. 25. Admittedly, they are quite brilliant considering his age, but I'm only really interested in what might be considered brilliant regardless of the age. I don't really think that Mozart started to take the symphony... nor the string quartet for that matter... seriously until his acquaintance and friendship with Haydn. Mozarts' piano concertos, on the other hand, show maturity quite early on. This probably owes to the fact that these were written as a means of highlighting his own virtuoso abilities. I have the Archiv box set of Mozart's piano concertos with John Eliot Gardiner and the English Baroque Soloists performing on period instruments. This is a marvelous set as well:



Currently, the top rated cycle of Mozart's piano concertos is that of Murray Perahia... and I quite love everything I have by Perahia (Bach, Schubert, Beethoven, Schumann, Mendelssohn, etc...)...



Unfortunately, the set is on SONY and remains quite pricey.

I have several highly regarded collections of various Mozart symphonies, including:







I'm currently looking at this highly rated box set on Telarc by Sir Charles Mackerras:



From all I've read, his set comes closest to being a definitive recording.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Ever since you posted that Bartok link in the Wagner thread, StLukes, I've been really digging his stuff and other stuff like it (I put his name in Pandora). I love that dissonant, what-many-find-unappealing sound.

[mal4mac]

I've never been overly impressed by any Mozart symphony prior to no. 25. Admittedly, they are quite brilliant considering his age, but I'm only really interested in what might be considered brilliant regardless of the age.

The case for the opposition, no. 17:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KI1lkt1v80

Admittedly, very simple. But (to my ears) perfect - like a buttercup.

This is, admittedly, the first one that 'overly impressed' me in Pinnock's set, but I greatly enjoyed at least half of the others up to that point, and the rest were 'interesting' (given that I *really* like Mozart...)

I agree with you about the Piano Concertos - I listened to Murry Perahia's set immediately after the symphonies and was totally bowled over by them. It's probably the first thing I would grab if a tornado was heading my way. Maybe I'll have to get the Bilson/Gardiner set as well. Do you find yourself listening to both sets frequently?

In my notes I have 11 symphonies marked down as outstanding, and 20 piano concertos (!)

The "Third Ear" guide reserves the highest praise for Pinnock in the early symphonies (1-25), while calling Mackerras "...dull..." - he gets some praise for some later symphonies

I think Pinnock's performances of the later symphonies compare well to others that I have ... which include Marriner & Bohm ... so the Pinnock set is a good 'one covers all' purchase, I feel.

[stlukesguild]

The "Third Ear" guide reserves the highest praise for Pinnock in the early symphonies (1-25), while calling Mackerras "...dull..." - he gets some praise for some later symphonies...

I've never come across this critical tome. I'll suggest that it is possible... considering the date of publication... that the author was not overly fond of the more HIP approach to music... but again, I don't know. I tend to look at several critics... and avoid those whose taste frequently differs from my own. I had one guide that was well written... quite comically entertaining at times... but the writer wasn't fond of Bach!!!, he dislike Herbert von Karajan (who he repeatedly called a Nazi), and suggested that Messiaen was the only composer who ever made him physically ill. Needless to say... I couldn't take his word at face value too often.

Here is Mackerras in the finale from the 41st:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prvBE...eature=related

Quite muscular... you can certainly hear where Beethoven is going to come out of this music.

Here's Pinnock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHSGE...eature=related

His interpretation strikes me as more elegant... gallant... It sounds quite a bit closer to the classic Sir Neville Marriner recordings which I already have... and love... thanks to the fact that it was through them in the film Amadeus that I truly came to love Mozart.

And here's Bohm... a master of the "old school" (Romantic) approach:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRUlzJn8UeU

Hogwood's set has been highly praised among aficionados of the HIP approach to Mozart... but his complete set is quite expensive:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rETZaTRFHe8

And then there's Minkowski's Mozart on a motorcycle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYSWYhhsyy4

I have my eye on his complete set of Haydn's London Symphonies.

When I pick up a second interpretation of a work it's generally because the interpretation has not only garnered a good deal of critical praise, but also because it is sufficiently different from what I already have. I would avoid the Pinnock set for that reason... as it doesn't seem sufficiently removed from Marriner's interpretation. I would jump on a complete Minkowski set... but alas, none exists as of yet.

[mal4mac]

The "Third Ear" guide reserves the highest praise for Pinnock in the early symphonies (1-25), while calling Mackerras "...dull..." - he gets some praise for some later symphonies...

I've never come across this critical tome. I'll suggest that it is possible... considering the date of publication... that the author was not overly fond of the more HIP approach to music... but again, I don't know. I tend to look at several critics... and avoid those whose taste frequently differs from my own.

The articles in "Third Ear" are written by a plethora of named & described authors, most of whom seem to be well qualified to appear in such a guide. Some have me gasping in disbelief, but most I've found very informative and detailed.

Recent example: I was looking for a collection of Faure's piano music and spotted Collard's collection at an extreme bargain price on Brilliant classics - Collard isn't even mentioned in the most recent editions of Penguin and Gramophone, but "Third Eye" provided a reasonably detailed review - that led to a happy purchase.

[Musicology]

JS Bach
Cantata 105

"Herr, gehe nicht ins Gericht mit deinem Knecht" BWV 105

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lviab...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Asyul...eature=related

[stlukesguild]

Any posts acknowledging the genius of Mozart make Robert nervous, and he must immediately counter them with something by J.S. Bach. Nothing to fear, Robert, much as I love Mozart, Bach still remains unrivaled in my opinion. I just picked up this marvelous disc... part of the entire cycle of Bach's cantatas performed by the Bach Collegium Japan and Masaaki Suzuki:



Incredibly, I picked up the disc through an Amazon dealer for just $2 US! An absolute steal. I'm quite liking the cantata BWV 155... especially the lovely duet, Du musst glauben:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoMsrOyfFMo

The performance here is by the equally marvelous Ton Koopman and the Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra.

[mal4mac]

This jumped out of the radio onto my "must buy" list recently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA1L0SsEXxU

Bach - Concerto for 4 Harpsichords in A Minor BWV 1065

Another Pinnock box Interesting comparison, Koopman:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfJzPOlpEfU

So, Pinnock or Koopman or ...?

[Musicology]

Hi there St Lukesguild,

You may be aware of a problem of musical attribution that is common for virtually all 'great' composers of the 18th century. So says everyone who examines music of that century. A massive and yet almost unknown example being the music of the alleged musical 'genius' W.A. Mozart. Who was no more a genius than you or I. So say those who have actually examined the evidence. But why let the views of those who have examined this question in detail get in the way of a hugely popular and never criticised fairy story ? Each must be free to believe what he/she likes (with or without them examining the evidence). Ask them to name, for example, some composers active in Mozart's Vienna and say whether they have actually heard their music. It's funny. Try the same for Beethoven's time.

Case Closed.

Anyway, music matters.

Antonio Vivaldi -
Aria - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX83B...eature=related

JC Bach
Aria from 'Carattaco'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If95os01u6U

p.s. The Bach was sublime. Thanks for that.

Any posts acknowledging the genius of Mozart make Robert nervous, and he must immediately counter them with something by J.S. Bach. Nothing to fear, Robert, much as I love Mozart, Bach still remains unrivaled in my opinion. I just picked up this marvelous disc... part of the entire cycle of Bach's cantatas performed by the Bach Collegium Japan and Masaaki Suzuki:



Incredibly, I picked up the disc through an Amazon dealer for just $2 US! An absolute steal. I'm quite liking the cantata BWV 155... especially the lovely duet, Du musst glauben:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoMsrOyfFMo

The performance here is by the equally marvelous Ton Koopman and the Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra.

Hi mal4mac,

The Pinnock recordings are recognised to be amongst the finest ever made. (Made in the last years of vinyl records. With some of the best sound engineers of that time). Played on a valve amplifier with a high quality stylus and good speakers this is totally amazing stuff.

I once saw Trevor Pinnock and the English Baroque rehearsing this work at Westminster Abbey. Long time ago. Unforgettable experience. The place was overflowing in minutes with tourists and others on lunch to listen.

BWV 1063/3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WrKy...eature=related

'Bach is another planet' (A. Daudet)

This jumped out of the radio onto my "must buy" list recently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA1L0SsEXxU

Bach - Concerto for 4 Harpsichords in A Minor BWV 1065

Another Pinnock box Interesting comparison, Koopman:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfJzPOlpEfU

So, Pinnock or Koopman or ...?

[Emil Miller]

I have posted this elsewhere on Litnet, but because I agree with the comment below, I am posting it again. I challenge anybody to post something comparable.
The infuriating thing is that the Berlin Philharmonic are unable to issue a DVD of it for contractural reasons.

This has to be one of the greatest 3 minutes in the entire symphonic literature....And what trombones! What horns! What trumpets! What an orchestra......


http://youtu.be/xK7z2NhUrsQ

[TacoButt]

I have posted this elsewhere on Litnet, but because I agree with the comment below, I am posting it again. I challenge anybody to post something comparable.
The infuriating thing is that the Berlin Philharmonic are unable to issue a DVD of it for contractural reasons.

This has to be one of the greatest 3 minutes in the entire symphonic literature....And what trombones! What horns! What trumpets! What an orchestra......


http://youtu.be/xK7z2NhUrsQ

Wow, that was something incredible! Have you ever listened to the digital concerts online?

Love those rotary valve trumpets. We do not see those very often in USA.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I just got a "best of" Stravinsky 2 CD set, and man, he was pretty trippy. I didn't realize how out there he was, but I like it. I was wondering, was anyone else doing what he was doing when he was doing it? From what I've heard, no.