Is Our Culture Ready for the Trashcan?

[The Atheist]

What kind of logic is that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic

Alot of people are guided by 'if it walks like a duck....' Some of these scams are very good.

I'm not so sure that they're as good as they appear on the surface - I've busted dozens of them They all have a common theme of appealing to greed, but even the well-designed ones almost always direct to an obviously incorrect url. They're slowly getting there - I received a tax refund one the other day that directed to something like: http/ird.govt.nz.scammingbastards.com

No doubt a few people never read further than the ird.govt.nz.

I agree about the internet scams etc. I was thinking - rather narrowly about the cons that people do on you face to face, where other factors can affect events like distraction, or false confidence.

I think you can carry the same ideas into real-life situations though. My kids are bombarded daily with rumours, urban myth and downright baloney from their friends at school. Despite their age - 11 & 8 - they seem to be able to spot the stupid pretty easily.

[billl]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic



I'm not so sure that they're as good as they appear on the surface - I've busted dozens of them They all have a common theme of appealing to greed, but even the well-designed ones almost always direct to an obviously incorrect url. They're slowly getting there - I received a tax refund one the other day that directed to something like: http/ird.govt.nz.scammingbastards.com

No doubt a few people never read further than the ird.govt.nz.



I think you can carry the same ideas into real-life situations though. My kids are bombarded daily with rumours, urban myth and downright baloney from their friends at school. Despite their age - 11 & 8 - they seem to be able to spot the stupid pretty easily.

How do you do a class on spotting a con?

By teaching simple logic - if A -> B, then C.

What kind of logic is that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic

I'm pretty sure you must've been in a rush (or something...), but my best guess is that you meant to represent the modus ponens argument in symbolic form.

That would be,

A -> B
A_____
B.

Your hasty example actually mixes English (if... then...) and symbolic logic ( -> ), and reads (when fully tranlsated into English):

IF (if A then B) then C.

This translated statement could possibly represent a useful assertion, but it does not stand on its own as an example of logical deduction.

It might represent a con of some sort, of course. More likely a way to rule out a con, perhaps... How about:
A = using the product
B = life gets better
C = buy the product

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

I'm pretty sure you must've been in a rush (or something...), but my best guess is that you meant to represent the modus ponens argument in symbolic form.

That would be,

A -> B
A_____
B.

Your hasty example actually mixes English (if... then...) and symbolic logic ( -> ), and reads (when fully tranlsated into English):

IF (if A then B) then C.

This translated statement could possibly represent a useful assertion, but it does not stand on its own as an example of logical deduction.

It might represent a con of some sort, of course. More likely a way to rule out a con, perhaps... How about:
A = using the product
B = life gets better
C = buy the product

Someone just got logic pwned.

[The Atheist]

I'm pretty sure you must've been in a rush (or something...),

Just lazy.

[billl]

Similar reason, sort of--anyhow it was of course a valid point being made.

Regarding the education of kids against *online* scams, I remember seeing a website about how to avoid phishing and dangerous urls, etc., and really I think there's a lot of adults (esp. the elderly, like Paul mentioned) that need that sort of education, as well.

Also, I remembered that when I was in high school (the eightis) there was a class called Civics, in which we learned about our government, the stock market, drug abuse, probably checkbooks, and even spent an hour on deceptive advertising and retail shopping scams. I remember "bait-and-switch" was one of the scams, but that's it.

[Alexander III]

Instead, actually, I just think that it's another backwards decision from the Etonians.

Neely I have come to respect your opinion on the forums, but I cant let a comment like that go. Why is it that that comment of yours is accepted and unchallenged, yet if I were to say

"education is being ruined because it is no longer designed for the elite, but instead it panders to the working class masses; thereby lowering it's intellectual and cultural teachings"

This comment would be heavily opposed and people would find it offensive. (not that I particularly agree with the comment I made, merely using it as a hypothetical example of an opinion of mine)

The stereotype that the upper classes are unscrupulous and only care for the augmentation of their wealth is as true as the stereotype that all lower class individuals are thick-headed simpletons.

So I see no reason to pander to stereotypes.

( I have a close friend who studied at eton, so I found your remark to be insulting to me and him)

[LitNetIsGreat]

Well firstly sorry for any offence caused, that was never my attention and it would not sit well with me if I have done that, so apologies there if that is the case.

I have absolutely nothing against the well-off or privileged. Neither do I want to issue forth stereotypes of any kind. My comment was aimed at one particular prominent Etonian and his side-kick Robin (who didn't go to Eton) who I don’t particularly admire, shall we say? It’s not that I even dislike him (them) as people, (though I don’t particularly like them either) but rather it is the effect of their actions that bothers, and at times, angers me – if I let it. It was this in this aspect that my comment was made.

Maybe saying "Etonian" was not helpful though, I suppose. Though hopefully not as vindictive as saying something like "we do not want people from places like Sheffield affording holidays abroad" as one muliti-millionaire advisor uttered this week. I can't say I was impressed with that one.

[Paulclem]

Though hopefully not as vindictive as saying something like "we do not want people from places like Sheffield affording holidays abroad" as one muliti-millionaire advisor uttered this week. I can't say I was impressed with that one.

Who said that? AlthoughI too don't like stereotypes, I have heard things like that from some priviledged people.

[LitNetIsGreat]

I can't remember his name. A classmate was telling me about it the other day. I know he's some sort of government advisor though, if I find out I'll get back to you.

[Paulclem]

I can't remember his name. A classmate was telling me about it the other day. I know he's some sort of government advisor though, if I find out I'll get back to you.

Thanks.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Here we are Paul, Oliver Letwin.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/most-po...5875-23033993/

Of course, the irony here is that this "person" went to Eton!

[Emil Miller]

Here we are Paul, Oliver Letwin.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/most-po...5875-23033993/

Of course, the irony here is that this "person" went to Eton!

Hilarious to see two old Etonians scrapping over another airport for London. Despite his silly remark about Sheffield, Letwin does have a point though because if we go on building runways, we will end up looking like Airstrip One as Orwell (another old Etonian) suggested.

[Alexander III]

Well firstly sorry for any offence caused, that was never my attention and it would not sit well with me if I have done that, so apologies there if that is the case.

I have absolutely nothing against the well-off or privileged. Neither do I want to issue forth stereotypes of any kind. My comment was aimed at one particular prominent Etonian and his side-kick Robin (who didn't go to Eton) who I don’t particularly admire, shall we say? It’s not that I even dislike him (them) as people, (though I don’t particularly like them either) but rather it is the effect of their actions that bothers, and at times, angers me – if I let it. It was this in this aspect that my comment was made.

Maybe saying "Etonian" was not helpful though, I suppose. Though hopefully not as vindictive as saying something like "we do not want people from places like Sheffield affording holidays abroad" as one muliti-millionaire advisor uttered this week. I can't say I was impressed with that one.

Ahh ok I see you comment was addressed at a particular individual there is nothing wrong with that, just the way i read it it seemed a generalization against all etonians.

Wow I can't believe someone actually said "we do not want people from places like Sheffield affording holidays abroad" actually I can believe someone said that, but I can believe that they had the idiocy to get caught saying that.

[Paulclem]

Here we are Paul, Oliver Letwin.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/most-po...5875-23033993/

Of course, the irony here is that this "person" went to Eton!

Although I, like Alex III have met really nice people from all levels of society - I think it just gives a snifter of the attitudes of a certain echelon. You take the odd instances of comments over the years and you realise - as I have experienced - that whereas racist and sexual slurs are now frowned upon by most, class prejudice is still there in the attitudes in some of the most priviledged in society. And this bloke has got a big influence in running the country. Annoying and frustrating.

[Emil Miller]

It might be wiser to restrain one's comments on 'toffs' given that a number of public figures either went to Eton or were members of the Bullingdon club.
They look like the kind of people who would cut up rough and it would be most undignified to have members of Litnet debagged. That blond guy in the front row looks decidedly dangerous.




Andrew Gimson, biographer of Boris Johnson, reported about the club in the 1980s: "I don't think an evening would have ended without a restaurant being trashed and being paid for in full, very often in cash. A night in the cells would be regarded as being par for a Buller man and so would debagging anyone who really attracted the irritation of the Buller men."