Mozart auf Deutsch.
Es ist höchste Zeit, dass dieser Faden geschlossen wurde !
Mozart auf Deutsch.
Es ist höchste Zeit, dass dieser Faden geschlossen wurde !
"L'art de la statistique est de tirer des conclusions erronèes a partir de chiffres exacts." Napoléon Bonaparte.
"Je crois que beaucoup de gens sont dans cet état d’esprit: au fond, ils ne sentent pas concernés par l’Histoire. Mais pourtant, de temps à autre, l’Histoire pose sa main sur eux." Michel Houellebecq.
Hi there Peter,
(Mozart was not born in Germany. Nor was he born in Austria. But in the principality of Salzburg. We speak English. You already knew that didn't you ?
It is always pleasant to advertise that W.A. Mozart (1756-1791), several times in his career, in fact, claimed to be an arch-Englishman. Or, if you prefer, “ich bin ein ErzEngelländer.”
But all of this justifies the thread remaining (as it must) in the English language. And not in German, nor Italian or any other language. And, (for those who may doubt it) here is a well researched article on Mozart confirming the above -
Peter Branscombe: ''Mozart the Arch-Englishman''
http://www.aproposmozart.com/Bransco...0corrected.pdf
Besides, we would not wish to upset rules already well learned by myself and yourself, would we ? Thus English remains. As does daylight. And goodwill to all honest men etc. (Which counts more than anything else. Believe it or not). Change channels if you must.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sFej5pnVXI
RN
Last edited by Musicology; 02-26-2011 at 06:48 PM.
Noch ein weiterer Versuch zu verewigen dieser lächerlichen Unsinn.
Ich verstehe nicht, warum die Steuerung dieser Faden ermöglicht
solche Dummheit, um fortzufahren.
"L'art de la statistique est de tirer des conclusions erronèes a partir de chiffres exacts." Napoléon Bonaparte.
"Je crois que beaucoup de gens sont dans cet état d’esprit: au fond, ils ne sentent pas concernés par l’Histoire. Mais pourtant, de temps à autre, l’Histoire pose sa main sur eux." Michel Houellebecq.
Mozart was just a small part of the story, was created by the "others" you are so desperate to avoid, and was then, post 1823, inflated beyond all reason and proportion to conceal "them", just as you still do, stuck to the "first stage" -his 'diapers'-eversince you joined this forum.
"Hawkins, Cowper* and Burney", the first 'british musicologists', inventors of the famous Bach/Handel soup, would be proud and thankfull of your efforts to keep their secret recipee intact.
Want return to Mozart and their shadow, C.Burney, 1770?
Ta-ta!
*Whom the Mozarts never met, 1770: "Mylord Cowper had contracted catarrh during the journey and had to be excused".
But they did meet 'lo scompigliato Burney', (who earlier visited Voltaire and composer 'Gaspard Fritz' in Ferney, Geneva. Wednesday Morning 4th July. The weather is fine and I am in love with this place) later on in Venice (their intention to visit there confirmed by Leopold's letter, Bologna 4 August to his wife and Burney's own notes on Venice, August 5th and 10th) who then writes on the Mozarts , August 30, 1770, “There is no musical excellence I do not expect from the extraordinary quickness and talents, under the guidance of so able a musician and intelligent a man as his father.” In the meantime of course. August 8th and 9th, he felt the need to create 'abate Cirillo Martini'.
As such:
Further to my previous 'tentative 1770 aliases list' please include Leopold's 'Signor Bortolo Tiboni', as well as 'Vittorio Cigna-Santi', 'Quirono Gasparini' and 'Ferdinando Bertoni' (the latter, Martini's pupil and at the time-1770- choirmaster at the Ospedale dei Mendicanti, was allegedly in London 1778–1783, where he composed operas for the King's Theatre. Burney did not meet him however
Originally Posted by Musicology
Last edited by yanni; 02-27-2011 at 06:52 AM.
Peter,
Please do not post here in German language. This thread is in English. It is a thread on the real life and grossly fabricated achievements of the iconic 'genius' composer W.A. Mozart (1756-1791). From researchers who have spent many years examining the actual evidence. The fruits of modern study.
A rare expose of fiction, exaggeration and invention, in fact. If you have evidence to counter what has already been posted you are free to produce it. So can anyone else. That's a good deal. Although there are numerous other articles to come on the same subject. Including one on the legendary story of Mozart writing down from memory the first hearing of a mass by Allegri at the Sistine Chapel in Rome. And on the famous story of the award he received of the Order of the Golden Spur. In 1770. And still another on his famous public concert in Mantua. Leading to the events of 1771.
A gentle introduction to the real world of Mozart, in fact. In 626 volumes.
Always remember -
'Everything you have heard is true'
(And that's official)
J.S. Bach
Concerto
BWV 1062/3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmS-i...eature=related
Yanni,
This thread will examine the life and career of W.A. Mozart in the light of the actual evidence before it offers explanation of how it was achieved. This is the correct way to examine anything.
Anton Dvorak
Trio Op.65/1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y76fs...eature=related
The correct way to examine 'product Mozart' is to find who and why manufactured him (and others like him).
Put Cocchi/Burney's writings on the web and then we'll see!
Last edited by yanni; 02-27-2011 at 06:54 AM.
There is no point discussing the manufacture of Mozart unless/until evidence has first been clearly presented 'his' music and 'his' legendary talents were invented and grossly falsified in the first place. This is a story which has almost never been told and which, as we see, tends to drift off in to diversionary subjects that are never resolved. Let us see if those who teach and believe the fairy story can answer from the evidence of what is being presented.
So this is a story in 2 parts.
1. Evidence that Mozart's career was falsified from the start.
Followed by -
2. A description of how and why that was achieved.
Last edited by Musicology; 02-27-2011 at 08:54 AM.
Well, if you are set to avoid 'sensitive' subjects, they'll never be resolved!
'Burney' -son of a 'McBurney'* no less-was the same man as 'Rousseau' and 'Pierre Michel Hennin' (leaving his other aliases be for the moment). Burney's 1770 itinerary shows this and documents furthermore he was still 'fabriicating' stories and aliases at the time.
-Rousseau's and Burney's common musical publications (and later 'exchange of relevant correspondence allowed to be made public'),
-Rousseau's choice to 'die', without a trace, in Paris, 1778 and have London executors for his will (where he kept his-Burney's-50000 volumes music library) and
-the fabrication of a convenient 'Charles Rousseau Burney (1747–1819)', father of Frances, portrayed by Thomas Gainsborough http://www.metmuseum.org/works_of_ar...&OID=110000872
provide, if needed, further evidence that 'the problem' never was merely Mozart's manufacture.
Carry on portefaix, you are on your own from now on!
*http://www.dcs.kcl.ac.uk/staff/mcburney/:'For a period, Charles Burney and his family lived in Isaac Newton'sformer house at 35 St Martin's Street
Ta ta!
Last edited by yanni; 02-28-2011 at 07:58 AM.
Yanni can make a thread on any 'delicate subject' he chooses. (He chooses not to). This thread is on the life and career of W.A. Mozart (1756-1791).
How could I possibly miss this opera buffa* of yours?
*Compliments to Brian Bean!
Yanni,
Thanks for your amusing comments on opera buffa. We must all see the funny side of Mozart, for sure !
You and Brian will agree this is not opera seria but opera buffa. And here we all agree. Here, for you and Brian especially, is a simple guide to the background to the premiere of 'Mozart's' first major opera 'Idomeneo' (1781). Staged in Munich. Which is generally known as an opera seria. But whose story we will see was no such thing.
THE REHEARSALS FOR MOZART’S OPERA ‘IDOMENEO’
A vast correspondence exists from/to W.A. Mozart on preparations he made in Munich for the premiere of ‘his’ opera ‘Idomeneo’. And we, always keen to avoid ''flogging a dead horse'' with Mozart criticism, will not refer to his convenient use of earlier music in it by G.F. Handel, J.M.Kraus or any other composer. (Since doing so may offend the punters).
The first rehearsals of Mozart's ‘Idomeneo’ began in Munich, Bavaria on 1st December 1780 with the 24 year old Mozart in attendance, its commissioned composer, he having just arrived breathless from Salzburg (to the amazement of all concerned) with virtually nothing composed of its music at the time despite many months having passed since he was commissioned to do so. (Which, as we all know, merely gave the genius another chance to demonstrate his amazing talents. Which he proceeded to do. As we will see).
The first rehearsal of that opera was scheduled for orchestra only. Which is, you may agree, unusual. Whose individual instrumental parts were soon found to be highly problematic, however. So great were these problems in the instrumentation that it was 16 days later before there was a second rehearsal. Of the orchestral parts - to most of the opera. And then a third, on 23rd December. By which time our resident genius, W.A. Mozart, suddenly under great pressure to get the opera ready for performance after months of having done nothing and who had originally been scheduled to return to Salzburg on 16th December, began to realise he was out of his depth. So he starts to blame the librettist and anyone else associated with it. But the third rehearsal was at least attended by several friendly patrons, the Elector of Bavaria and by Max Franz, younger brother of the Emperor Joseph 2nd. Though Mozart’s return to Salzburg (where he was employed) was still not possible due to these continuing and huge problems in the staging of his opera. Weeks more were to pass in what was to become a marathon preparation for its premiere. With the said Mozart literally turning an opera seria into a farce in 3 Acts. (Or, as you may prefer to call it, an 'opera buffa'). When, finally, on 8th January 1781, guests from Mozart's home town of Salzburg, keen to provide moral support for the genius, started to arrive in numbers (including a helpful and most friendly composer named Josef Fiala, who, by one of those wonderful coincidences was later to take up residence for several years in the Mozart household itself in Salzburg (complete with his wife), but on whom there is no reason to go here in to the details.). Fiala (after some small help with the problems) taking his place in the audience for its eventual production. Though, in fact, Act 3 was still not ready. So 5 days later, on 13th January 1781 rehearsals were finally made of Act 3 of this extraordinary opera. And on 18th January 1780 more rehearsals for Mozart’s opera ‘Idomeneo’ continued on that day - but only of its recitatives ! And on 20th January other guests, hearing of the unfolding fiasco and keen to make their contribution, were persuaded to arrive in Munich in numbers from Salzburg themselves, all eager to belong to the adoring audience at its eventual production. These joined, six days later, on 26th January 1781by the arrival of none other than Leopold Mozart and his wife. On the 27th finally came the dress rehearsal of the whole opera. (This nearly 2 months after rehearsals had first started). With the date of the premiere had already been rescheduled twice and running many weeks late. Tempers were getting frayed. The opera finally premiered on 29th January 1781 and was repeated on 3rd February and 3rd March. (Mozart by these dates already due in Vienna had left the city). Planned further performances of 'Idomeneo' for 5th, 12th, 19th and 26th February were abandoned, with no records of any payment being made to its composer. Which is itself a remarkable fact.
A single, scathing report of the music performed at the premiere of ''Idomeneo'' survives in a Munich newspaper of the time. Whose editor dismisses it as being largely composed of recitatives and having been poorly received by its audience - except for Mozart's usual admirers. Who included, of course, ’rent a crowd’ from Salzburg. Plus, of course, the usual patrons.
And so it came about that opera seria became comic opera. Thanks to the single handed genius of W.A. Mozart. As Yanni and Brian have suggested.
Last edited by Musicology; 02-28-2011 at 04:14 PM.
You are jumping to premature conclusions: The possibility that Leopold and/or Wolfgang-later as Nissen-are covering up the traces of 'Josef Fiala' aka 'Myslivecek' (see 'both' meeting and inspiring junior Mozart in October 1777) and possibly 'Rosetti' has to be taken into account instead of trusting ridiculous "source" references such as:
Josepf Fiala: In 1777 he moved to Munich to serve in the court orchestra of Elector Maximilian Joseph. That year in Munich, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart was greatly impressed by the wind band trained by Fiala, and helped Fiala secure a position in 1778 after the death of the Elector. In 1785 Fiala moved to Vienna, and in 1786 to Saint Petersburg where he worked in the court of Catherine the Great
I'll prepare a relevant 1777-8 timeline in an attempt to clear things up.
In the meantime either find out Burney's 1777-1781 detailed whereabouts or learn something on chess or minerals (Comte Alexandre Collini or Colini was director of the Natural History Cabinet of Mannheim, where he wrote 'Solution du problème du cavalier au jeu des échecs' and several more amongst which a book on Agates,1776/77)
Last edited by yanni; 03-01-2011 at 03:41 AM.
The focus on 'Idomeneo' and Munich was a temporary reward to Yanni and Brian. Since Yanni specifically mentioned 'opera buffa' and 'opera seria'.
We return now to Mozart, still on his legendary first tour of Italy in 1770, since there are a number of other articles to come on events of that year.
(We hope Yanni does not fail to see the wood for the trees).
Last edited by Musicology; 03-01-2011 at 12:42 PM.
Your "wood" is "Burney-ing" and you- can but-focus on Mozart's 'bush'.
I suggest you should contact Wikipedia and edit their Charles Burney article claiming that Frances was Charles Burney's daughter (bypassing her alleged 'father', ie your fictitious 'Charles Rousseau Burney'):
Quote:
His eldest son, James Burney, was a distinguished officer in the royal navy, who died a rear-admiral in 1821; his second son was the Rev. Charles Burney; and his second daughter was Frances or Fanny,
While you do that, DO PROVIDE them (and us here) also with Burney's detailed 1770 to 1815 whereabouts and, AFTER you do all that, THEN extinguish the fire from your pants, Pyr-as*!
Last edited by yanni; 03-02-2011 at 11:30 AM.
I hope to post here in the next 24 hours a very remarkable article by L. Bianchini on the famous episode of young W.A. Mozart copying down from memory in Rome the 'Miserere' of Gregorio Allegri (1582-1650) during his first visit there in 1770. An incident so famous, so much part of musical folklore and even enshrined within Mozart 'biography' that its details deserve to be examined here.
Jan Dismas Zelenka (1679-1745)
Confitebor tibi Domine in C-minor
ZWV.71
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWbSc...eature=related
Last edited by Musicology; 03-02-2011 at 01:30 PM.
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