Why do so many people think that looking at the beauty of a woman is lustful? Why cant you just look at what God has given you, and the rest of the world?
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Why do so many people think that looking at the beauty of a woman is lustful? Why cant you just look at what God has given you, and the rest of the world?
b/c God said "Be in this world but not of it" WE are human so the idea of lustfullness and beauty is something that we all struggle with. I have trouble wearing clothes that don't cling to my body...that is the style but it's not morally right. Beauty can also be personality, ideas, POV, etc. Beauty doesn't necessarily have to be looks and a face. I'm beautiful in the eyes of God b/c i'm His child. I don't have a bf so does that mean i'm ugly?
Like i said this is something that humans struggle with...you may want to ask Shea for exact Bible refrences...she always has her Bible open when she comes to this forum. :D
8)
I don't believe that God intended us to avert our eyes to the natural beauty of a woman's form that He created for us. I think that what is meant by the verses about lust is what the spirits eye sees, not the physical one. I think it's the thoughts and feelings that we attach to what we observe that are in question here; in other words, if you can't look at the beauty of a woman, or anything else for that matter, without becoming aroused and lustful, then you have a problem. I believe it is perfectly alright to appreciate God's work of creation in every form. I don't know how clear I'm making myself here, so if you have any thoughts or questions about what I've posted here, please let me know.
You posed a difficult topic to reference Ickmeister, but I must agree with Tigerlily. Biblically speaking, lust is most definately a sin, but appreciating beauty of all forms is perfectly all right.
Of course, as Chardata explained, I have references! :D The biggest one would be Song of Soloman. It's a short OT book, and to me a beautiful love poem. There are many refrences to beauty in the OT; many are innocent, and others lead to lust to teach as an example why it is so wrong. A good example of this is the story of David and Bathsheba. David is said to be handsome in 1 Samuel 16:12,18, and Bathsheba is said to be beautiful in 2 Samuel 11:2. There is nothing wrong with the observance of this beauty, but the sinful act they commited (which you can read about in 2 Samuel 11 and 12) was most definately wrong.
wow you read my mind, Shea! I was just about to come back on and suggest that! :P Everything that has been said is correct and i agree with. 8)
Thank you
I know action stopped on this discussion in May, but I was reading over your questions about masculinity and beauty. You're probably not even thinking about this stuff any more, but I just wanted to add from a male's point of view concerning lust. The big thing to remember is that guy's are hot-wired much differently than girls, and, unfortunately, many of us lack the strength to just stop at admiring a woman's beauty--our thoughts usually lead elsewhere. Sometimes it's our fault, and a woman's bare arm will get us going. Sometimes a girl walks out wearing something so tight and low-cut that there's nothing left to the imagination. Since self-control is a fruit of the Spirit, much of the responsibility falls on guys to pray for strength to acknowledge and move on. But I encourage you as my sister in Christ to remember your brothers, and remember that there is a big difference in dressing attractively and dressing to attract. My girlfriend makes a conscious effort not to wear super short shorts or shirts that show her midrif, because she knows that her waist is incredibly sexy to me. She does this because she loves me and wants to keep me pure--to her, that's more important than being in style or sexy, and that's very sexy. Two of our chief responsibilities in our relationships are to grow in closeness through Christ (not rushed intimacy due to raging hormones from a shirt to deep or shorts to high) and to guard each other's hearts (not our status as defined by culture--you must be sexy, etc.). To look upon a woman's beauty and praise God for creating something so awesome is worship--to delight in God and his works. But to look upon the beauty of a woman and make it an idol--the thing you constantly think about, search for and chase after because you think it will bring you happiness--is sin. As men we must save our passion and desire for marriage, and as women, you guys must help us out by not awakening desire before it is ready. Men are created to initiate and lead, women are created to encourage, help and nourish. Sure, some feminist is having chest pains now, but it's scripture. And both roles are awesome and indespensable. Nothing makes a man want to be a man more than a woman.
:D I have to commend you for this wastin- what an intelligent and noble stance to take! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by wastinaway
Some scriptures that go alond with this quote and the rest of the post.Quote:
But I encourage you as my sister in Christ to remember your brothers, and remember that there is a big difference in dressing attractively and dressing to attract.
1 Timothy 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
Romans 14:21 [It is] good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Some scriptures that go alond with this quote and the rest of the post.Quote:
But I encourage you as my sister in Christ to remember your brothers, and remember that there is a big difference in dressing attractively and dressing to attract.
1 Timothy 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
Romans 14:21 [It is] good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Like Tigerlily, I also commend you for your attitude on this topic, Wastin. In fact, just yesterday, one of our preachers preached on the subject of sexual immorality. The meat of the message came from Proverbs chapter 5. It was pretty direct even to some of the nameless young ladies of our own congregation.
I understand that this subject can be very difficult for male's. But also it can be difficult in other ways for females, especially in the last few decades of our society. Very, very rarely will I go out shopping for new clothes. To me, it becomes so frustrating to the point that I usually wind up making my own and being thankful that I know how to sew. There are slim pickin's for the modest girl.
One sad thing that I saw just today, a mother came into the coffee shop where I was having lunch, with her two young daughters. One was wearing a pauncho because of the wet weather, but the youngest one who couldn't have been more than five was wearing a very high bare midriff (sp?) and I recalled a news report I saw once where a group of girls her age were in some sort of Brittney Spears dance class. One of the girls was interveiwed saying that she liked the clothes because the shirts were short and showed a lot of skin!!! Five years old!!!
Its things like that which really make me wish I were born 200 years ago. :-?
200 years ago?!
What was so great about the 19th century? The Industrial Revolution had already begun and people were generally miserable. Maybe 20,000 years ago would be a better figure.
First of all, Biblically speaking, it is impossible for the earth to be 20,000 years old. Second, your going to have miserable people in any century. I was referring to a desire for the higher standard of morality and modesty in general at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by AbdoRinbo
The Bible! The Bible!
And the message that your trying to get across is...?
I just want us all to get along famously.
it's so cute how y'all quote bible references! ) i agree with tigerlily- u can look at a girl and go 'hey, she's pretty' but not to that sick point that many guys take it too.
also shea has a point-i've started buying tops 2 sizes bigger than i used to just because they design them to be really clingy - it's like any top with elastane is 'sized down' just so it's clingy. i really detest that.
but honestly what is it sometimes with guys? hardwired differently or just constantly thinking about sex? is it true they think about it once every 5mins? shouldn't they learn to stop doing that?
I think the reason that "gazing" at a "hot" woman is considered, bad to put it simply is because sociaty has changed since two thousand years ago and the definition of what is apropriat has drastically changed. Women wear less close and men are somewhat brainwashed to instictivly be atracted to revealing cloathes. I can not claim that I do not look, I am merely pointing out a fact.
I think about sex every 5 seconds. :D
I'm in my prime years, it can't be helped.
I think it is more of a personal submition to popular belief to do so Mr. Rinbo. It is not the driving force in my life, personally it is against my religiouse beliefs to have sex out of wedlock. Sex is for procreation, not for pleasure.
And religion isn't popular belief? Moreover, I never said I act on it, it's just there.
No offence intended abdo.
Just pointing out my beliefs, however I do blame popular society for such priorities. I actually prefeer a long lasting relationship and then perhaps marriage. People should be mentally conected befor sexually.
You're the Man, Stan. :D
You should read Songs of Solomon. Although procreation is the main reason for sex, the bible does NOT say that is the only reason people should have sex.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanislaw
Jonus
Edit for Grammar
I believe it comes down to morals and how one interperats the Bible.
I need my topical Bible to help with this one, but I'm at school right now and don't have it. I'll try to get things going tomorrow.
But on the topic of revealing clothes... I saw a sign yesterday, some kind of voting ad, and the picture was of a woman walking in a mall, and one of the stores had a sign out front that said, "Parental guidance required for all clothing purchases."
I don't think it would have been considered appropriate in Jesus' time, either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanislaw
Two things. First, I am male, second, Shea you are cool!
And that is relevant because...? -?
LOL! :D ;)
Be nice, fayefaye.
LOL very appropriate! And I don't thing this has to do with religion etc, it should be common sense! Girls nowadays are scary, at 14 they dress and wear make up like they were 25...that's why I look like I'm 12 instead...Quote:
Originally Posted by Shea
At the beginning of last summer I was disappointed about the heat also because I had to wear summer clothes and reveal arms and even sometimes legs... now that's because I'm paranoid but I really wonder how can people go aorund half-naked...
Oops sorry getting off-topic...
This is an honest question, I'm not trying to be insulting. Do you really think that it is wrong to go around with your arms and\or legs bare?
It is wrong(sinfull) to be immodest. You can be immodest wearing a ankle length skirt if it is to tight around the.......hips :) Or pants that are to tight also. I don't think it is immodest to show your leg or arms however, I do think it's immodest to show anything above the thigh. As far as the arms go they are not sexually desirable in our society so no its not wrong to show them(IMO) but, with some tank tops women wear you can see their bra, which I think is immodest.
Exodus 28:42 And thou shalt make them linen breeches to cover their nakedness; from the loins even unto the thighs they shall reach:
Jonus
No it isn't! You misunderstood me. Just I prefer to HIDE everything I can :evil:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ickmeister
Oh, I'm sorry. Your just real modest. Again, not an insult.
What is there to cover up, anyway? The Body is nothing more than an over-heated factory, an oven to bake the disgusting waste we eat and **** it out again, as waste. It is a machine composed of smaller machines. In it, there is no distinction between the machines that we plug into our walls or use to drop bombs.
Ok... but i never mean to be mean, ever. I didn't think I was.. well, whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by AbdoRinbo
It depends on HOW they show they're body at least as much as WHAT they show. That's why nude ppl can still count as artwork- it's ok if it's not sexually provocative. Hence most ppl are ok with nude beaches in parts of europe. It's just open and out there. Surely you can see the difference between that and dressing skanky?
But I can totally see Koa's point. I'm a jeans and t-shirt girl, in that that's literally my whole wardrobe. Jeans and t-shirts in lotsa different colours. roll I don't suppose anyone's seen the cartoon 'rocko's modern life'? and he opens up his wardrobe and they're all the same clothes, in multiples? mine's JUST like that. Koa made a really good point about summer clothes. I can never find clothes in summer at all. It's incredibly frustrating. i didn't even realise it was because they were all naasssty until i was talking to my friend about my shopping inability (on a slightly related topic, I HATE SHOPPING, for pretty much anything) and she said, 'it's because only skanks wear them' I spose on the one hand, a lot of ppl have poor dress sense, and on the other hand it's all the shops provide. Do you have any idea what australian summers are like? standing around in jeans in 37'C heat, and having ppl come up to u and say, 'aren't you hot ?' every five seconds. I can see why some otherwise modest girls would wear somewhat wrong clothes. I just don't feel comfortable doing it at all.
Actually, I formed a little conspiracy theory on this (i love conspiracy theories evil ). ok, the advertisers make girls insecure about their appearance and weight by putting out their ads, right? that's very well established now within our society. nothing new. then, they start making clothes more clingly and tight- girls will still buy them because they don't want the psychological impact of thinking they've gotten fatter. then, they start bringing in more revealing clothes. apart from the few who actually like them, the vast female population will still buy them because what else would they wear? meanwhile, the whole time the manufacturers are trying to tell us that they're giving us what we want by dictating 'fashion'. why? well, did you ever hear about the airline that saved tens of thousands of dollars by eliminating one olive from every meal in first class? By cutting down on material, they're literally saving tens of millions of dollars. Maybe hundreds. Sounds like a nice holiday bonus for some CEO, don't you think?
ooh, I think your right. And, do you know the conversion equation for farenhiet (I think I misspelled that) because that's what I go by.
urr.. from memory? i think it's like multiply by 1.8 and add 32. from a memory that always forgets.
Fayefaye, for the 3rd time today I feel you're my lost sister. I hate shopping most of the time (though I used to hate it more), I wore only jeans for the whole of my teenage years (now I do vary a bit but my mum wonders everytime why do I buy always similar things...grr)...But since I hate summer so much, I do try to wear something lighter lately (our summer mustn't be too different from yours, and I don't know fahrenheit ;))
Sorry about hijacking the topic :(:(:(