Some Attributes of God

May peace be on you.

God is One, has no associate and except He there is no one else is worthy of worship, according to Holy Quran [chapter 59, verses 24 and 25]

It is said so because if He were not without associate then there is possibility that He might be overcome by a rival. In such case, Godhead would always be in threat…………….No one is worthy of worship but Him: It means that He is such a Perfect God Whose attributes are so great that if we were to select a god based on perfection, or we were to think the best attributes which God should possess, then the most perfect is that God, with Whom making a lesser God will be incorrect.



The Knower of the unseen, The Knower of seen

He alone knows perfectly about His-Being.…..Nothing is hidden from His knowledge but it is not possible for human…….Only He knows when He will end the universe and bring the Day of Judgment.


He is Gracious

He makes available the provisions of sustenance before the existence of life and any action from animates. This is due to His Grace only. He made the sun and the earth etc before our being and our deeds. By virtue of this, God is called Al-Rahman in Holy Quran.


[u]He is One Who rewards deeds[/u]

God rewards more than good effort. He does not waste effort of person and by virtue of this action is called He is called Al-Raheem.


God is The Master

God is the Master of the Day of Judgment, He recompenses. He has appointed no representative for this at any time. He is Malik-e-Yomiddin.



He is The Sovereign, The Holy One

God is the Sovereign with no defect. Human sovereignty is with weakness; people living under an earthly sovereign may leave the country for any reason or they may stand against the ruler, etc. God’s sovereignty is not as this. He can end and start things. He rules with right and justice. God is Al Malekul Quddus.




God is Source of Peace

God is free of all defects and troubles; He provide safety. If He had suffered problems and failures, He could not have given have given satisfaction to hearts that He would surely liberate us from difficulties. God is As-Salam.


The Bestower of Peace

He grants proofs of his excellence and Unity and believers which give them peace and confidence and they are never down as compared to those who believe in artificial gods. God is Al Mo’min.



God Guards everyone, and Mighty over all, and Repair break-downs, and is very Self-Sufficient /
almohaimenul azizul jabbarul motakabbir


He is such God that He creates bodies, He creates souls too, He draws features (of baby) in womb. All conceivable holy attributes are His names / ho wallahul khalequl bareyul mosawwero lahul asmaul husnaa



yosabbeho lahu maa fissamawatey wal-arzey wa howal azizul hakeem / The dwellers of heavens glorify His name with purity and of earth too.

It shows that there are those who live in heavenly bodies and they follow guidance of God.



God is All Powerful to do what he wishes / alaa kulley sheyin qadeer. [chapter 2, verse 21]


Believers and worshipers are happy to know that their God is fully Capable and Powerful.


Reference: Friday sermon by Ahmadiyya Khalifah (a.t.) of Promised Messiah Mahdi (a.s.)

There is a line of thought in religion, (mainly I believe in branches of the Jesuits) that hold that it is not so much what God commands, as to what God tolerates. Graham Greene, whom I'm sure you have read extensively, was a great proponent of this line of thinking, which is of the same relevance to the followers of Mohammad,(peace and blessings be upon him) as it is to alternate deities.

Just curious, if you're speaking of the Holy Quran (or Koran as I know it), why do you not refer to God as Allah??

Because of the many concepts of God that different religions hold dear.

You missed the biggest one: He's imaginary

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Originally Posted by MorpheusSandman

You missed the biggest one: He's imaginary

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Now, now, let's play nicely.

Agreed. Let's get back to my original point that, (cateris parabus, one believes in a God) then he recognises human frailty in the mortal being and tolerates as well as commands.

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Originally Posted by Hwo Thumb

Now, now, let's play nicely.

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Tongue was firmly in cheek.

I guessed it was, but at least it got a bit of discussion going, instead of reading a realm of text.

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Originally Posted by MANICHAEAN

Agreed. Let's get back to my original point that, (cateris parabus, one believes in a God) then he recognises human frailty in the mortal being and tolerates as well as commands.

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I hadn't really thought of God "tolerating" us as being one of his attributes, but that makes sense. It allows us to have some free will.

Recently, I've been separating Gods into those which are "personal" and those which are not. The personal Gods one can relate to and they relate back. In this class would go Allah, Yahweh, Jesus, Krishna and so on. The impersonal Gods are those we get hung up on. They couldn't care less about us if there is much anything to them at all.

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Originally Posted by YesNo

The impersonal Gods are those we get hung up on. They couldn't care less about us if there is much anything to them at all.

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Well, I think more people get hung up on the problem of evil, which the impersonal Gods nicely skirt round.

Some interesting concepts there:
1. "Some free will." God acknowledging perhaps that we are mortal with mortal weaknesses and thus a certain amount of latitude is permissible. But then it can be argued that the Son of Man ( although theologically without sin) had human failings e.g. temper, impatience, doubt.
2. Personal gods. Yes I agree with this. The whole concept of referring to the Father in Christianity cannot be anything but personal.
3. Impersonal gods. I presume you are referring to categories inclusive of the Greek Gods, gods of nature and inanimate objects.

The impersonal gods are more like money, fame and other things one serves as well as metaphysical beliefs such as many worlds, determinism or chance that ground the metaphysics. These are impersonal. There is no point in worshiping them. They can't respond.

The Greek Gods or other nature Gods would be personal. They may not be friendly, but they would be agents one could worship. Perhaps, "conscious" would be a better term than "personal" if one wants to generalize the idea.

The impersonal Gods don't really avoid the issue of evil. They just are too unconscious to care one way or the other. One can replace theodicy with cosmodicy or anthropodicy.

ok let's see so much adoration it is almost procrastinating.
what has god ever done to you?

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Originally Posted by cacian

what has god ever done to you?

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That is the main question that theists need to answer mainly for themselves. That is, theists who believe in a conscious, personal God that anyone can relate to need to ask themselves if their religious practices are beneficial.

The most I can offer as an answer is that these Gods respond through our awareness. The specific religious practices (mantras, mediation, religious gathers, prayers, etc) would have to benefit the believers or they are not worth doing. Personally, I have found the ones I have tried (mantras and meditation) beneficial and so I have no reason to stop doing them.

Now, let's assume that the person doesn't believe in a conscious, personal God. Then one will have one of these other ethical Gods (fame, wealth, power) or one of the metaphysical Gods (many worlds, determinism, chance) to ground one's actions and views of the world. They provide support mainly for a position that one takes. What have these Gods done for anyone? Nothing, except perhaps distract one to follow fantasies, which is a sort of negative benefit.

Just to make sure I am staying on the topic of this thread, we are discussing the attributes of God. The two attributes that I find most interesting are that the God is "conscious" and "personal". This puts the God out there with an ability to relate to me.

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Originally Posted by YesNo

That is the main question that theists need to answer mainly for themselves. That is, theists who believe in a conscious, personal God that anyone can relate to need to ask themselves if their religious practices are beneficial.

The most I can offer as an answer is that these Gods respond through our awareness. The specific religious practices (mantras, mediation, religious gathers, prayers, etc) would have to benefit the believers or they are not worth doing. Personally, I have found the ones I have tried (mantras and meditation) beneficial and so I have no reason to stop doing them.

Now, let's assume that the person doesn't believe in a conscious, personal God. Then one will have one of these other ethical Gods (fame, wealth, power) or one of the metaphysical Gods (many worlds, determinism, chance) to ground one's actions and views of the world. They provide support mainly for a position that one takes. What have these Gods done for anyone? Nothing, except perhaps distract one to follow fantasies, which is a sort of negative benefit.

Just to make sure I am staying on the topic of this thread, we are discussing the attributes of God. The two attributes that I find most interesting are that the God is "conscious" and "personal". This puts the God out there with an ability to relate to me.

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interesting I am not sure I can do either mantras or meditation. they are not something I look for myself because they are not suited to me.
my question was this
why does one need to feel close to a god that has no real face. it is impossible to determine the physical attributes and therefore what we may be imagining may not be true.
what are the reasons that drive someone to want to be in close touch with god?
using consciousness kind of makes weary because the mind can sway and whether it can come back one day to a state of normality is something one ought to think about.
I feel these meditations can take one so far that the mind could eventually learn to shut down.
the mind is an active place that needs active light and sound and so to teach it evade away from reality repetitively many not be a good thing long term.
the reason I say that is because we are programmed to be awake during daylight and asleep at nigh time. the mind in this instance is rested and so any extra rest ie evasion of the mind may disturb the natural pattern of our physiological structure and therefore the side effect of such prolonged repeptitive activity may delay the brain to react when needed.

Well argued.

Personally, I like a bit of flesh on my chicken. Thus whether from choice or childhood acceptance, have been brought up Christian, complete with it's historical development, mantras, formality etc. Beyond that, based on inner sensitivity is the next dimension of spirituality; which is totally personal and sustains / encourages what you term the "ethical" gods.

Note. Cacian jumped me on this one, and I was responding to the YesNo entry.

I don't know enough about the various religions that are available today to put much flesh on the chicken. The benefits coming from mantras and meditation could be explained as acquiring habits such as slowing down and paying attention to what one is doing. These are like a dance. Are we dancing alone?

Is there additional benefit gained in believing we are not dancing alone? If so those would be the benefits coming from theism.

If I'm honest enough, I don't need mantra's, prayers, ceremonies to get that outside feedback; though it sometimes helps. With me it's location; once in London on Ash Wednesday, once in a deserted church annex in Mexico City and once in the Jesuit Church in Rome. But then, I have been lucky in each instance to have experienced an almost overwhelming presence.

As someone who sees most logic in the Ancient astronauts theory, I think that the, socalled, gods were astronauts from the universe. Why this theory belongs to the conspiracy kind of theories, I don't know. I don't see anything conspirative in it.

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Originally Posted by free

As someone who sees most logic in the Ancient astronauts theory, I think that the, socalled, gods were astronauts from the universe. Why this theory belongs to the conspiracy kind of theories, I don't know. I don't see anything conspirative in it.

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god an an astronaut?
but I thought man was an astronaut? both could do not the same thing.
conspiracy theories are there to applaud the myths that god is more then one thing.
the channel for documentaries with god paraphernalia. past cultures and their building legacies of pyramids and artefacts are now down to gods to pass on a knowledge apparently.
what knowledge I am not sure of yet.
there is the knowledge for a black cabbie however. :D

Dear Yalash
Apologies. I've realised that basically I've highjacked your thread and it has progressed tangentially into unchartered deep waters e.g. Conspiracy theory outer space deities. Please feel free to jump back in and give us your perspectives on a more sober level.
Regards
M.

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Originally Posted by MANICHAEAN

If I'm honest enough, I don't need mantra's, prayers, ceremonies to get that outside feedback; though it sometimes helps. With me it's location; once in London on Ash Wednesday, once in a deserted church annex in Mexico City and once in the Jesuit Church in Rome. But then, I have been lucky in each instance to have experienced an almost overwhelming presence.

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The outside feedback comes to me when I wake up in the morning and understand what I didn't know before. Those kind of experiences have got me interested in dreams. I tend to link the mantra recitation and the "meditation", which in my case is little more than habitually reminding myself to pay attention while I walk, eat or breathe, with such insights. It is only recently that I have intentionally associated them with some deity thinking this would personalize the relationship more.

Unless I project myself onto some collective unconscious or subconscious, I don't think such insights come from me unlike those unconscious decisions to breathe or physically move my fingers to type these characters. That leads me to questioning to what extent I am an "individual". If I can get that far outside of myself, I figure why not assume there is further that I can go or assume there exist personal consciousnesses that act as agents providing feedback.

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Originally Posted by MANICHAEAN

Dear Yalash
Apologies. I've realised that basically I've highjacked your thread and it has progressed tangentially into unchartered deep waters e.g. Conspiracy theory outer space deities. Please feel free to jump back in and give us your perspectives on a more sober level.
Regards
M.

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such is the effect of god on people. :D

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Originally Posted by cacian

god an an astronaut?
but I thought man was an astronaut? both could do not the same thing.

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Nobody knows whether god or gods exist or not. Right? What people were made to believe in as a god or gods, were astronauts from the universe whom they met in the very distant times, ancient times. As the famous Latin proverb says: 'Nothing reaches the intellect before making its appearance in the senses'.

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Originally Posted by Hwo Thumb

Now, now, let's play nicely.

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All Morpheus said was, "He's [God] imaginary". How's that not playing nicely? The religious state is often one of paranoia.

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Originally Posted by Whosis

Just curious, if you're speaking of the Holy Quran (or Koran as I know it), why do you not refer to God as Allah??

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Peace be on all friends.
I used word God as general translation; may have used Allah or both in English. Good obsrvtn though!

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Originally Posted by cacian

ok let's see so much adoration it is almost procrastinating.
what has god ever done to you?

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God has placed things, rules, warnings and glad tidings, wisdom, mercies and ask to use all for love of God and peaceful life which changes its form after death. If we misuse things plus, we are hurt or we hurt others. God saves from results of faults and bless. God ask to spread His blessings to weak ones too. One may imagine love of mother for children.

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Originally Posted by YesNo

That is the main question that theists need to answer mainly for themselves. That is, theists who believe in a conscious, personal God that anyone can relate to need to ask themselves if their religious practices are beneficial.

The most I can offer as an answer is that these Gods respond through our awareness. The specific religious practices (mantras, mediation, religious gathers, prayers, etc) would have to benefit the believers or they are not worth doing. Personally, I have found the ones I have tried (mantras and meditation) beneficial and so I have no reason to stop doing them.

Now, let's assume that the person doesn't believe in a conscious, personal God. Then one will have one of these other ethical Gods (fame, wealth, power) or one of the metaphysical Gods (many worlds, determinism, chance) to ground one's actions and views of the world. They provide support mainly for a position that one takes. What have these Gods done for anyone? Nothing, except perhaps distract one to follow fantasies, which is a sort of negative benefit.

Just to make sure I am staying on the topic of this thread, we are discussing the attributes of God. The two attributes that I find most interesting are that the God is "conscious" and "personal". This puts the God out there with an ability to relate to me.

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God really relates to creatures at various levels. Everything is 'spining' (in broader sense) around God.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cacian

interesting I am not sure I can do either mantras or meditation. they are not something I look for myself because they are not suited to me.
my question was this
why does one need to feel close to a god that has no real face. it is impossible to determine the physical attributes and therefore what we may be imagining may not be true.
what are the reasons that drive someone to want to be in close touch with god?
using consciousness kind of makes weary because the mind can sway and whether it can come back one day to a state of normality is something one ought to think about.
I feel these meditations can take one so far that the mind could eventually learn to shut down.
the mind is an active place that needs active light and sound and so to teach it evade away from reality repetitively many not be a good thing long term.
the reason I say that is because we are programmed to be awake during daylight and asleep at nigh time. the mind in this instance is rested and so any extra rest ie evasion of the mind may disturb the natural pattern of our physiological structure and therefore the side effect of such prolonged repeptitive activity may delay the brain to react when needed.

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Inborn urges to find and meet God are in everything; some feel, other try to negate this passion but it come back at any turn, any cross road, any low or at height, sleeping or awaking. It keep coming back. Love from and to God is softwared.

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Originally Posted by MANICHAEAN

If I'm honest enough, I don't need mantra's, prayers, ceremonies to get that outside feedback; though it sometimes helps. With me it's location; once in London on Ash Wednesday, once in a deserted church annex in Mexico City and once in the Jesuit Church in Rome. But then, I have been lucky in each instance to have experienced an almost overwhelming presence.

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Inbuilt software!.....though hardware (prayers, places to worship, ceremonies are needed to) , In Islam remembrance is God is full time love.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MANICHAEAN

Dear Yalash
Apologies. I've realised that basically I've highjacked your thread and it has progressed tangentially into unchartered deep waters e.g. Conspiracy theory outer space deities. Please feel free to jump back in and give us your perspectives on a more sober level.
Regards
M.

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You are welcome. You all are speaking as you think.

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Originally Posted by free

Nobody knows whether god or gods exist or not. Right? What people were made to believe in as a god or gods, were astronauts from the universe whom they met in the very distant times, ancient times. As the famous Latin proverb says: 'Nothing reaches the intellect before making its appearance in the senses'.

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Originally Posted by mal4mac

All Morpheus said was, "He's [God] imaginary". How's that not playing nicely? The religious state is often one of paranoia.

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Religious state is real. Its is state to get from God and give to creation. All reality. Even religion tells about yet-to-come states (reward accordingly times) which imaginations fail to grasp.


Peace be on everyone and regards.

can I ask you YALASH.
you are a fervent Allah's' believer/worshiper but do you believe in the other religions?
or do you feel your god is better the one and only ?
what happens to the other gods do you think they exist too?

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Originally Posted by YALASH

God really relates to creatures at various levels. Everything is 'spining' (in broader sense) around God.

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I hadn't thought of it as spinning around God before, but the idea makes sense. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by cacian

can I ask you YALASH.
you are a fervent Allah's' believer/worshiper but do you believe in the other religions? or do you feel your god is better the one and only ?

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Peace be on you. I humbly believe that God revealed religion (His attributes and commandments) since the very first human (which was made after long creation+guided evolution);

= along the way various religions existed,

= then they corrupted (since raw capacities need hard work to go up morally, people slowly sank to low, they spiritually gravitated)

= then new Prophet (the most capable pious person of his time, able to get revelation) was sent to reform them.

That is why I believe the currently established religions were once true religions of their times and they were from One God and taught Unity; now most are not in original nascent state because of deviations and taking metaphors literally; attributes of One God are considered as small gods etc or associations are made with One God.....

If one did not get the light of final message (Holy Quran) with a true reason and practice their religion's original teachings, they will get salvation. (ch 5 , verse 70 alislam.org/quran)

Perfection of God lies in compulsory uniqueness and best-ness. We are all ctraetures of One God. Holy Quran call it Allah....According to Ahmadiyya Promised Messiah and Mahdi (@alislam.org) Allah in Holy Quran is the Perfect Being Who is Rightful Deity, Possessor of all perfect attributes, Free of all weaknesses, The One with no associate and The Source of all blessings.

So I believe currently established religions were once free of corruption but now they are not free of human interventions. Only Holy Quran is in its original form and it does contain essentials of all previous versions of religions. (No hard feelings)

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Originally Posted by cacian

what happens to the other gods do you think they exist too?

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Other gods do not exist.....If they had, universe would have collapsed. Centre is perfect and one.

Thanks.


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Originally Posted by YesNo

I hadn't thought of it as spinning around God before, but the idea makes sense. Thanks.

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Thanks.

If there is god, it is one. The ways to it, I suppose, are different and these ways should be the matter of choice. It should be taken care not to nourish god's image with characteristics as: possessiveness, jealousy, rage, love for power instead power of love etc.

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Originally Posted by free

If there is god, it is one. The ways to it, I suppose, are different and these ways should be the matter of choice. It should be taken care not to nourish god's image with characteristics as: possessiveness, jealousy, rage, love for power instead power of love etc.

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So don't read the Old Testament then!