A Tale of Two Families

I know two Chinese families; one lives in New York the other in London. Each has a child, a boy of eighteen and a girl of fifteen.
The New York couple’s son is studying medicine with the intention of becoming a doctor: I say his intention when in fact it’s his mother’s because it seems that doctors’ are looked up to as the epitome of social and academic success in China. Being in regular contact by phone with the family, I know that the boy is working himself to a frazzle in pursuit of his mother’s obsession.
A couple of days ago, I had a call from the girl’s mother who said that her daughter was now studying for her GCSE exams but that there was a problem with her daughter adamantly refusing to follow the suggestion that she too might consider medicine as a future profession as she had a loathing of all things medical.
I immediately took the child’s side and said it was quite wrong to try to force her into something that she had no inclination for.
The Chinese tiger mother has become a cliché but, while it’s obvious that most people want their children to succeed academically, surely a child’s working life shouldn’t be foisted on them at the behest of the parents.

Absolutely.

Parents should guide and assist, not direct and order.

We live in an area which is 1/3 Chinese, so my kids go to school with lots of them, and the Chinese Tiger Mother is well and truly alive. As one put it, it's a not question of whether the children will learn a musical instrument, the only question is, "violin or piano?"

Most of the kids attend additional tuition in at least one subject outside of school hours, and usually two or more - typically English & maths.

How is it possible, though, to actually force a child to follow a specific career path? Actually, you can't. You can encourage them, threaten them, punish them, and so on, but you cannot force them. Whether the young woman you speak of decides to become a chemical engineer, a poet, or a model, that decision will never be made by her parents.

The real question is, can trying to force the issue harm the child? I see no reason why it would.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lykren

How is it possible, though, to actually force a child to follow a specific career path? Actually, you can't. You can encourage them, threaten them, punish them, and so on, but you cannot force them. Whether the young woman you speak of decides to become a chemical engineer, a poet, or a model, that decision will never be made by her parents.

The real question is, can trying to force the issue harm the child? I see no reason why it would.

---

Please tell me you're joking...

You really think having your parents constantly pressure you into taking the career path that they want you to have isn't going to be detrimental to a child?

No, I'm not joking.

Can you explain to me why you think it would be harmful?

Psychologically it would destroy you. To be constantly told that what you want is not important and that your dreams and ideas are stupid (unless you dream of being a doctor or a lawyer) by arguably the two most influential and important figures in your life.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Atheist

As one put it, it's a not question of whether the children will learn a musical instrument, the only question is, "violin or piano?"

---

Sometimes it is both violin and piano. Sometimes the kids rebel, sometimes not. Ours didn't mind so much.

Being told to do something is entirely different from being told that your dreams and ideas are stupid; besides, children often make decisions they will regret later. Lazing around instead of working on something that will eventually be satisfying is one such decision; shouldn't a parent do their best to instill habits that will, in the long term, be both useful and gratifying?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lykren

Being told to do something is entirely different from being told that your dreams and ideas are stupid; besides, children often make decisions they will regret later. Lazing around instead of working on something that will eventually be satisfying is one such decision; shouldn't a parent do their best to instill habits that will, in the long term, be both useful and gratifying?

---

What do you have against lazing around (and perhaps reading a few novels while lazing)? I tried manfully to corrupt my son: "What do you want to do tonight, S.?"

"I have to study."

"Oh, come on! Let's go to a movie."

"I can't. I have too much homework."

"Blow off your homework, S! It wouldn't kill you to get a "B" once in a while."

Kids rebel.

.

I wouldn't call reading a novel lazing around unless it were one that had no ability to provoke thought. It seems we are using different definitions of lazing around.

Now this is an interesting conundrum. Do these mothers really have their children's best interests at heart? Are they going about raising well-adjusted young people the right way? What is the right way to do that, anyway?

Upon first reading the first post, my initial reaction was one of repulsion mixed with a slight sense of horror at the first mother. I strongly disagree that he should be forced into studying medicine if it's not something that he initiated. Ugh. The whole thing brings to mind "The Dead Poet's Society." It's just so coercive.

I remember working with a very free-spirited young lady a number of years ago. It was our first year of teaching. She'd worked as a waitress at a sushi restaurant and really preferred working in the restaurant industry, but her father was a teacher and her parents were so happy that she was a teacher, too. I don't know what she ultimately ended up doing, but I remember telling my mother this story and her response was "Well, I'm glad she's listening to her parents." Do I have to tell you that I rarely felt supported by my mother?

But! Then there's this:

http://www.livescience.com/26465-tig...ral-style.html

It's not that either the western or the eastern (even if they live in England and America) way is better-they are two different cultural constructs that have the same end-goal and for the most part, work well for the different families. Asian kids feel a deep connection to their mothers-their mother is part of who they are, according to this article. While western style parenting "focuses more on self-esteem and independence."

It goes on to say:


Both high-intensity tiger moms and low-key Western moms may have the right idea, depending on what their cultures expect from parenting.

"The European parents, they provide their children wings so their child can fly away and be free on their own," Fu said. "The Asian-American parents are more like the wind that is beneath the wings of their child, because they're always there, supporting the child, letting the child fly and reach success.

Nevertheless, I still think that mother is making a huge mistake. Encouraging a kid is one thing; foisting your beliefs on your offspring is quite another thing entirely.

I don't think there's a connection between a more lax parenting style and better self-esteem. It's hard to measure, of course, but I know plenty of people (myself included) who were not raised strictly, who in fact were given great freedom and much love, and yet have enormous emotional difficulties. On the other hand plenty of the people I know who were raised by strict Asian parents are perfectly well-adjusted, and have no problem accepting the fact that their childhood was filled with hard work - after all, it led them to gratifying paths in their future.

Furthermore, Qimi, it is worth noting that foisting one's beliefs on a child is inevitably a part of any parenting process. We share with our children our religions, artistic tastes, and culturally based modes of interpersonal communication. The fact remains that the offspring are beings endowed with free will and the power to reject such influences if they feel the need.

Did you read the article at all? Low-key and lax are not synonymous, Lykren. And of course there are people "who in fact were given great freedom and much love, and yet have enormous emotional difficulties. On the other hand plenty of the people I know who were raised by strict Asian parents are perfectly well-adjusted," because things like friendships, genetics, economics, personalities also play a part.

In fact I was not disputing your point; my own was that differing approaches can work equally well. And of course we always hope to instill our own values in our children. Not quite the same thing as insisting when your child disagrees.

Yes, I read the article.

I meant 'lax' in the sense of 'not doing your utmost to have your child do as well as you think it is possible for them to do'. I did not intend lax to mean 'overly permissive'.

To put this all in perspective, parenting is surely infinitely complex. One parent might wish for certain results, another for different results; different cultures may place varying amounts of emphasis on things such as happiness, wealth, and respectability. Happiness in particular is very difficult to define - probably impossible. I admire those who, faced with such complexity, are able to be proactive and dedicate such energy to raising their children in the high-key manner - for surely it takes at least as much from the parent in such a family as it does from the child.

What experience will serve a child best later in life? We don't know, partly because 'best' is subjective, partly because what the child does not like now may more than make up for the present pain later on down the line, and partly because it is impossible to untangle the knot of nature and nurture. The current Managing Editor of the Harvard Crimson, a friend of mine from high school, was not raised in a high-pressure environment, but simply always excelled and pushed herself to her most distant limits. What explains such determination? I have no idea.

Successes can of course be achieved without a high-pressure parenting style, but I doubt they are ever achieved without some form of intense devotion. Is it not plausible that a certain parenting style can encourage the growth of, the probability of there being, such devotion?

There is a huge difference between forcing your child into a career path and helping them achieve the best of their abilities... I pray to God you never have children Lykren...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lykren

How is it possible, though, to actually force a child to follow a specific career path? Actually, you can't. You can encourage them, threaten them, punish them, and so on, but you cannot force them. Whether the young woman you speak of decides to become a chemical engineer, a poet, or a model, that decision will never be made by her parents.

The real question is, can trying to force the issue harm the child? I see no reason why it would.

---

It's important to make a distinction between the two cases I mentioned. In the case of former, I first met the boy when he was a ten-year-old living in Shanghai; he was a quiet boy and very obedient to his parents. This was something I noticed concerning other children and it's due to the teachings of Confucius that pervade Chinese society. Confucius exhorted his people to follow, among other things, filial piety:

While China has always had a diversity of religious beliefs, filial piety has been common to almost all of them; historian Hugh D.R. Baker calls respect for the family the only element common to almost all Chinese believers.

It's not something the average Chinese person thinks about, it's second nature, so it's easier to get a child to follow his parents' wishes without using force.

In the second case, the girl was born and raised in London and has therefore never been subjected to this subtle persuasion that is part of the Chinese experience: hence, her refusal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volya

There is a huge difference between forcing your child into a career path and helping them achieve the best of their abilities... I pray to God you never have children Lykren...

---

I never equated the two. In fact, I clearly differentiated between them with my example of my friend who did so well without being pushed by her parents. Besides which, by the time a person begins their career, they are making decisions which are their own, as much as any decision can belong to the person who makes it.

Also, how are we to know what a child's limits are but by pushing them to those limits? There are risks of course; but there are terrible risks inherent in being too cautious as well. Whichever path a parent takes, they may unwittingly go astray. It is ultimately a judgment call; one should assess as well as they can the character of a child as they raise them and react accordingly, though such judgments will always be flawed.