In your opinion, whose texts are more difficult to read: Milton or Shakespeare?
And what books/aids do you read alongside Milton/Shakespeare (or any other writer for that matter) to improve comprehension?
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In your opinion, whose texts are more difficult to read: Milton or Shakespeare?
And what books/aids do you read alongside Milton/Shakespeare (or any other writer for that matter) to improve comprehension?
Unfortunately, they are both boring obsolete to me. So I can't tell you.
A Elizabethan dictionary is useful for both, and available for download from Gutenberg. I read Paradise Lost with the help of footnotes available on-line.
IMO, Paradise Lost and even more so, Paradise Regained are walks in the park compared to some of the more difficult unabridged Shakespearean plays.
I think it is Miller... bcz you need more than the text in front of you, you need to read the work and the analysis to get the line of thought of the writer.i
in Shakespeare's works, the problem is the languge but still u can understand the general meaning.
I think it is Miller... bcz you need more than the text in front of you, you need to read the work and the analysis to get the line of thought of the writer.i
in Shakespeare's works, the problem is the languge but still u can understand the general meaning.
Shakespeare is clear as day to me, always has been. Though both are modern writers, Milton often writes his English using Latin rules of grammar, and that has a tendency to throw me. However, neither should pose an unusual challenge for any man with an education. Even Middle English like Chaucer's or Gower's is comprehensible in spite of the antiquated spellings and obsolete diction, but I'd say that Middle English is still a struggle whenever I encounter it.
Milton is much harder than Shakespeare - I think all you need for Shakespeare is a "complete works" edition with a few notes to help you with the difficult vocabulary & more obscure classical and biblical references (although there are relatively few of these in Shakespeare... compared to Milton!)
I like the RSC complete edition, but check out a few in the library to see which keeps you reading. I'd avoid the single texts that have more notes than actual text... Shakespeare doesn't need that much explanation, such volumes are for serious Shakespeare scholars, not someone wanting a good read. (If you get really hooked, and are a scholarly type, then read the "heavy" editions *after* reading a complete, lightly annotated edition.)
I tried taking this approach for Milton using the Oxford World Classics "Paradise Lost", which is as lightly annotated as possible (but there are still lots of notes!) I ground to a halt, but may try again....
The grand style of Milton didn't suit me. I could not get past book II of Paradise Lost. It was not because language was very difficult. My edition had sufficient footnotes for help but I lost interest after book I. Shakespeare is quite readable if you select a good edition with enough footnotes.
You may wish to try his Samson Agonistes,which I found way more gripping. Besides, it's virtually written as a play.Quote:
Originally Posted by aliengirl
They both did write in Modern English. If one has trouble with either, then additional study and experience with the English language is demanded.
I used to think that Chaucer was difficult, but after a few more years of reading various and sundry things in English I found that there are few parts of the Canterbury Tales that are difficult; although it doesn't surprise me to learn that high school students can't understand parts of it.
Living languages change constantly, and it is hard to keep track of the changes. Even in the few years that I have lived many spellings have changed, and some words have been abused to the point of being almost useless.
Wise words.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterL
I find Milton more challenging, you get into a rhythem with Shakespeare more rapidly. Chaucer is more difficult than both of, but you eventually get his keys as well and it all starts to flow. Our brains can get used to anyone's writing it seems, as long as it isn't nonsense.
The first two books of PL are not that exciting, the best bits are in the middle. I find Shakespeare more of a challenge because he comes off deceptively simple as you're reading along, and then you have to stop yourself to go back and re-read parts because they can be so dense in meaning despite their ease of reading.
I agree with JuniperWolff. Chaucer is challenging to read.
Seems I should check PL again. There are books which do not draw one in right from the beginning. I agree about the deceptive simplicity of Shakespeare's works.Quote:
Originally Posted by OrphanPip
Thanks for the recommendation Gladys. Maybe Samson Agonistes will lead me to Milton, the only major English poet I've not read.
I found Chaucer easier than I expected. After reading two books of Canterbury Tales I picked up his style and spelling both. He is fun to read once you get along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cafolini
I don't think that literature can be obsolete. Many of the themes in Greco-roman literature (Aeneid, Illiad), for example, are still pertinent to our era.
+1. Take Milton's Him who disobeys me disobeys. The problem with this sort of syntax is that it's still more ambiguous than necessary, even for those who appreciate both Latin and English syntax. Latin is a highly inflected language and is less dependent on word-order than modern English. In Latin, hominem canis mordet means "the dog bites the man", regardless of the word order. Him and me are either accusative or dative in English, and who is nominative. Milton's statement remains more ambiguous than it needs to be: it can either mean who[ever] disobeys me disobeys him[I] or who[ever] disobeys him disobeys me. Clearly the word order 9according to rules of English (SVO being the common syntax) would clarify what is meant. Unfortunately Milton eschews (I think perversely) this common English syntax at the cost of unnecessary ambiguity. I suppose that Milton intended to achieve greater precision by capitalizing "him" and/or "me," in that such capitalized are meant to refer to God the Father or Jesus Christ...Quote:
Originally Posted by mortalterror
Where I'm familiar with the story, I find Milton easy reading. Fortunately, I am fairly well read in the Bible. Samson Agonistes was easy, but some of Paradise Lost demands too intricate a knowledge of all Biblical references to Satan, as well as early Genesis. My Milton has no footnotes!Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Capozzoli
Agree. I find reading Milton really pleasant. Recently I`ve read "Pride and prejudice" and it was very tedious exprecience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gladys
I loved the poignancy of blighted couple in Persuasion. Years later, I found Pride and Prejudice fairly ordinary until halfway, when it dawned on me that Jane Austen is mildly spoofing her reader from start to finish. Thereafter, I couldn't stop laughing!Quote:
Originally Posted by hannah_arendt
That encouraged me to read Emma, which I detest to this day. :(
Incidentally, I've just finished Henry James's The Bostonians, a story of love and feminism. A great read with an ever so subtle ending.
Milton
I have never really had an issue understanding Shakespeare. Milton was a little harder for me, but I was also quite a bit younger when I first picked up Paradise Lost. I have to go back and read it again and see if I still have the same issues.
I never had any trouble understanding Milton, but there are some Shakespeare plays, namely Hamlet, that I found very hard to read. Hamlet remains the toughest thing I've read to this day other than the texts of philosophers like Kant and Foucault.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy88
Did you read an edition of Hamlet with footnotes?
Also, have you tried "The Pelican Shakespeare?"
What about "Richard III"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy88
I actually have not read that one yet. I found many of his plays to be no more difficult than Paradise Lost. Julius Caesar, Romeo and Juliet, King Lear, Midsummer Night's Dream, Othello, ect. But Hamlet and even Macbeth I found rather difficult.Quote:
Originally Posted by hannah_arendt
Shakespeare is examining your own thoughts and emotions, putting them into words, explaining them and where they come from. So you have a head start with him.
Absolutely true:)Quote:
Originally Posted by prendrelemick
I used to find Shakespeare impossible. But I recently revisited several of his texts and discovered that they weren't as bad as I had originally assumed.
I think the secret is getting an edition with good footnotes, and if possible, reading along while watching the play. Almost all of his plays have been dramatized, which you can probably see on YouTube. There's something about simultaneously seeing, hearing, and reading that make Shakespeare come alive.
There are some quite dull bits of Will which are easy to read but pretty forgettable. Milton is excruciatingly good although you may find a few readings necessary.
I think that Milton is more difficult than Shakespeare. It's not so much the language in Milton's work, it's more the subject matter and the structure he uses. Both are highly enjoyable though. (Shakespeare is my favorite, but Milton is fantastic as well.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuppa' Tea
Cuppa' Tea,
Are you referring to Milton's prose? Do you find Milton's prose to be more difficult than Shakespeare's writings?
I am referring specifically to "Paradise Lost" and "Paradise Regained" the only Milton I'm familiar enough with to make a judgement.
I've only read bits of Paradise Lost, but I find Shakespeare easier to understand. However, I have never had the benefit of a teacher assisting me with any of Milton's works, while I had the opportunity to read my first Shakespeare play in a classroom. The difficult part about reading Shakespeare is not the language itself but recognizing the various puns, double entendres, allusions, etc.; still, the challenging part about those is identifying them rather than comprehending them.
Excuse me. Important news: potential homicide of Marilyn Monroe directed by Boby Kennedy.
Perhaps you might find the lectures of Yale Professor, John Rogers, helpful. See below:Quote:
Originally Posted by Indomitable
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H62G9yIN5Wk
Watching such lectures while reading along almost feels like having a teacher guiding you.
Never had a problem with Shakespeare, but I'm sure I'll find Milton difficult (haven't yet tried) as I find most poetry difficult.
Thank you for the link! He seems quite passionate from what I watched, which is always helpful. I'll be sure to view those over the summer when I start reading it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by astrum
You're most welcome. Professor Rogers also wrote a book about PL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Indomitable
There are tons of other scholarly works about PL. Google Books facilitates access to them.
Let us know if you require anything else and best of luck to you.