Reality seems to drag the idea that it is linked to truth.
I say there is no truth because there is reality. It is either one or the other.
I am real and so whether I am true or not is up to me.
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Reality seems to drag the idea that it is linked to truth.
I say there is no truth because there is reality. It is either one or the other.
I am real and so whether I am true or not is up to me.
Fine proposition, Cacain, and now from poesy you are leaping to philosophy. And this is progress, evolution. This issue called truth is a central issue all of our ancestors down the civilizations are pivoting and yet there is no clue to it. Reality and truth are unseemly nuances, and they are coats, crusts and few could have delved into deeper and profounder realms. If one is blind light is a false idea and if one is deaf sound does not exist. That the one who speaks for the existence of light or against it is a debatable proposition, and before both of polemics lay vast territories of the unknowns. At a tender age you are veering in this unexplored zone.
Who knows the truth or reality about himself and his environment? Truth is a pathless path as J Krishnamurti had said in his famous discourse. Notwithstanding its unknowingness it is really fascinating to discuss it, think about it.
The very inquiry of you pushes you a few inches closer to truth.
Interesting read you posted osho. Truth is overestimated and it is an exaggeration of reality. It is a synonym of the unknow the ether that we never ever get to cross or see. Such is the truth. But if one must insist of getting a piece of it, then one must. The extreme of wanting what is not wanted is costly.
We humans humiliate thentell the truth we go to the end of our wits to hide from it. We bully we bribe and we lie because the truth is an inch harder then a foot wide of lie. It is not something we feel comfortable with. We hide the truth and as a return of favour the truth hides us. Irony? yes indeed.
What does one expect from one's affirmation of a figment of one's imagination? a piece of a cake? doubt it and so we go chasing it and it shall chase us but it will never gives us it.
So I am done with it. I don't believe truth is. I believe I am and this IS reality.
I bow before the princess and the prince.Quote:
Originally Posted by cacian
"All victories breed hate, and that over your superior is foolish or fatal. Superiority is always detested, à fortiori superiority over superiority. Caution can gloss over common advantages; for example, good looks may be cloaked by careless attire. There be some that will grant you precedence in good luck or good temper, but none in good sense, least of all a prince; for good sense is a royal prerogative, any claim to that is a case of lèse majesté. They are princes, and wish to be so in that most princely of qualities. They will allow a man to help them but not to surpass them, and will have any advice tendered them appear like a recollection of something they have forgotten rather than as a guide to something they cannot find. The stars teach us this finesse with happy tact; though they are hischildren and brilliant like him, they never rival the brilliancy of the sun." Balthasar Grazian
I think theres is a truth, but in a personal sort of way. Each person has their own perceptions on what is real and what is true. Like in religions, one person may say Christianity while another says Islam. There both true to that person, but a lie to the other. Its like a person seeing a ghost; its real to that person, but unsee-able to the other.
So them, it's not a truth nor the truth. A truth occurs in the statement of what's indisputably happening and nowhere else.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawk
Not a bad discussion...it seems any agreement about truth through religion or philosophy is trying to set a concrete idea of the absolute goodness. So I ask, is what is true Good? Or is what is good True? Which comes first?Quote:
Originally Posted by cacian
Well it did occur to me whether religion is the new monarchy. You see it is not about monarchy it is about religion and religion does not like monarchs for the only reason that monarch state they are related to god and religion states that god is only related to Jesus and that he is only a monarch to his kingdom in heaven. What religion sits out to do is to take over the monarch so that we do what it says and god can stay out of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaman_Raman
It then a monarch is removed like the case of the french revolution then religion moves on to stake its claim over god here on earth.
Monarchy is the enemy of religion because it reminds religion that god not only rules in the heavens but also on earht through his monarchs.
That is the only truth anything else after that isn't.
It seems to me that the objective truth doesn`t exist.
Everything is relative and truth too is relative. Our vision is limited and we deem our visualization to be true and everything is not visualized and our capacity for knowing truth is dimensional. The sun and the earth are two great truths and we cannot visualize or actualize greater truths than these two entities.
When you see a mountain top and you think this is the highest peak and since there are no adjoining peaks ascending higher than that but the moment you summit it another higher mountain is likely to emerge. But the tallness of the mountain too is relative since there are inner summits we have yet to climb. Attitudinal heights are immeasurable by worldly gauges. There are spiritual altitudes and of course the peak the Buddha had escalated is a nuanced truth. We have no measuring rod or standard to scale that height,
Hi hannah what is an objective truth? do you mean as oppose to subjective?Quote:
Originally Posted by hannah_arendt
This topic is beyond hilarious.
I think that concept of this thread is interesting, but it lacks definition. What is truth? Without a definition there can be no coherent discussion, because everyone will comment about his own concept of "truth".
Before we can find it for you you will have to tell us what you are looking for.
This, exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterL
Truth is simply as right and wrong. Truth as it correct as oppose to not. Truth as what must you do as oppose to what must you follow. Is truth what you think or what you believe?Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterL
A good example of truth is this: Is there truth to existence? and if there is not then why on earth why not?
Clairvoyances are all about ''a truth'' and many believe in them. Is they don't does make them a lie?
If someone tells you to bungee jump and you do it did you do it because you believed in him or is it because you wanted to?
So you are asking whether your opinions exist, n'est pas? If that is it, then yes, your own truth exists, but you already knew that.Quote:
Originally Posted by cacian
I think you are trying too hard to make a word that has a well-known, literal meaning into something abstract.Quote:
Originally Posted by cacian
Yes, I do.Quote:
Originally Posted by cacian
Are you talking about Goodness or Truth? I sense an ambivalence towards the common proposition that if there is Truth, ethics may come into play. But the Good deals with what is beneficial for the community - whereas Truth deals with the validity of informational threads. There can never be Absolute truth for our limited perspectives, that I know of, but there are certainly shards of truth, solid links in the chain of cause and effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by cacian
I mean, you wouldn't say "a^2+b^2=c^2 is the Truth", but nor would you say 'that's not a truth!'
Interesting. I am simply thinking is there truth to anything because if there is then there has got to have a falseness somewhere. Opposites have their words and so are similars. For a truth to be one must have a falseness to start with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan Shaw
Quote:
Originally Posted by cacian
Simply thinking, huh?
Yes there is falsehood, but that doesn't negate truth, just shows a view's inaccuracies on a position. because as its been said, our interpretation aims to be objective but in the end is always subjective.
Indeed Shaman haha. Thinking the kudos to intellectual shenanigan. Why turf when you can surf.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaman_Raman
A planet appears flat but then not so from the outset. The element of observations is all sorts. One can only assume something and then finds out it is something else. So flat was no right/false and the round is was the correct/the right one. There is one truth the evidence but only to precedent that is a presumption and that was incorrectness.
Truth as a result of an assumption that misplaced not thought out.
Let's put it this way which do you think came first truth or falsehood?Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan Shaw
Hard to say, but probably truth: for instance, the laws of physics were there/true before we started to discover them, but Einstein's theories are not free of flaws.
Yes, but what are the laws of physics? If math is used as a language for physics, then there are many many true laws. But if physics is understood as the language of math, then there are no true laws.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan Shaw
Such is the paradoxical nature of truth. It might be better to ask, which came first order or chaos? This may be a stretch, but the laws of physics are patterns ingrained into nature (hence their apparent universality) that regulate space/time.Quote:
Originally Posted by cafolini
Order came first. Chaos is prejudice as to what, when, where and how is the order. This is absolutely obvious. Good luck in eventually realizing these facts.
Yes, there is truth.
Given logic, "No, there is no truth" is impossible. It's self contradictory. It cannot be a true statement, because its truth would contradict its claim.
That is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecurb
In order to get to the truth one experiments and assumes. Trials and error. I am assuming one has to seclude include and then discover. An error is what allows one to decide that something is not right somewhere. If everything we did was correct then there is no right or wrong to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan Shaw
Hence inventions. One notices something is missing and so go on to invent to prevent it.
What is truth, cacain? What we call truth from one vision or perspective can be untrue if we look at it from a bigger vision. When you are at the foothill of a mountain everything is over and above you but when you peak the mountain everything else will be below you and the idea of tallness becomes a lie. Tallness is not absolute nor smallness. It is a relative term. So is your understanding of truth. You may find a person highly appealingly charming but inside her she might be an appallingly ugly. Let us look at things from different lenses. Each time the appearance is likely to vary.
Of course there is truth. Every statement is either true or false in symbolic logic.
But Cacian, Osho, and The Donkey have THE truth.
It is true about different degrees of truths but I think that our judgement is often our truth but also our misconception. The ability or inability to make a judgment appropriate at a time when things could go both ways is down to our sensibilities or lack of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by osho
What I mean is that it is about truth it is about perceptions and how we see things. Truth is irrelevant in this context the only truth there is is that people ecounter other people and experience life. After anything goes no truth just possibilities and endless learning and discoveries.
The list may go a little longer than that since at some point cafolini arrives at the truth of osho, cacain, the donkey, the bull and cafolini all together though somewhat lately since there is total agreement that THE truth has been arrived at.Quote:
Originally Posted by cafolini
[QUOTE=osho;1212538]The list may go a little longer than that since at some point cafolini arrives at the truth of osho, cacain, the donkey, the bull and cafolini all together though somewhat lately since there is total agreement that THE truth has been arrived at.[/QUOTE
I disagree with that truth! - Cafolini you're included because you didn't identify WHO the donkey was, WHAT the donkeys purpose was and which FALSEHOOD was riding the donkey
[QUOTE=Delta40;1212549]Who/what/falsehood sounds like a beginning to a new promising story. I would add why/when/fakehood took over truthhood.Quote:
Originally Posted by osho
weee I would take it easy with the bull though :D Oh something comes to mind and it is the word BULLDOZER . I wonder if it comes derivative of BULL. It is possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by osho
The donkey is a symbol for truth for somebody and that is why it is named and the bull may sound a bigger truth. cafolini must have named it since it is more perceptible in terms of size and shape. Why not cafolin...the bull and the donkey and all the rest go in tandem to unlock or demystify the secret of truth. If the donkey is a truth, the bull is a bigger truth and from that perspective cafolin might have arrived at a higher and more symbolic truth since the donkey and I added the bull become illustrative of the fact of truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by cacian
I am not quite clear of your question, but I am guessing I get it enough to respond. I think that people can have their own truth, which may not line up with anothers. The things we choose to believe in turn impacts what we see, and ultimately how we live our life. We don't all believe the same, but that doesn't mean all those differences aren't real and true for those that do. My truth can be very different than yours, even contradict one another....but there is room in this world for that.
Whenever they contradict each other, either one or the other is incorrect or they are both incorrect. In the latter case there is no contradiction possible since it is nonsense a-priori.Quote:
Originally Posted by kari