Is every poster / member considered equal here on this form?

With due respect I want to raise a question- is every member here considered equal? Maybe some have raised more issues, contributed more points, earned more popularity, secured better space. I never refrain from raising any questions and this question is: when two persons argue – one new and the other established poster and the majority naturally side with the old one and I feel this will be discrimination or kind of unfairness.
We all are humans and as humans we have imperfections and there are issues about which we might be true or closer to truth and there are others which are judgmental. At times I come across people who jump to conclusions and using very strong rhetoric expressions vitiate others’ opinions. For honor’s shake I do not want to name them.
Since I enjoy a higher degree of freedom here on this forum to express any idea cropping up inside me I do not fear I will be censored to speak my thought here.

With due respect I want to raise a question- is every member here considered equal? Maybe some have raised more issues, contributed more points, earned more popularity, secured better space. I never refrain from raising any questions and this question is: when two persons argue – one new and the other established poster and the majority naturally side with the old one and I feel this will be discrimination or kind of unfairness.

We are all aware of your Egalitarian leanings... a noble idea, perhaps... but also one rooted in fantasy. Are all humans created "equal"? In what sense? Under what circumstances? Certainly this has not been my experience. Some people have more experience. Some have more ability in one area or another. Some are simply more intelligent (gasp!). In any social context there will be those whose opinions and contributions are afforded more respect or consideration than others. The teen-aged student who shows up here declaring that "Shakespeare suck!" or requesting that someone do his or her homework for him is not likely to be afforded the same respect as JBI, or Virgil, or MortalTerror, or JCamilo. On the other hand... in other ways all members are (in theory) "equal". We are all afforded the right to convey our opinions as long as they do not come into conflict with the rules of the site... but nothing guarantees that all opinions will be afforded the same degree of consideration.

Being fully honest I will admit that there are certain members whose posts I will read religiously. A good many of these are individuals with whom I do not always see eye to eye... but I always find have something interesting... or provocative... to contribute. Others work I almost never read... unless I stumble upon it on a thread that is of real interest. Do you honestly read every last post here and afford them all the same degree of value? I highly doubt it.

As for arguments between new and established members... there is undoubtedly some truth to your observation. New members are at a distinct disadvantage. But this is true in any context. If you are with a group of old friends and a new person arrived and begins to contradict or challenge one of these friends, you will quite likely close ranks against the outsider. A new member... and every one of us was once a new member... must earn the respect of the group. There have been no shortage of those who join groups such as this and set about gunning for the members they discern as being the most respected. In some ways this is logical. If you can hold your own against JBI and MoratlTerror etc... you will undoubtedly rapidly earn a degree of respect.

At times I come across people who jump to conclusions and using very strong rhetoric expressions vitiate others’ opinions.

Your initial question deals with equality. Are all people coming to this site equal. Clearly they are not. Some, as you seemingly suggest, have a greater ability with rhetoric... with debate... with argument... with words in general. As a teacher, one of the things I struggle to instill in my students is a recognition of the power of words and images to persuade... or manipulate.

Since I enjoy a higher degree of freedom here on this forum to express any idea cropping up inside me I do not fear I will be censored to speak my thought here.

Well... this site is certainly not without a degree of censorship. We cannot engage in political debate. Arguments must maintain an agreed upon level of civility. As this is a site open to juveniles, we agree to avoid profanity, extremes of vulgarity, the posting of pornographic images or videos, blatant insults, etc... On the other hand... having your opinions challenged by another member... perhaps one employing strong rhetoric and a greater mastery of language... is not the same as censorship.

I think I own about 2,000 acres of land on this forum*: not sure if that puts me in the bourgeoisie or proletariat class.

*land claims are completely fictitious and are the product of the imagination of a deranged emu just seeking to find some buried cheese.

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Originally Posted by stlukesguild

Being fully honest I will admit that there are certain members whose posts I will read religiously. A good many of these are individuals with whom I do not always see eye to eye... but I always find have something interesting... or provocative... to contribute. Others work I almost never read... unless I stumble upon it on a thread that is of real interest. Do you honestly read every last post here and afford them all the same degree of value? I highly doubt it.
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I read only my own posts. Like Gwendolyn Fairfax, who always carried her own diary so she would have “something sensational to read on the train”, I always enjoy my own prose (however much I may disagree with the positions it espouses).

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Originally Posted by Ecurb

I read only my own posts. Like Gwendolyn Fairfax, who always carried her own diary so she would have “something sensational to read on the train”, I always enjoy my own prose (however much I may disagree with the positions it espouses).

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Interesting. A diary to read about sensational. There is so much to be seen and had just about everywhere. To bury one's head in a book to find thrill is rather constrained. But then again I am not Gwendolyn Fairfax and she is not me. Sensational is not a diary but something completely different.
I guess I enjoy all prose in general too when written to fun but I do enjoy new at all time. Sensational is new new being nicely surprising unexpected.

Anyway back to the OP egalitarianism requires one to control over it.
Control equal egalitarianism not its wider sense but in a different way.

I'm brand-spankin' new here, but experienced on a couple of other boards (upon which I have turned my ample backside because they dismissed the enlightenment I offered) and it has been my experience that, over time, certain posters rise like intellectual cream to the top of the discussion brew. They almost always know what they're talking about and provide cites and background, or they are wittily self-mocking and respectful of others, or they are articulate and good writers, or they are simply very likeable folks with whom everyone gets along famously. I'd say people like that have a greater ethos on a board, but not that they are necessarily "better people." I like the idea of egaltarianism as the default assumption on a message board, but one certainly can forfeit his or her equality by posting outright stupid (as opposed to temporarily ignorant) stuff.

"temporarily ignorant"? There's an interesting phrase. "Ah, I remember my 'all women are inferior phase' - lasted a good year or so." Or maybe I am temporarily ignorant in not knowing what temporarily ignorant implies.

Ignorance only lasts until new information comes along. Because I am new, I am ignorant of the general political leaning of the members of this board (I know, the board is apolitical, but people are not) but that ignorance is temporary. I'll soon learn how people lean. But as my favorite Texas stand-up comic once said, "Ain't no fixin' stupid." There are people who insist on using "ironic" incorrectly, no matter how many times it is explained to them. That's just stupid.

None of this is based on empirical evidence, mind you. It's just how I see it. Which may be stupid.

Ignorance rallies a pack of cards that should shuffle before handing out. If they are not then ignorance may shine to it.
It is about the element and how we tolerate it. Learning only shapes if it rages inside and removes the stale from the ripe. What is left is therefor appropriate and knowledge may enter the equation. It is however only tolerance and misrepresentated ideologies that tend to mix and recreate an abundance of surreal ignorance to the point of silliness. One wonders if one must fly to the moon or return to the caves. What is in between must be left to chance. Only this once.

I don't know how much credibility I have, but I'd like to contribute my two cents if no one minds. I wouldn't say that were all equal. Frankly some individuals are better at writing short stories than others. And some are better at poetry. Some have read a lot more literature, and have more knowledge to contribute. In the wide array of subjects in this forum, there will always be some just naturally better or more skilled in one field. However I think we're all generally equal in our ability to contribute what ever good quality we have to offer. A body with several good arms, but no legs is useless.

And this goes further, of course. Perhaps there's some here gifted with several talents. So be it, that's good. That just means those individuals have a higher degree of responsibility to help others on their progress. I find the most wasteful thing a talented person can do is just look down on others for being inferior. If your so much greater than the other person, be humble enough to give aid to them. If the "inferior" writer, poet, or lit user doesn't agree with you, well fine, at least you offered your own suggestions and assistance.

The Lit Forum isn't a competition, at least this is how I perceived it when I joined. I saw it as a realm for all dedicated writers and readers to come together for feedback, inspiration, and simply for a common interest. If you are here just for the sake of argument, find a forum for debating.

Well said, sir/madam. I came here hoping to sip a virtual bourbon while talking about lit-rit-sherr. I expect that my naievte about certain genres and authors will earn me some snark, but I'm a big boy and I can take it.

If you are here just for the sake of argument, find a forum for debating.

Certainly, if one's sole purpose for participation is one-upmanship and argument, that I would find of little value and behavior only worthy of trolls. However, I will suggest that I am of the firm belief that debate has its worth. Personally, I find that debating a point forces me to clarify my own thinking and the reasoning behind it... and at times, even leads me to a reconsideration of my position in light of the points made by others.

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Originally Posted by stlukesguild

If you are here just for the sake of argument, find a forum for debating.

Certainly, if one's sole purpose for participation is one-upmanship and argument, that I would find of little value and behavior only worthy of trolls. However, I will suggest that I am of the firm belief that debate has its worth. Personally, I find that debating a point forces me to clarify my own thinking and the reasoning behind it... and at times, even leads me to a reconsideration of my position in light of the points made by others.

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I'll agree, proper debate is constructive and healthy. Like how you just expressed your opinion on debating, which seemed contrary to mine until I revisited the thought and saw the logic in what you said. I guess the style of debate I'm against is one where one takes any slight disagreement as a personal attack on their character...that's just shallow. In addition, anyone who replies with sarcastic bitter remarks to someone's work should just keep it to themselves. If you have a problem with something said or written by someone, be clear about it. There's more productive ways of communication then saying "you suck" or "wow...well I'm glad I spent 5 minutes of my time on THAT..." that serves nothing of value to anyone.

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Originally Posted by Shaman_Raman

There's more productive ways of communication then saying "you suck" or "wow...well I'm glad I spent 5 minutes of my time on THAT..." that serves nothing of value to anyone.

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Wow, you've just quoted every literary agent I've ever written to. Are you a literary agent? Will you help me get published?

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Originally Posted by Foe

Wow, you've just quoted every literary agent I've ever written to. Are you a literary agent? Will you help me get published?

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Lol, I'm afraid not Foe. Yeah I'm not too surprised by that, we live in a money loving, time-is-money world where if one feels you've wasted their time, they respond bitterly. However everyone's on this forum for free, so if you feel you wasted your time reading something, tough, no one had a gun to your head forcing you too. To bring back up the trolls, don't unleash your unhappiness onto others, just go for a jog or take a few shots till your happy.

P.S. Although I'm not, I'd be interested in reading any piece you'd like to publish, if you are comfortable posting it? Although I may have to put my name on it if it's too good :biggrinjester:

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." - George Orwell

"We are all worms, but I do believe that I am a glow-worm." - Winston Churchill

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Originally Posted by mortalterror

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." - George Orwell

"We are all worms, but I do believe that I am a glow-worm." - Winston Churchill

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equality is an odd thing. No one is to measure oneself against another. It is puritanical to do so. It is best to just consider there is no equality but just animosity towards each other for some parts.
or there is the other way civility and charms where all of us are at a same intellectual level. There does not seem to be a middle ground.

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Originally Posted by cacian

equality is an odd thing. No one is to measure oneself against another. It is puritanical to do so. It is best to just consider there is no equality but just animosity towards each other.

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Ouch, I'm sorry you feel that way Casian, but I disagree. If animosity is the only feeling we express toward each other here, I want no part of the forum. But I'm staying, because I think we all have a common interest in mind, as writers, which is: to improve our writing, and express it. I know you probably feel you have nothing but enemies here as of lately, but that's not true. All of the negative responses your getting are rooted in pure frustration, because people here have a hard time interpreting what your saying, sometimes myself included. But if it makes you feel any better, I can see your intelligent. I may have to read some of your posts 10 times before I get it, but I know you have intriguing points to make. We just want some clarity on your part, so we can contribute more to the discussion, instead of sitting there dumbfounded.

But if you feel animosity is the primary feeling toward one another, maybe you'd be more comfortable somewhere else. Unless that's just your general world view, than I give my sincere apologies.

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Originally Posted by Shaman_Raman

Ouch, I'm sorry you feel that way Casian, but I disagree. If animosity is the only feeling we express toward each other here, I want no part of the forum. But I'm staying, because I think we all have a common interest in mind, as writers, which is: to improve our writing, and express it. I know you probably feel you have nothing but enemies here as of lately, but that's not true. All of the negative responses your getting are rooted in pure frustration, because people here have a hard time interpreting what your saying, sometimes myself included. But if it makes you feel any better, I can see your intelligent. I may have to read some of your posts 10 times before I get it, but I know you have intriguing points to make. We just want some clarity on your part, so we can contribute more to the discussion, instead of sitting there dumbfounded.

But if you feel animosity is the primary feeling toward one another, maybe you'd be more comfortable somewhere else. Unless that's just your general world view, than I give my sincere apologies.

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Dear Shaman what I said earlier was slightly misguided from my part and I do apologise in advance. What I had posted earlier was written hastily and did not read it to check it was ok and therefore added to it. What I wanted to say is sometimes the overexcitement about something said written gets the best of us/me and one writes something and the other reads the other way. Many times I read sometimes and misunderstand it and so my reply does not capture the essence of the point nor does it counteract as a reply. It is simply down to misunderstanding . There is no malice there whatsoever from either parties.
I agree that the way I write is partly the reason and I try now as much as I can to initiate clarity. I do enjoy LitNet and have many friends here.
And yes so we are equal in terms of measures and what we contribute. Tolerance is one of them and enquiring for the sake of learning is another.
Everyone is different I guess haha. :)

I pretty much search any thread I'm interested in for a response by any of the following; stlukesguild, jbi, that guy who reads norse stuff and mortalterror (threads where mortalterror and stluke fight are particularly amusing) and skim/ignore everyone else unless they say something I particularly agree or disagree with.