Your "Free Range" Eggs Are BS

A lot of people on litnet have recently mentioned that they'll only buy "free-range" eggs. That term is really misleading. I think many people imagine that the free range chickens wander around a field, "freely," in the sun ect. like this:

http://worldtruth.tv/wp-content/uplo...FreeRange1.jpg

That's the power of suggestive wording, but the reality of the situation in North America is that "free range" basically just means "cage free," and beyond that there's very little regulation, so instead of stuffing the chickens in individual cages they stuff a whole ****-ton of chickens into a large room, like this:

http://nikematanza.files.wordpress.c...range-hens.jpg

I guess they are technically wandering around freely, but they're still all stuffed into a small area. So, buying "free range" eggs makes us feel like we're doing something good, but it's really not much better for the chickens. That's why free range eggs cost almost the same as regular eggs.

Here, read this:

http://www.cracked.com/article_19433...r4=recommended

The bit about free-range chickens is on page two (click "next"). The articles are worded to be entertaining and to communicate a lot of information quickly, you should click the hyperlinked words if you want to see where the information actually derives from.

Read this also:

http://www.cracked.com/article_19896...eding-you.html

Basically you've likely never had real honey (you've had honey-flavored corn syrup), salmon isn't pink anymore, kobe beef doesn't exist outside of Japan, and maybe 10% of the olive oil you eat isn't sunflower oil.

This would depend on labelling laws though, which in North America are often misleading. There are some limits on crowding for the "organic" label in Canada.

Although, you can get those roaming the sun type eggs from certain farmer's markets if you look for them, just not at supermarkets.

I've had real honey and it's gross in comparison to the corn-syrup stuff. Also, wild salmon often isn't pink anyway, it has to do with their diet.

Edit: It doesn't really take much to convince me that the Agrobusiness community is evil and has far too much influence with government, they're as bad as the arms industry.

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Originally Posted by OrphanPip

I've had real honey and it's gross in comparison to the corn-syrup stuff.

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I had it once from a honey farm in Saskatchewan, it kind of has the consistancy of mashed-up kid's glue sticks.

here on the ice free range means 'better living conditions than others but not perfect' in my opinion. they have more room than on the pic above but not as great as the outdoors chicken.

It's not perfect but it's better than the other stuff so I'd rather put my money into that.

We are often fooled by commercialism and words like 'free-range' or even 'natural'. Research is needed if you want to know what you eat. I don't mean that as a vegetarian saying you shouldn't eat meat, but you should know where it comes from.

I am reading a good book 'Eating Animals' about this stuff, very interesting. Only on page 50 but this issue has been mentioned.

I don't know what it is like in America, but in Europe we have a very regulated system. With accurate and strict labels which are controlled and checked and regulated.

3) this mean the chickens are raised in cages in dark factory like rooms. essentially the chicken is given the same amount of treatment as a bottle is in a bottle making factory. These are the cheapest.

2) Chickens are raised without cages but in large factory like rooms, essentially what your picture above is.

1) Chickens are raised half outdoors and half in buildings.

0) these are literary free-range eggs. They are raised wandering the fields as they would have been in the olden days. No this is not mere labeling propaganda as the European Food institute (which is a serious organization unlike in other countries) is very strict and accurate when it comes to labeling. Naturally the 0 eggs are the most expensive and at 2 pounds fifty for a pack of 6 eggs, is not a very accessible price. But then again costs are such because it is a lot cheaper to raise chickens like factory products than as chickens.

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Originally Posted by Helga

We are often fooled by commercialism and words like 'free-range' or even 'natural'.

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"Natural" is the worst. Anything could be considered "natural."

It'd be nice if we had a system like Alex describes. Do Europeans use transglutaminase and dye in their meat?

The best eggs were ones my uncle used to raise in his backyard when I was a tacker. Big rich golden yolks like the sun in the morning, and incredible flavor - didn't need to add salt. All supermarket/deli/service station (pre-packaged) eggs the chickens are stressed, which is bad news for any organic life-form.

A while back a mate grew his own eggs which were pretty good, probably the same grade as my uncles' but tastebuds become less sensitive as we grow, and colour intensity fades.

Unfortunately for him (and me) he had an argument with his neighbor over tree branches hanging over his side of the fence, and the neighbor began throwing onion scraps into the hen house, resulting in eggs even more inedible than the pale tasteless supermarket variety.


Also natural honey needs to be melted.

Our next-door neighbour has beehives, and she sometimes gives us jars of honey from them. And I am here to tell you that it's disgusting in a completely different way to the disgustingness of mass-produced honey. You know, naturally disgusting, as opposed to synthetically disgusting.

Actually, that's a bit glib. I think that the honey we get commercially here really is honey and not corn-syrup. But as the stuff makes me retch, I can't say I care much either way.

I can't believe anyone would think honey is gross. Luckily, I get a lot of real honey, from beehives and all that, as I still live in a country where most things are not mass produced...
I will say that milk straight from the cow, however, is a bit gross... or difficult to drink. It is way too creamy. And you have to boil it first... and then cool. Bah, too much work.

But the eggs I eat are generally from small farms and most vegetables and fruit I eat is from local farmers and growers... some of it is from our own garden at our weekend house.

I'm in much the same position as Mark - I get quite a lot of honey from next door. My neighbour is a very nice chap, and he gives us quite a few jars a year on the basis that a fair bit of his crop will ultimately have come from our garden.

Unlike Mark, I love the stuff - and it's certainly better than that which you get in the supermarket (though that by no means tastes bad). As for chicken, I suppose I don't really know - as a student, I'm rather low on cash so often end up going for the cheapest I can get, though I'll admit a preference for free-range eggs.

I do wonder whether that article Juniper posted is perhaps indulging in a spot of fear-mongering though?

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Originally Posted by PoeticPassions

I can't believe anyone would think honey is gross.

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I find that hard to believe as well. One shouldn't expect honey to taste like processed cane sugar.

I wouldn't pay extra to buy anything because of a "natural" or "organic" label on it, but then I'm not the one doing most of the shopping. My wife thinks the brown colored eggs are better than the white colored ones. Is there any truth to that?

Brown is better. I have not taken the time to research, but on the island many people have their own chickens and they produce brown eggs (and are in their yard) which are typically double yolked. The hens I had were about 50% double yolked.

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Originally Posted by YesNo

I find that hard to believe as well. One shouldn't expect honey to taste like processed cane sugar.

I wouldn't pay extra to buy anything because of a "natural" or "organic" label on it, but then I'm not the one doing most of the shopping. My wife thinks the brown colored eggs are better than the white colored ones. Is there any truth to that?

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The colour of the egg is down to the breed of the bird. It makes no difference to flavour or quality which are more influenced by diet.

True fact (courtesy of QI) :D

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Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

A lot of people on litnet have recently mentioned that they'll only buy "free-range" eggs. That term is really misleading. I think many people imagine that the free range chickens wander around a field, "freely," in the sun ect. like this:

http://worldtruth.tv/wp-content/uplo...FreeRange1.jpg

That's the power of suggestive wording, but the reality of the situation in North America is that "free range" basically just means "cage free," and beyond that there's very little regulation, so instead of stuffing the chickens in individual cages they stuff a whole ****-ton of chickens into a large room, like this:

http://nikematanza.files.wordpress.c...range-hens.jpg

I guess they are technically wandering around freely, but they're still all stuffed into a small area. So, buying "free range" eggs makes us feel like we're doing something good, but it's really not much better for the chickens. That's why free range eggs cost almost the same as regular eggs.

Here, read this:

http://www.cracked.com/article_19433...r4=recommended

The bit about free-range chickens is on page two (click "next"). The articles are worded to be entertaining and to communicate a lot of information quickly, you should click the hyperlinked words if you want to see where the information actually derives from.

Read this also:

http://www.cracked.com/article_19896...eding-you.html

Basically you've likely never had real honey (you've had honey-flavored corn syrup), salmon isn't pink anymore, kobe beef doesn't exist outside of Japan, and maybe 10% of the olive oil you eat isn't sunflower oil.

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YEAH! Spread the word, my friend. Spread the word.

I was fencing on a large free-range chicken farm and all the chickens stayed inside the shed! The hatches were open, but it was freezing and they had more sense than to leave their warm shed. We there for a week and saw about three chickens brave the outdoors.

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Originally Posted by TheFifthElement

The colour of the egg is down to the breed of the bird. It makes no difference to flavour or quality which are more influenced by diet.

True fact (courtesy of QI) :D

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That's what I was hoping to hear. We'll probably continue to buy the brown colored eggs since my wife likes that color on them. They look more like real eggs to us at the moment.

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Originally Posted by prendrelemick

I was fencing on a large free-range chicken farm and all the chickens stayed inside the shed! The hatches were open, but it was freezing and they had more sense than to leave their warm shed. We there for a week and saw about three chickens brave the outdoors.

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Although they might enjoy some freedom, I think chickens prefer the security of a penned location, not so much to keep them in as to keep other predatory animals out.

I feel sad when I see cows being mistreated, but I've never felt the same when it came to chickens. They just seem so dumb. Come on, you can chop a chocken's head off and it'll still run around. I just don't think sadness or fear is possible for that animal.

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Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandis

I feel sad when I see cows being mistreated, but I've never felt the same when it came to chickens. They just seem so dumb. Come on, you can chop a chocken's head off and it'll still run around. I just don't think sadness or fear is possible for that animal.

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When I was a child I would help my dad slaughter chickens. He would place their head on a log of firewood set upright and use an axe to remove the head. Their wings do flap around after the shock of losing their head. I don't know what causes that. Perhaps death is not instantaneous once the head has been removed. I have heard that people have seen the eyes of the condemned blinking after they were guillotined, but I can't verify that.

My dad ultimately got rid of all animals and only grew grain because he did not want to slaughter any of them.

There are probably more humane ways to kill chickens, but I think they know they are going to die and they feel fear but they can't do anything about it. They may even feel betrayed, but that might be hard to argue.

It's because the part of the brain, particularly the kind that controls motor functions, is low on the chicken's neck, so if you don't chop far enough down, it can live. There's actually a chicken that lived for months after having its head chopped off. The family fed it with an eye-dropper and put it on display at carnivals.

Edit: I just found the Wikipedia article. His name was Mike.

^Yeah, but that's just motor function in the hind brain, the majority of the brain is removed so it's like you're giving them an über lobotomy. You could do something similar to humans, so removing part of an animal's brain doesn't prove that it doesn't suffer when it experiences elongated stress. I personally really like chickens, they're one of my favorite animals (much to my boyfriend's mockery). My dad's side is Sask. farmers, I always liked watching the chickens walk (bob, bob, bob, bob), and I like how fluffy they are, their stomach feathers are really soft. They're stupid, but most animals are stupid.

But that's not the point, it doesn't bother me that people who could care less about them aren't protesting in the streets for chicken welfare, I take issue with the fact that North Americans are being tricked with the phrase "free-range eggs," that's not right. If people want to buy something under the impression that it's causing less animal suffering, it should actually cause less animal suffering. What's more, outside of buying eggs at a farmer's market and asking the farmer who harvested those eggs (and there aren't any farmers markets in rural Alberta anyway), these people don't have the option to buy eggs or meat that they know was harvested in a way they accept as humane because the food labeling system here is so unspecific.

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Originally Posted by Lokasenna

I do wonder whether that article Juniper posted is perhaps indulging in a spot of fear-mongering though?

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Cracked is a humor site ("America's only humor site since 1958!"). The hyperlinks throughout which serve as "proof" are generally from science and news sites, though.

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Originally Posted by YesNo

Although they might enjoy some freedom, I think chickens prefer the security of a penned location, not so much to keep them in as to keep other predatory animals out.

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Well, they've been domesticated for thousands of years (are there even wild chickens?), so that's generations upon generations of chickens being bred for agriculture life, artificially selected for plumpness, egg production &c, not their ability to defend themselves and survive in the wild. I don't think the species would even exist if we didn't need them for eggs and meat, they're too helpless. Still, I understand that many people can't afford to buy fancy meat, eggs and milk from animals which suffered as little as possible, but it would be nice to have the option.

Actually I think the brown eggs are wholemeal eggs (Whaa whaa! Stop me! Somebody stop me!)

The Kentucky Fried Chicken Corporation did quite a bit to prevent chicken suffering back in the seventies when it was found that they were using the cheaper rabbit meat in place of poultry. It contained so many chemicals for flavour and tenderising it was actually poison. They recovered market share by changing their name to KFC*.

Apparently free chicken meat is yummy, but though we did have a rooster at one point (Fred) which was acquired as a purple coloured chick from a fair, my infant mind was so scarred when I saw them lob its head off and then had to witness the nightmare spectacle of its body run around the yard spurting blood - well I couldn't eat it, and didn't. Couldn't even eat the vegetables so had cornflakes for dinner instead.



*Sorry, can't find a link - but it is true.

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Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

My dad's side is Sask. farmers, I always liked watching the chickens walk (bob, bob, bob, bob), and I like how fluffy they are, their stomach feathers are really soft. They're stupid, but most animals are stupid.

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Man, I love the chickens around here--the neighbors have some and they roam across several people's yards for grubs and fire ants, etc. (seriously, when the chickens showed up, suddenly no more fire ant problems EVER again). They are 100% primed to spaz out if something unusual happens, and they move around pretty herky-jerky, but they aren't quite as dumb as that motion makes them look.

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Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

But that's not the point, it doesn't bother me that people who could care less about them aren't protesting in the streets for chicken welfare, I take issue with the fact that North Americans are being tricked with the phrase "free-range eggs," that's not right. If people want to buy something under the impression that it's causing less animal suffering, it should actually cause less animal suffering. What's more, outside of buying eggs at a farmer's market and asking the farmer who harvested those eggs (and there aren't any farmers markets in rural Alberta anyway), these people don't have the option to buy eggs or meat that they know was harvested humanely because the food labeling system here is so unspecific and unregulated.

Well, they have been domesticated for thousands of years (are there even wild chickens?), so that's generations upon generations of chickens being bred for agriculture life, artificially selected for plumpness, egg production &c, not their ability to defend themselves and survive in the wild. I don't think the species would even exist if we didn't need them for eggs and meat, they're too helpless. Still, I understand that many people can't afford to buy fancy meat, eggs and milk from animals which suffered as little as possible, but it would be nice to have the option.

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I used to see "wild chickens" (grouse) and "wild turkeys" (wild turkeys) where I liked to go hiking in Virginia. Those animals definitely had different behavior than the domestic versions. The turkeys roamed around in a dispersed flock, lurching distances, and then lookng around secretly, for food (best I could tell), and the grouse pretty much stayed absolutely hidden in bushes and leaves, and stayed completely quiet if anyone was in the area, and then shot off like a torpedo with a surprising "wooo" noise if "a threat" happened to get within 10-15 yards of them. They are like booby traps, kind of. (EDIT: actually, the Turkeys seemed to do the same sort of "suddenly fly for a while then crawl around" like the grouse, but the Turkeys fly further, don't hide as desperately, and are more casual about it--and do it as a flock)

The chickens in my neighborhood seem pretty vulnerable, compared to grouse--but a big rooster and the feisty hens are generally MORE than enough to dissuade the starving, feral cats eyeing chicks. For the most part anyhow, generally.

Actually, the hens are quite beautiful, and the chicks are of course VERY cute. The males in the particular species we got around here are pretty colorful, but the Number One Rooster Dude is something spectacular, the sort of guy you see on plates hung on the wall of a dining room. And he isn't dumb. I've seen him stand stock still, cool as ice, as a German Shepherd sprinted right at him in open space, recognizing that the dog would reach the end of his chain less than three yards from where the rooster was standing (something the youngish shepherd hadn't yet figured out). And this dog didn't always wear that chain out there...

Like other animals, chickens will learn things about people--in particular, they will figure out who might feed them. But another interesting thing is this: the rooster provides the best example of "gentlemanly" or "chivalrous" behavior I have ever personally seen in an animal. Apparently, if he doesn't leave lot of food lying around for the hens, they start to appreciate him less... So, although a rooster will sometimes grab the king's share of food available, the most common thing to see is him allowing the hens to fight over it as he struts around the vicinity, not eating much of any of it at all, just keeping an eye out for trouble and pecking at any other boys that might want to be part of the event. Yeah, actually, they also make it a point to pretty much deny other males of every opportunity to eat, when they can...

Sounds simple, but sometimes these things end up in delicate balances, and interesting decisions get made. (And, yes, sometimes stupid decisions too.) But I don't think they're as dumb as they sometimes look--that jerky and spazzy behavior is just a sort of "strategy" or "mode" or something. It's not quite the same as seeing humans spazzing out about stuff.

We're tricked by a lot of phrases. Here's another: when it's claimed something is made with 100% anything, like, "Our burgers are made with 100% beef." Well, sure the beef part of the burger is surely 100% beef, and who knows which part of the cow.

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Originally Posted by billl

I used to see "wild chickens" (grouse) and "wild turkeys" (wild turkeys) where I liked to go hiking in Virginia.

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Ohhh, grouse are wild chickens. We have those here, they make a really weird noise. It sounds like a ball falling down the stairs, you can heare it from pretty far away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgh7n...eature=related

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Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandis

We're tricked by a lot of phrases.

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"Collateral damage? That doesn't sound so bad!"

A couple of year ago I was in Malta for summer, and I stooped by a MCdonalds and they had a huge advertisement saying "our French fries are now made of 100% potatoes"

It was the greatest marketing fail I have seen to date..

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Originally Posted by billl

And he isn't dumb. I've seen him stand stock still, cool as ice, as a German Shepherd sprinted right at him in open space, recognizing that the dog would reach the end of his chain less than three yards from where the rooster was standing (something the youngish shepherd hadn't yet figured out). And this dog didn't always wear that chain out there...

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I've seen that happen. It makes me wonder which species is more stupid, dogs or chickens.

The last handful of chickens I was around were truly free-range. They could go anywhere, but stayed near the house. The dog we had had to be chained. The chickens knew exactly how far the dog's leash allowed it to go and they would walk right up to the circumference of the dog's space and just cross over. When they did that, the dog would lurch at them. They would turn around and rush away making squawking noises as if to say, "Help! The big, bad dog is gonna get us!" Then they would go back and try again.

Maybe they were trying to make friends with the dog, but I suspect they were deliberately tormenting it. It was the closest thing they had to a thrill ride at an amusement park.

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Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandis

I feel sad when I see cows being mistreated, but I've never felt the same when it came to chickens. They just seem so dumb. Come on, you can chop a chocken's head off and it'll still run around. I just don't think sadness or fear is possible for that animal.

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Chickens definitely feel fear. A friend and I once went to get some chicken for his grandmother at the butcher shop she goes to. They kept live chickens in a stack of wall cages, and when chicken was ordered, they'd pull one out and a few minutes later, give you fresh meat. Those birds screamed constantly whenever anyone walked near the cages.

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Originally Posted by YesNo

I've seen that happen. It makes me wonder which species is more stupid, dogs or chickens.

The last handful of chickens I was around were truly free-range. They could go anywhere, but stayed near the house. The dog we had had to be chained. The chickens knew exactly how far the dog's leash allowed it to go and they would walk right up to the circumference of the dog's space and just cross over. When they did that, the dog would lurch at them. They would turn around and rush away making squawking noises as if to say, "Help! The big, bad dog is gonna get us!" Then they would go back and try again.

Maybe they were trying to make friends with the dog, but I suspect they were deliberately tormenting it. It was the closest thing they had to a thrill ride at an amusement park.

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That's a funny story.

A few years ago, a nearby park had some significant standing water left over from a flood. I was walking by and saw a dog running through the water at a group of ducks. They flew up and settled on the other side of the "pond", and the dog immediately ran over there. They took off again to the other side, the dog followed, repeat. The dog was clearly having a great time; not sure the ducks were.

To add to the growing pool of 'chickens are really dumb' stories, I was amused by some particularly idiotic speciens last year...

I was helping a friend clean up his allotment, which meant turning over the soil once we'd got rid of all the weeds. The allotment next door had chickens roaming about, and was seperated from ours by a chain-link fence. The gaps in this fence were just about big enough for a chicken to squeeze its head through, but because the feathers back up against the chain it made it very difficult for them to get their heads back through. I had great fun watching the chickens stick their heads through hoping to find something in the turned earth, get stuck, and then proceed with much frantic squaking and thrashing to finally get their heads back through the fence. Sure enough, though, after a few seconds they'd stick there heads back through for a second, third, fourth time, and so on.

Really, really stupid creatures.

I've had four dogs and they've all done that before, though nt multiple times.

May I add that all the male chicks in egg production are gassed or shreddered alive right after hatching, because they're of no use to the egg industry? It's almost impossible to find chicken breeds to buy eggs from where this isn't done. Whether "free range", "organic" or whatever, buying eggs supports this barbaric practice.

I'm from Switzerland and people here are proud of welfare laws for animal agriculture. In practice, that means that instead of 99% of animals raised for food purposes coming out of factory farms (as it's the case in the US), it's only 90%, and the factory farms a bit less horrible. Even though we import a lot of eggs from abroad, where they're from battery hens. That then goes into products with "hidden eggs", where consumers don't even wonder where it all came from. And yes, even a small country like Switzerland, with its 7 million inhabitants, manages to gass or ground 2.3 million male chicks each year. So much for progressive laws.

I've vaguely wondered about the male chicks before. I think I always knew they were killed in some weird mechanized industrial process, but I alway held out the hope that "well, maybe there's some kind of genetic engineering they do so only females are born, yeah, that's it... better not look it up... or think about it ever..."

*shudder* I hate industrial meat production, it's just aesthetically gross. Imagine all of those animals stuffed in, wallowing in faeces, feathers, blood, fur and mysterious liquid, bleh! What a stressful environment for food to come from.

My attitude comes from being raised by hunters I guess. I'd be lying if I said that killing in hunting is always neat or cleaner than factory animals (from what I understand, factory cows and pigs get a hammer to the head, which sounds pretty quick and easy). The killing in hunting can be disturbing. It's generally pretty cut-and-dry, in the ribs at an angle and through the vital organs of the torso aiming for the heart. It generally goes well for experienced hunters like my dad, but inexperienced hunters sometimes screw it up. Still, I'd rather my brother accidently shatter a deer's shoulder and have to track him for four kms than eat industrial meat, at least that deer got a few good years in of being a regular deer. *shrug* Seems preferable to me, if I were an ungulate destined to be eaten.

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Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

I've vaguely wondered about the male chicks before. I think I always knew they were killed in some weird mechanized industrial process, but I alway held out the hope that "well, maybe there's some kind of genetic engineering they do so only females are born, yeah, that's it... better not look it up... or think about it ever..."

*shudder* I hate industrial meat production, it's just aesthetically gross. Imagine all of those animals stuffed in, wallowing in faeces, feathers, blood, fur and mysterious liquid, bleh! What a stressful environment for food to come from.

My attitude comes from being raised by hunters I guess. I'd be lying if I said that killing in hunting is always neat or cleaner than factory animals (from what I understand, factory cows and pigs get a hammer to the head, which sounds pretty quick and easy). The killing in hunting can be disturbing. It's generally pretty cut-and-dry, in the ribs at an angle and through the vital organs of the torso aiming for the heart. It generally goes well for experienced hunters like my dad, but inexperienced hunters sometimes screw it up. Still, I'd rather my brother accidently shatter a deer's shoulder and have to track him for four kms than eat industrial meat, at least that deer got a few good years in of being a regular deer. *shrug* Seems preferable to me, if I were an ungulate destined to be eaten.

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Yea I have always wondered how someone could be anti-hunting and yet eat mass produced meat. It's kind of like someone being anti-prostitutin because he is a rapist so he doesn't need prostitutes. At best Don Quixote lunacy, at worst simple bigotry.

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Originally Posted by Dodo25

May I add that all the male chicks in egg production are gassed or shreddered alive right after hatching, because they're of no use to the egg industry? It's almost impossible to find chicken breeds to buy eggs from where this isn't done. Whether "free range", "organic" or whatever, buying eggs supports this barbaric practice.

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Yes I heard about this too, and it really is grotesque, not because of the manner they kill them but the mere fact that they never live. There is something so unnatural about farming nowadays, that I really am starting to believe my mother when she says that the negative energy around all these places is so bad that the meat we eat is essentially poison.

But if we want to look at this glass as half full, we are making progress; 70 years ago half of Europe was gassing humans, now at least it's only chickens.

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Originally Posted by Dodo25

May I add that all the male chicks in egg production are gassed or shreddered alive right after hatching, because they're of no use to the egg industry? It's almost impossible to find chicken breeds to buy eggs from where this isn't done. Whether "free range", "organic" or whatever, buying eggs supports this barbaric practice.

I'm from Switzerland and people here are proud of welfare laws for animal agriculture. In practice, that means that instead of 99% of animals raised for food purposes coming out of factory farms (as it's the case in the US), it's only 90%, and the factory farms a bit less horrible. Even though we import a lot of eggs from abroad, where they're from battery hens. That then goes into products with "hidden eggs", where consumers don't even wonder where it all came from. And yes, even a small country like Switzerland, with its 7 million inhabitants, manages to gass or ground 2.3 million male chicks each year. So much for progressive laws.

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Good grief, that's horrific. I had never thought about that before. *Shudder* indeed...

I'm not anti-hunting, I'm anti-hunter, because around here the majority of hunters seem to be complete douchebags. Not in any way applying this to all hunters, just the ones I live by.

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Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandis

I just don't think sadness or fear is possible for that animal

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I think fear is hard-wired into all animals. It's for survival.

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Originally Posted by billl

Like other animals, chickens will learn things about people--in particular, they will figure out who might feed them.

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Even fish do this. My grandparents had a big pond on their farm that had fish. My grandfather would feed them pellets everyday. When he went out with the tub o' pellets he would start whistling a specific tune. The fish would hear that tune and would come up to the surface in anticipation. The part of the pond closest to the feeding spot looked like it was boiling from all the little fish mouths opening and closing.

They only responded to that specific tune though.

Once I was in a restaurant that had an acquarium, and I watched a fish moving the little rocks on the bottom from one place to another.

I eat the meat, because it's what's available to me, as well as eggs (yes, organic if possible), but I've seen the videos of the sick cows that were slaughtered anyway for their meat, and I tend to agree with Alexander's mother. I'm going to make a concerted effort not to eat at fast food restaurants, and to eat more vegetables; and while I know organic doesn't mean what we might wish it meant, I will probably try to buy organic vegetables when possible.I live in a suburb, and the closest stores are Kroger's, Albertson's and Wal-Mart.