Almost finished with school, now what?

Evening all!

Long time lurker, first time poster!

I have been going to school off and on without any sort of plan. In fact, to earn money while in college I picked up a part time job as a dog groomer! It turned out to be a fantastic way to make money (and dogs are awesome), so I didn't have too much motivation to finish school in a hurry.

I have continued my education mostly because I find it interesting. I will be graduating with an English degree. It seems the natural path would be to pursue a degree in education so that I can teach. I have a friend who graduated 2 years ago or so and has had terrible luck trying to find work. He did finally land a part time position..but he says it's not very stable and he will never know until last minute if he will have the position for the next year.

I guess I am just looking for opinions from others who have been there. I don't want my degree to go to waste (although, is education ever a waste?) I can certainly make a living with my current job; I guess I just feel like I could be doing more.

Dont go into teacher because you think it's the only option. I have worked with teachers in that position, they are often poor teachers and they often don't like what they do. The first is a result of the second.

It is hard. The trick is to find what you are passionate about and pursue it.

I have continued my education mostly because I find it interesting. I will be graduating with an English degree. It seems the natural path would be to pursue a degree in education so that I can teach. I have a friend who graduated 2 years ago or so and has had terrible luck trying to find work.

Unless someone were absolutely passionate about teaching I would advise them strongly to avoid majoring in education... at least in the US. The field has changed drastically from when I first began to teach not all that many years ago. The field has become incredibly politicized with teachers being blamed for virtually every failing of students and the society as a whole. State governments, short of funds due to the banking collapse and the decline in property values have targeted teachers (along with other state employees) as being grossly overpaid (in spite of the fact that when the economy was roaring along just fine, we were laughed at for wasting our efforts in such an underpaid and undervalued field). Here is Ohio, some 20,000+ teachers were laid off last year with another 10,000+ lay-offs expected this year. State politicians are pulling every trick possible to slash teacher salaries and benefits in an attempt to privatize the schools. Right now the focus is upon the big urban school districts, but teachers in the smaller suburban districts should recognize that when they are able to destroy the power of collective bargaining and the unions in those districts, the rest will fall into line or collapse like dominoes. A law pushed through in Ohio, but rescinded by voters last year established a salary schedule in which a teacher with a Masters Degree and 15 years experience would earn $30,000 a year. One could do better flipping burgers... with less stress and more respect.

Yeah, my sentiment exactly on teaching. You got to have a passion for it. Never mind the political garbage StLukes mentions (though he brings up very real problems that does effect teachers), his points about money are quite poignant, though. It illustrates that you really do have to have a passion for teaching. It's a hard, thankless job with students who are usually annoying at best, and complete a-holes at worse (or on average).

I'd suggest maybe try finding an editing job. It doesn't even have to be book--companies hire people to help create their documents, write for them, etc.

What country do you live in, OP?

Don't do it! It's quick burn out and too much stress. I sound like your friend. I struggled through my first 2 years of probation at the school I am currently at. (You are on probation in your first 2 years.) I made it and will have another contract for my fourth year in the school. Now that I made it, I know that I virtually will have a job as long as I need one. I work with the special ed. We say job security. It's hard to find a good special educator. I love the special ed. and will probably drag myself back for the next 20 years complaining the whole way.

St. Luke's is extremely articulate about the state of education in the USA. I live in a different state, inwhich all our superintendent does is obsess about test scores. What can you do except nod and smile. No teacher believes in these test, but they are not going away because of NCLB. The American society is obsessed with accountability as a way to control which direction the money flows.

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Originally Posted by stlukesguild

I have continued my education mostly because I find it interesting. I will be graduating with an English degree. It seems the natural path would be to pursue a degree in education so that I can teach. I have a friend who graduated 2 years ago or so and has had terrible luck trying to find work.

Unless someone were absolutely passionate about teaching I would advise them strongly to avoid majoring in education... at least in the US. The field has changed drastically from when I first began to teach not all that many years ago. The field has become incredibly politicized with teachers being blamed for virtually every failing of students and the society as a whole. State governments, short of funds due to the banking collapse and the decline in property values have targeted teachers (along with other state employees) as being grossly overpaid (in spite of the fact that when the economy was roaring along just fine, we were laughed at for wasting our efforts in such an underpaid and undervalued field). Here is Ohio, some 20,000+ teachers were laid off last year with another 10,000+ lay-offs expected this year. State politicians are pulling every trick possible to slash teacher salaries and benefits in an attempt to privatize the schools. Right now the focus is upon the big urban school districts, but teachers in the smaller suburban districts should recognize that when they are able to destroy the power of collective bargaining and the unions in those districts, the rest will fall into line or collapse like dominoes. A law pushed through in Ohio, but rescinded by voters last year established a salary schedule in which a teacher with a Masters Degree and 15 years experience would earn $30,000 a year. One could do better flipping burgers... with less stress and more respect.

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This is about what my district is going through, and it isn't pretty.

I was laid off last summer, hired back on the first day of school then given a second lay-off notice when I arrived to work on the first day. This lay-off was then rescinded. Class sizes are now 40+ students in the upper grades. Discipline is the worst I've ever seen (as the administrators fear losing further students); chaos, noise, and violence are a day to day reality swept under a rug by administrators fearful of the repercussions should the truth get out. This year my school made the news when a food fight turned into a riot resulting in dozens of injuries and hospital visits. With the collapse of the district... soon to be followed by public education in this state as a whole... I am looking toward pulling my retirement and returning to school and earning another degree... in anything but education.

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Originally Posted by Aidan

I have continued my education mostly because I find it interesting. I will be graduating with an English degree. It seems the natural path would be to pursue a degree in education so that I can teach. I have a friend who graduated 2 years ago or so and has had terrible luck trying to find work. He did finally land a part time position..but he says it's not very stable and he will never know until last minute if he will have the position for the next year.

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I think you should kill all your desire to work (permanently I mean) immediately after your degree, and go overseas to teach English. Pick up a English-teaching qualification and go travelling.

Or, just work for a while and travel. Then go back to where you came from, or don't. Just get out for a while to reflect on what you want out of life, instead of following what you think right now is a 'natural path'. Be sure that the path that you follow is something you won't regret later on, and not just for reasons of job stability.

Christ that's bad. I'm sorry that things are in such a mess, though I know that you mentioned some of that to me before but it is still shocking.

With teaching a lot depends upon where you are - what age you teach, what school, where (what country!) etc, etc, but for almost everywhere I know of is not easy at the moment anyway. I suppose that could be said for a lot of things, but it certainly applies to teaching. In many respects teaching is a thankless job and also not something that I could honestly and openly recommend at the moment. Of course if you end up in a nice position in a nice school then that's a different thing, but it would be a gamble branching out in this area, you could end up loving it (if you are very lucky) but the greater probability (without knowing your personal circumstances) would not be so positive.

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It is hard. The trick is to find what you are passionate about and pursue it.

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I used to think the same thing but now I don't believe it anymore, I don't think this is good advice. I think it is much better not to look to work as something that is going to be fulfilling because following that road is likely to end in disappointment. It could be better to see work as a necessary evil and nothing more - besides what a person is passionate about very rarely can be transformed into steady paid work. I am very passionate about a number of things but none of them can be found at the job centre.

For what it is worth my advice would be to try to develop your own business in something by working self-employed, in anything. Start by apprenticing yourself, learning the trade, save like mad and then gradually break away on your own. Save the passion for reading for your spare time just concentrate on making money and putting as much of it aside so you can retire early and get out of the whole sorry business for good. This is my honest advice.

If things fall as I plan it I will never work again after 50. This could have been much sooner if I knew back then what I know now, but of course everyone must learn their own errors in life too late. This is just cruel experience and can't be helped.

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Dont go into teacher because you think it's the only option. I have worked with teachers in that position, they are often poor teachers and they often don't like what they do. The first is a result of the second.

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On an idealistic level I agree with this type of sentiment. However, where does passionate for a subject get you? Can you honestly tell me you have come across many people more passionate about art than that of Stluke's for example? Take that passion and ram it through the thankless red tape and political nightmare that is the teaching profession and what becomes of it? By the time you have come out of the other end of the mangle it is a miracle that you are still standing, let alone still passionate about teaching, and that is before you even think about the students...

I am willing to admit that I haven't been in the profession long enough to shake off the idealism of it, but I disagree that all passion is destroyed by the politics of school. It is crushing, yes, but there are those who are able to shrug it off and remember that they are they to inspire/teach students - these are the good teachers, they do exist.

If you can find a job you're passionate about and love to do that it's a joy, good for you, but one should realize that's not going to happen. I've yet to meet anyone, no matter how much they like their job (teachers most definitely included), who doesn't look forward to Fridays and dread Mondays.

Still, I don't think work has to be as bad as a necessary evil, though I know many people who see work this way. I think it's quite possible to find a job that is fulfilling and enjoyable, difficult as it may be.

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Originally Posted by Charles Darnay

I am willing to admit that I haven't been in the profession long enough to shake off the idealism of it, but I disagree that all passion is destroyed by the politics of school. It is crushing, yes, but there are those who are able to shrug it off and remember that they are they to inspire/teach students - these are the good teachers, they do exist.

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Passion is something you would want in a teacher but it is not the only thing, neither is it the most important. Quite often I see a lot of posts where people talk about passion in teaching as if it is the only thing of importance. This is sometimes accompanied by the 'I'm here entertain me' school of thinking, when really learning is a two-way process and requires effort on both sides.

Having effective behaviour management, being consistent and fair, being calm under pressure, actually being in the classroom teaching and not endlessly off on courses (!), having clear objectives and outcomes, the ability to see the bigger picture - having presence (which is something you can't learn); using pace and intelligent structuring of lessons and other such things are as important if not more so than a passion for the subject/teaching. What use is an ardent passion for John Keats if the students around you are sticking pens in the ceiling or stapling their arms to the table? Some teachers would give up passion for the whole Romantic School of thinking for a deeper voice and a stern expression.

I'm not saying that passion is not a desirable element, it is, but neither does the formula: passion = good, no passion = bad, work at all, passion I find is overrated in this context. I have seen it with my own eyes; teachers who hate the job to the teeth but can cast a spell over the whole class and produce unbelievable results.

I did not mean to say ti was the only quality necessary, and I completely agree with what you wrote. But I do believe that passion (for teaching, for your subject, for your students) should be the impetus to go into teaching, as opposed to the idea of "well, what else am I going to do?" as the OP suggested.

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Originally Posted by Silas Thorne

I think you should kill all your desire to work (permanently I mean) immediately after your degree, and go overseas to teach English. Pick up a English-teaching qualification and go travelling.

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That's what my friend Alex did, he's got a master's in English lit. Apparently the work is easy, the expectations are low and the pay is good. Plus he gets to travel.

For those of you saying he SHOULDN'T teach: what do you suggest he does instead? (besides the suggestion already given by Silas).

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Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

That's what my friend Alex did, he's got a master's in English lit. Apparently the work is easy, the expectations are low and the pay is good. Plus he gets to travel.

For those of you saying he SHOULDN'T teach: what do you suggest he does instead? (besides the suggestion already given by Silas).

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I already gave my advice on what he should do, or rather what I would do.

Travelling is indeed a very good option if you can make it work. I certainly wish I had done that as well. You can't do everything though I suppose.

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Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

That's what my friend Alex did, he's got a master's in English lit. Apparently the work is easy, the expectations are low and the pay is good. Plus he gets to travel.

For those of you saying he SHOULDN'T teach: what do you suggest he does instead? (besides the suggestion already given by Silas).

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Well, he could be

• a technical writer for a major chemical, pharmaceutical, or software development company. The work would be boring and tedious, but the pay would be great. I did this for a while before moving into education.
  
• he could go into communications for mid-size company where he would write and distribute a range of online and print media to current and potential customers -- sort of a Jack-of-all-Media type. In my small community, there are several English-y people who do this.
  
• depending on the OP's supplementary skills, he could go into the computing industry -- writing scrips for video games or other computer applications where published writing or language is need, managing the content of a company website, . . . .
  
• he could also work in higher education without teaching: academic advising, grant writing, and foundation work all require communications/English skills.
  
• if social "do-gooding" is his preference he would work for a non-profit organization: the ACLU, the National Rifle Association, PETA, The American Cancer Society. . . .and countless other smaller organizations have need for people who can write and think well.

Of course, if he wants to talk about Virgina Woolf and Walt Whitman, then he may have to go into the classroom. But even there, there are plenty of options: private schools, charter schools, public schools, community colleges, liberal arts colleges, universities. . . .

Not all teaching experiences are as bad as the ones outlined here. It's true that American education is not a pleasant place now, but if he's a little Machiavellian about it, the petty obsession with appearances that so dominates American thinking about the educational system is easily manipulated. Of course, if the OP is not American, then perhaps the his/her country's educational politics are not as bad as they are in the US.

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Originally Posted by The Comedian

Of course, if the OP is not American, then perhaps the his/her country's educational politics are not as bad as they are in the US.

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Yeah, teaching in Canada is a respectable gig. I live in by far the most conservative province, and I've never heard anyone irrationally blame them for all of society's ills. Actually, I can't wrap my head around the situation in the United States. When I was growing up, teachers were mocked for being underpaid. Now funding has been cut, and they're suddenly overpaid? Did I miss something?

The pay isn't bad for Canadian teachers either. I don't have specific numbers, but my English teacher's husband was a welder (they're also well paid) and she said she makes more than him, so it's a good option for Canadians whether they're concerned about prestige or pay. Alberta's teachers had a big strike in about 1999, and everything's been mostly quiet since then although there is a lot of debate about funding in the arts (last year, Harper famously said "Canadians don't care about the arts" and it caused a bit of a ****storm).

Apparently 40% of college/university graduates end up in jobs for which they don't need a degree. I guess the OP (and anyone else in his situation) could also take his degree for it's most basic and obvious value (that is, education), and then in terms of social contribution for which you recieve monetary compensation he could become a cop or something.

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Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

The pay isn't bad for Canadian teachers either. I don't have specific numbers, but my English teacher's husband was a welder (they're also well paid) and she said she makes more than him, so it's a good option for Canadians whether they're concerned about prestige or pay. Alberta's teachers had a big strike in about 1999, and everything's been mostly quiet since then although there is a lot of debate about funding in the arts (last year, Harper famously said "Canadians don't care about the arts" and it caused a bit of a ****storm).

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They've been hitting the arts funding where people don't notice it. They gutted the National Film Board's budget, they have to close their screening rooms in Montreal and Toronto, their studios are staying open in Montreal but otherwise their ability to produce documentaries and small art films is going to be hit pretty hard, not to mention their ability to get those products out to the public.

They also cut funding to museums and art galleries across the country. Almost no one will notice or care. Also, federal libraries will no longer provide internet as of this year. Gah.

Edit: It's totally ideological too, the government is saving a few million dollars by killing the funding of all the environmental and cultural agencies they see as their natural enemies. In the meantime they created billion dollar deficits by cutting taxes every year for 5 year, morons.

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Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

For those of you saying he SHOULDN'T teach: what do you suggest he does instead? (besides the suggestion already given by Silas).

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Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandis

I'd suggest maybe try finding an editing job. It doesn't even have to be book--companies hire people to help create their documents, write for them, etc.

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Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

Actually, I can't wrap my head around the situation in the United States.

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Neither can any rational Americans.

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Originally Posted by OrphanPip

They've been hitting the arts funding where people don't notice it. They gutted the National Film Board's budget, they have to close their screening rooms in Montreal and Toronto, their studios are staying open in Montreal but otherwise their ability to produce documentaries and small art films is going to be hit pretty hard, not to mention their ability to get those products out to the public.

They also cut funding to museums and art galleries across the country. Almost no one will notice or care. Also, federal libraries will no longer provide internet as of this year. Gah.

Edit: It's totally ideological too, the government is saving a few million dollars by killing the funding of all the environmental and cultural agencies they see as their natural enemies. In the meantime they created billion dollar deficits by cutting taxes every year for 5 year, morons.

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I don't think the practice of arts will ever change, not in the foreseeable future, at least. We can try and explain the value of the arts in terms of practicality all we want (that we even have to points to a problem from the start), but it doesn't matter. Hell, there're way too many people who'd like to cut out arts altogether. I've talked to them. They're scary.

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Originally Posted by stlukesguild

I was laid off last summer, hired back on the first day of school then given a second lay-off notice when I arrived to work on the first day. This lay-off was then rescinded. Class sizes are now 40+ students in the upper grades. Discipline is the worst I've ever seen (as the administrators fear losing further students); chaos, noise, and violence are a day to day reality swept under a rug by administrators fearful of the repercussions should the truth get out. This year my school made the news when a food fight turned into a riot resulting in dozens of injuries and hospital visits. With the collapse of the district... soon to be followed by public education in this state as a whole... I am looking toward pulling my retirement and returning to school and earning another degree... in anything but education.

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St. Lukes, In my state they are putting trying to place as much blame on the teachers as much as possible with the new evaluation reports. I work with the lowest of the low and no one wants my job, so in a way I get lucky. But they are no starting to harass teachers and the union is virtually powerless.

St. Lukes, In my state they are putting trying to place as much blame on the teachers as much as possible with the new evaluation reports. I work with the lowest of the low and no one wants my job, so in a way I get lucky. But they are no starting to harass teachers and the union is virtually powerless.

The same here... and I half suspect the school boards of the major urban districts with the largest number of teachers and the strongest unions are in collusion with the far right politicians whose goal is to privatize the schools. A good number of teachers have looked at the history of our unions and how hard they had to fight for the rights and benefits we now enjoy and have called for more militant... violent... action. There were protests at the state capital last year as they tried to slash benefits and salaries for all the state employees including the police, fire, and state troopers. This failed miserably... and many of the police and state troopers spoke of using their .50 caliber rifles with scopes and taking out the governor who was trying to turn them into his own version of the Praetorian Guard. They've gotten smarter and are now on a campaign of "divide and conquer" going after the teachers first. They portray our salaries and benefits as exorbitant... in spite of the fact that most teachers have a Masters Degree and pay a 4% larger contribution to their retirement program than the private sector pays into Social Security.

Personally, I think the whole system will collapse within a year or two. They will attempt to shift all the students into private and charter schools... but no one is going to take this job on for $30,000 a year when they could make that much working at some lower management position at McDonald's.

I'd go on... but the wife and I went out for Mexican and I've had more than a few tequilas which always give me flashbacks of blackouts experienced years ago while living in NYC immediately after college.

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