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scary stories
too clinical
stories reminds me of Greek mythology
too many dos and don'ts
God/angels/demons all appear to want to punish and kill humans.
It is a male demoninated book written by more men.
1)Mary is a virgin
2)God is refered to as the father
3)Jesus is the son.
The trio stand as a bit sickly if the word father is to be titled as God.
Interesting. It seems that it's men that you don't want to believe in. I can understand that if you've been treated badly throughout your life by men. If you think that God just wants to punish and kill humans, then you must not have read the Bible at all. The whole theme is how God wants to save mankind. Yes, there are scary parts, but you get that in any history book. There are laws, but that is merely a part of culture. I don't understand the whole father/son issue, unless it is because you have had bad experiences in the past. My father was a wonderful man. I guess that is why I find favor in seeing a benevolent God being referred to as Father.
The Bible is tailored to believe in. It's nonsense. What else can be done with it but believe?
One can learn historical information from it. One can also get direction and incite. There are many passages about making wise choices in the Psalms and Proverbs. One can learn about God, that He IS a benevolent Being. Or one can choose to discard it without knowing what is actually in it.
The word Father is linked up to God.Quote:
Originally Posted by BienvenuJDC
Mary is said to be a Virgin
and Jesus is said to be the son of God.
what is the relationship between Mary and God telling me?
Father and Virgin??
Tailored is the word.Quote:
Originally Posted by cafolini
how is it tailored to hold believes if I am saying that I do not believe a word the bible says?
I'm not a huge fan of religion, but I am going to agree with Bienvenu on this one. I do like the Bible (as I do like: The Mishna, the Koran, Theogeny and Works and Days &c.)Quote:
Originally Posted by cafolini
While you may dismiss certain parts as ridiculous and only meant for those who believe, it is hard to ignore 1. the historic events that happen that have shaped the Levant and subsequent Western world and 2. The cultural influence.
It is impossible to study any Western lit. from Medieval to 20th century (when the Bible fades) without a fundamental knowledge of the stories.
Also, treating it as a piece of literature - it is not bad. Male-centric: yes. Riddled with contradictions: fine. Out of date: many of the laws are and Jews and Christians continue to fool themselves by picking out ones they like and claiming that those who disobey the ones they don't like are going against god (*cough cough).........but when all is said and done, there are some great stories.
So take it as a historic document if you don't believe in god and you still get a lot out of it.
Seems like a very biased outlook. Good luck in your endeavors then.Quote:
Originally Posted by cacian
I like the Bible. It has some good stories.
I'm going to assume you meant "do not believe a word" (sorry if i'm wrong).Quote:
Originally Posted by cacian
I would like to play Devil's advocate (ha!) and disagree with your point.
I'm going to believe - with no knowledge of you as a person - that you are not in favour of killing people. As well, you can probably admit that stealing is wrong, that adultery is something that you probably shouldn't do....that you shouldn't covet your neighbour's ox (for some reason).....you get my point.
There are some good points in there. We just tend to pick at the few that are - out of date, I guess.
Some of the most exciting action adventure pieces, if you ask me. And I'm speaking purely from a literature stand point. I'll sett all my literalist viewpoints aside for now. Honestly, who could come up with anything more exciting than when Moses was at the shore of the Red Sea with the Egyptian Army on their heels, and the waters just part allowing the people to escape through the bottom of the sea? Whether you see it as a historical event, or a mythological story, it's exciting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandi
The problem is not the stories it is the way they are manipulated to suit the mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by BienvenuJDC
There is this continuous statement of salvation/and god saving mankind.
If God took time and effort to put us human on this earth why would he then want to save us?
Out of date poetry.
You'd have to explain the manner in which you think that they are manipulated. It seems that you already of a chip on your shoulder concerning males, so maybe you don't like the patriarchal system which is demonstrated. If that's the case, then you should be rejecting all historical accounts. As far as saving mankind goes, you need to understand that the physical world is merely a temporary measure toward a permanent spiritual setting. The saving is of a spiritual nature.Quote:
Originally Posted by cacian
If there were a god, and if that god was the ultimate authority, then why fool around with the whole son from a virgin mother sacrifice thing? This ultimate authority could instead just wave his hand over the world and proclaim that all is cool in the land.Quote:
Originally Posted by BienvenuJDC
Ah...but there's the problem. With God, He must be true to His character. There must be judgment for those things that are wrong. He sent His Son, who was without sin, to take the punishment for sin. Christ is only the Son in respects to being the heir to the throne. There are many layers in a complex plan, one should only take a layer at a time. As far as the virgin part goes, Mary was a virgin who had a baby. This was to be proof that Christ's birth was of divine nature. It was merely a sign. The Catholic church has made the virgin into a god of their own. She was never meant to be more than a means to make God into a man.Quote:
Originally Posted by MattG
Why? How does that absolve anyone else of their deeds?Quote:
Originally Posted by BienvenuJDC
I have no chip against any man actually, I much prefer them to women I have you to know.Quote:
Originally Posted by BienvenuJDC
The Bible you cannot deny is patriarchal which I dislike not because it is male orientated, but it is one sided.
I would have said the same if it was women sided only.
I dislike the word father used in a religious context for the reason I stated above.
I also dislike the father that God is refered as a man only.
I would have prefered if God was refered as both because that for me is FAIR.
I do not believe Jesus was cricified in the same way that he is said to have died for our sins.
I most dilike the fact that I am told that he was resurected.
I have not seen any of these'subfacts' and therefore I cannot possibly believe in them.
I cannot possibly understand that some of us do believe in these 'madeup 'stories.
I also cringe to think that Mary was avirign and had Jesus as a son and God is refered to as the father this is almost sick it churns my stomach.
There is almost a feeling of 'contextualised institutionalisedIncest' that is abherent to bear.
This how I feel and of course I respect and admire your beliefs and you are to think differently from me.
I am a reader and therefore I stand the right to critique the bible as I see fit and this what I am doing.
You do have a chip, or else you wouldn't have posted MALe pointed to males as being bad. No point in denying it now. You must also have a predetermination that there is no supernatural. If that is the case, then you can believe what you want. It seems that you don't have as much problem with the Bible as you do people believing in the Bible. So be it... There are believers in this world, and you're just going to have to accept that.
Ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by BienvenuJDC
I am not denying anything.
I am not saying that man are bad . These are not my word.
I am pointing out what I noticed in the word MALE.
This word is latin derivative and I could not help but notice its other meaning in French
I speak French, in the same way that the word SALE means dirty in French.
These are facts.
They mean other things in French.
I could also point that BIENVENUe means welcome in French.
Does that mean I am welcoming you?
No. I am just pointing it out.
I believe what I want in the same way that you do.
By telling you what the word mean I am actually drawing your attention to what it means to others in another language.
This surely is a good thing and not a bad one.
As a substitute. The entire sacrificial system of the Old Testament was God teaching and preparing his people. Teaching them that sin required death, a payment in blood. Teaching them that a substitution is permitted so that God can punish sin with justice and yet forgive his people in mercy.Quote:
Originally Posted by MattG
If your work had a strict set of rules they would require behavior A from you and prescribe punishment B in case of failure. Christ, as a Substitute, provided the required behavior (sinlessness) and did so in our place. Christ, as a substitute, endured the prescribed punishment (hell) and did so in our place. God the Father was pleased, indeed, the author of this plan.
That is a great explanation, but I wonder if it will be accepted here.Quote:
Originally Posted by togre
I was taught philosophy from Grade Two - before the end of the year I was kicked out of Sunday School for asking too many questions (well they put the word on my Mum not to bring me because I was too disruptive). She was angry with them and me because she looked forward to her few hours break which had suddenly vanished. But then she foisted me on Grandma - same thing happened, and I went through all the Aunts and Uncles until everyone finally gave up. (I was given a bike to amuse myself with, but I think they really hoped I'd have an accident)
I actually enjoyed Sunday School, at least what I remember of it - perhaps it was because it was rare compared to normal school which was every day, but Pete, Robert, Bruce, and Martin I just wasn't allowed to see anymore (even out of Sunday School) which I didn't think was fair.
I've thought of going back to finish my education, but I think I might be a bit too old now.
I know what you are saying. You don't get what I am saying. The bible is not a book of things to know. It is a book of things to believe or disbelieve. You disbelieve. The only other thing you can do with the bible is believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by cacian
You can learn the difference between what you believe, what you disbelieve, and what you know. You might be confusing the three.
You mean Greek mythology reminds you of the stories, assuming you're talking about the Old-Testament writings, the large majority of which antedate Homer and Hesiod. If you're talking about the New-Testament writings, then I don't see the parity. I love both, but they have very different tenors.Quote:
Originally Posted by cacian
That's great. :) I wish I was the same. Grade two's kind of early though. What sort of philosophy would you learn at that age?Quote:
Originally Posted by MystyrMystyry
If I have kids - doubtful - I'm going to get them started on classical logic as soon as they're ready, probably around the age of twelve. Logic, it seems to me, is propaedeutic to philosophy generally.