Steve Jobs nominated for iMessiah!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OquCnve4J7...-jobs-ipad.jpg

In a stunning move, Apple devotees announced plans to nominate Steve Jobs for iMessiah. iTechies and iNerds everywhere rejoiced in the news, and showered each other with Slurpees and Mountain Dew in their parents’ basements. The fact that Steve Jobs is dead has done little to diminish their fervor in his candidacy, and in fact plays into their campaign strategy of resurrecting him at the next Consumer Electronics Show. “It’ll be awesome,” said Stayman Winesap, a long-time Jobs disciple. “He’ll pop out of an iPhone and introduce himself as the only iMessiah who can deliver us from Microsoft and lead us to the promised iLand.”

I don't get the Microsoft vs. Apple war. Frankly, I think it's the height of childishness when one decides to take up the mantle for one giant money making corporation and belittle another giant money making corporation. When it becomes a true animosity against people just because they use a certain computer, it's just ridiculous.

And, incidentally, it seems, 90% of the time, it's Microsoft users bashing Apple users.

I think it's because even nerds need heroes MM. And Steve was lot more agreeable than Bill. The software and hardware of Apple was delivered more professionally with consistently fewer bugs and rarely needing patches before it was functional. In the hardware aspect there was a distinctly 'civilised' touch (even though my personal preference is for muscle computing, and hang the duco). Sort of brawny Herakles for Sparta and brainy Theseus for Athens, which with hindsight both have their merits and neither was a total failure in the other's specialty.

Some people like the simple slim design of Bang and Olufsson stereos, others want seventy band graphic equalizers, volume knobs that go up to 11 and a speaker bank that would do a Marshall stack proud - an imposing monument to technology in their own living room (like me - Tchaikovsky just doesn't seem real unless I can tweak the levels and heighten the tubas, kettledrums and cannons. (Though I don't have a system quite like that at present, I've never said 'never again' - I sold up for travelling reasons)

But having said this it's still a matter only of how good your ears are naturally, because the knob twiddling means nothing once your hearing's re-adjusted to the new settings (about 3 to 5 seconds). Likewise the Apple-Microsnot (apparent) war - it's as inconsequential as Celtics vs Glasgow - but to see or read Pirates of Silicon Valley lends a perspective of how the (combined?) rivalry has shaped personal computing for the better.

Wether you're an iphone afficionado or not, you have to accept that prior to its introduction smartphones were limited in functionality to what the telcos would let us have, but Jobs kicked the applecart (NPI) into the air with the defiant cry: 'It's time WE told them what WE want a phone to be!'

Milestones often get overlooked in the annals of history, but the fact is WE all owe Apple and SJ a lot of thanks for giving us options unthinkable only a few years ago.

Someone suggested that if the Internet was an Apple product that MS had no part in it would be a lot saner but an incredibly boring place to be - and I agree: a team of wizards in a cave may arrive at a lot of spells over time, but an open world full of everyone giving their input and ideas will come up with far more far faster even if some are not so good.

Apple aren't the enemy, they're a necessity.


(Actually as a footnote when Jobs was working on the Mac he essentially divided the company in two in order that there would be an internal rivalry between the sides to encourage internal creativity and quality, and maintained this throughout - amazing foresight!)

I use a MacBook Pro as my computer. I've had it for a year after using PCs all my life, and I'll never go back to a PC. I've had no major problems with my Mac. I use an iPhone. I get someone having preferences for one product over another. I, too, like good speakers. I don't have a huge speaker system, just a small Bose set, but it sounds good. I don't understand someone who wants to listen to music horribly tuned on crappy speakers, but I don't get mad--I shrug my shoulder and say "whatever," and move on.

I probably would too if they made them gruntier, or at least allowed greater customisation. There's already an over-abundance of ace software to choose from so that's not really an issue (except for gaming!), and an aura that pc's don't possess.

Rolls Royce vs omnipresent VW Beetle - put me down for the Roller.

As for speakers the advent of mp3 players and decent earbuds have put an end to the need for shaking the neighborhood in the process of hearing something at the volume you like (for some reason I'm thinking of Mr Spock on the bus when they travelled back to the 80's)

Actually those 90% you cited - are they the same 90% that rail against just about anything and/or everything?

Probably.

I got thinking about the Mac phenomenon while I was shaving, and it occurs to me that the original reason Jobs may have split the company was to not fall into the PR disaster Coke did when they went all out with New Coke. They hadn't even considered that the majority mightn't be interested in a flavour change - just arrogant 'We're Coke and were telling you what you like!'

Well, people at least knew what Pepsi tasted like and though at the time it may have always been second choice, suddenly sales skyrocketed (though only in preference).

Jobs would have thought that The Apple II has loyalty and brand appeal - just because we like the mouse and icon OS doesn't mean everyone automatically will, a lot of potential customers having just bought an otherwise superceded model, he didn't want to leave them out. Which also seems to be the reason for the S model iphones: so those who had just bought the 3 of 4 don't feel totally ripped off by being tied to a two year contract before they can upgrade.

But thanks Steve for allowing us to surf the real web (and not that WAP nonsense) anywhere, anytime!

Off topic, but I did not link the word "Bose" in the post above. Weird.

If you hold your mouse over the link, it says that it was put there by VigiLink. Sh*t!!! Ad garbage is going to infest our very posts now?!? Ugh...

Probably has to do with licensing agreement with vBulletin. (someone has to pay for this somehow, I guess)

I remember being impressed the first time I encountered Bose equipment. However, walking by the Bose store in an outlet mall recently, I was struck by how overpriced the stuff was. There's plenty of better options out there.

Bose is an awful choice.

The way Jobs was portrayed in the mainstream media in the days following his death you'd think he was the messiah. Completely ignored was the fact that he outsourced jobs to China, where Apple products could be manufactured in sweat-shop or near-sweat-shop conditions, including the use of child labour, thus helping to take the company into the realm of mega-profits. He epitomizes to me the best and the worst of American industry.

Ah but that would change everything, and one of the features of globalisation is contract bidding - who can manufacture the product or part for the lowest possible price. You may say they should have become Apple emloyees and been paid an award wage, but here it is simply (you can google the maths because I'm busy): iphone built in China $600, iphone built in USA $14,000, iphone built in China for American award wage $600,000

I know which one I'd prefer.

Modern economics is incredible - literally!


I don't know anything about that linked brand, and I'm not about to find out...

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Originally Posted by billl

I remember being impressed the first time I encountered Bose equipment. However, walking by the Bose store in an outlet mall recently, I was struck by how overpriced the stuff was. There's plenty of better options out there.

Bose is an awful choice.

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Haha, now that's an advert!

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Originally Posted by billl

I remember being impressed the first time I encountered Bose equipment. However, walking by the Bose store in an outlet mall recently, I was struck by how overpriced the stuff was. There's plenty of better options out there.

Bose is an awful choice.

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I disagree. They make really good stuff, and it lasts.

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Originally Posted by Darcy88

The way Jobs was portrayed in the mainstream media in the days following his death you'd think he was the messiah. Completely ignored was the fact that he outsourced jobs to China, where Apple products could be manufactured in sweat-shop or near-sweat-shop conditions, including the use of child labour, thus helping to take the company into the realm of mega-profits. He epitomizes to me the best and the worst of American industry.

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The media does this with everyone.

Steve Jobs RIP, but as far as the hero worship goes, I have little time for it. Both he and Bill Gates were difficult to work with, egomaniacal and rude, but having power and money absolves all. I have seen quite a bit of film showing Gates berating employees in front of others in a humiliating way.

I also found the employee rallys to be a bit grotesque (looked like scenes from 1984) with the employees clapping feverishly with crazy grins. The fact that he created rivalry within the company (keep 'um insecure and competing with themselves breeding higher production is hardly genius) would not make him a pioneer. Many leaders used and use that technique and it's one of the environements that any successful dictator has to create. I realise, of couse, he was elected in his position.

I do always get a kick out of people cheering and going nuts when he shows everyone the new iPhone or whatever. Makes me think of this.

I didn't even know who Steve Jobs was till he died and somebody told me. An iMessiah? What tosh. You mean we should immortalize giant heads of corporations for technologies that both improve and destroy lives? I just don't get it.

Well, exploitation is sort of just the way the world has always worked, and without it we'd still be swinging in trees to escape scary things (yes, I'm aware that it would be a wonderful place if there were no leaders and followers, no wars, no bullies, no weapons - but people will always find something to complain about).

Do you like coffee and tea? Chocolate? There's three of the main vitamins whose industry depends on kidnapped child slave labour - and if you don't like it, stop buying.

We're all guilty in the sense that we all benefit from the trade, but you have to think how much worse their lives could be - at least as slaves they're probably being fed, and in Africa they could easily be roped into someone's army to go kill and maim others, or into some rapey pervert chief's harem, or tortured for a sick dictators amusement...


Steve Jobs wasn't that bad comparatively (and never touched coffee after a childhood taste - and perhaps mouth burn - put him off for life)

The real problem is that the Dragon doesn't have a unified law system, or workers rights etc)

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Originally Posted by billl

I remember being impressed the first time I encountered Bose equipment. However, walking by the Bose store in an outlet mall recently, I was struck by how overpriced the stuff was. There's plenty of better options out there.

Bose is an awful choice.

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Bose made my never-buy list when they sued Consumer Reports for not being impressed with some of their equipment.

As far as Gates vs. Jobs goes, I think the difference is charisma. Both Gates and Jobs pretty openly treated their customers with contempt, but Gates' customers hate him for it, while Jobs' customers love him for it.

Let me say that I only half meant to criticize the company's products--I do think the stuff is overpriced, and that with a little looking around and so on (so easy in this day and age) one could probably often do better, especially for the price. That being said, I mostly wanted to screw with the spam (as Juniper noticed), and if I was ever gifted some equipment from said company, I'd be pretty happy about it.

I hadn't heard about the Consumer Reports incident...

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Originally Posted by Delta40

I didn't even know who Steve Jobs was till he died and somebody told me. An iMessiah? What tosh. You mean we should immortalize giant heads of corporations for technologies that both improve and destroy lives? I just don't get it.

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I agree completely, the hero-worship of a corporation really bothers me. It's not just because they're geeks! Geeks have other options for heroes (I go with Maddox, Penn and Teller, Matt Stone and Trey Parker, and various fictional characters from video games/television/movies/comics). I think that people react to brands the way that they do because we're still overly susceptible to the adverts that paint technologies (which in this particular case is basically an oversized cell phone without the ability to make phone calls) as the next "great revolutionary human invention." Everyone wants to witness big human advancement. The inspirational music and "smart" minimalistic commercials blind us so that we don't recognize iCrap for what it is - a hodge-podge of previous inventions. I remember when my chem teacher first asked what an iPad was, and when the students answered him he asked "so how is that any different from a blackberry?" I think that we'll all start recognizing the BS soon enough.

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Originally Posted by Calidore

As far as Gates vs. Jobs goes, I think the difference is charisma. Both Gates and Jobs pretty openly treated their customers with contempt, but Gates' customers hate him for it, while Jobs' customers love him for it.

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Apparently Gates is a much more likeable person though, Jobs was apparently a total douche to work for, and he even tried to avoid taking responsibility for a child he fathered for several years. Gates, on the other hand, has been one of the most generous philanthropist of our era.

Perhaps only to atone for his sins?

I think Jobs behaved the way he did is due to being a disacociative owing to a screwy childhood - the sort that often produces psychopaths, in fact. And avoiding parental responsibility is usually generational learning. The dad runs away, so does the kid, on, on, on...

I'm not his apologist (nor any deadbeat's) - I'm trying to put his consistent forging ahead into perspective.

As for being the boss from Hell, he was surrounded by sycophants within the company, proud to call themselves Apple employees - qualified computer scientists and techies all, they could have emptied their desks any time they wanted to and fled to MS or anywhere else, but they didn't, and they also understood where Steve Jobs the Benevolent Tyrant was coming from - he demanded the impossible, and they obliged considerably less than begrudgingly because at the end of the day there would be an actual result from the hard work.

Something that hadn't actually existed before.

Taking a bunch of existing tech and not seeing the possibilities is why so many products only do the specific limited things they've always done. By the time of the Apple II there were already IBM compatible PCs virtually interchangeable with operation, function, and ability. When the Icon based operating system appeared on the Mac (even though it wasn't his idea - it was definitely his idea to use it, not Xerox's, and also Gates' idea to steal it* along with it's thunder)

But hey, icons instead of typing out tedious command lines, and a mouse for the sense of interactivity - these deserved a wider appreciative audience, and it is with this that personal computing really took off (world-wide personal computer sales didn't just hit the magic million mark, it smashed straight though it, to today when it is an absolute necessity!)

Gates and Jobs needed each other because in an important sense they were the same as each other. Before them useful personal computers weren't being designed and built by some mystical hip dudes in Taiwan or Japan, there was simply no such thing as a personal computer. Silicon Valley was where it was happening thanks to Jobs (and Gates' larger market share). Steve Jobs considered his machines and software as an artform - the nerdier Gates had no such comprehension, and that's essentially where they differ.

When a tight fisted Scotsman decided to mount a 'modern' steam engine in a wooden carriage (because it was cheaper than chaff) 150 years ago, he didn't know it would trigger the dawn of a new era, an era of mechanised warfare but also of economical food transportation, car accidents and ambulances, distance travel and insurance claims, registration fees and tarmac roads - but it was a life- and civilisation altering achievement. Now you likely don't remember his name (I know I can't, and Google's no help at all), nor of the number who followed in his example - but you remember Daimler (first petrol car, granting greater useful distances), Cadillac (first recognisable car with accelerator, clutch and brake as they still are) and Ford (do I have to? okay, he 'borrowed' the idea for mass assembly and allowed himself to take credit) for various contributions to our modern civilisation (and probably wish you could forget them), but it was a centuries old dream and endeavor to create a self-propelled vehicle.

The point of this is that before Jobs and the first Apple the ordinary consumer could have purchased a personal computer - but it was a box with bugger all memory, no OS, no screen, no keyboard, and most incredibly (though not unsurprisingly) NO SOFTWARE to run on it. He didn't want to give the world a knock-off Altair - he wanted to offer AN ACTUAL USEFUL COMPUTER.

We take for granted that a new computer will work straight out of the box, but we shouldn't, considering how frantic we become when for whatever reason they cease operating.


And on the customer contempt issue: Jobs answered most of the emailed complaints personally, because he actually wanted to know what the potential problems were, not solely because of his vested interest. On the highway robbery ipod battery issue, he said: 'It was a mistake - they were expensive to make, and I honestly didn't realise that they eventually wore out.'

*Which doesn't count because back then no computer software held copyright (he also claimed to have gotten the idea from Xerox separately, which is complete crap)

I love my Atari 800 computer! Pong Rules!

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Originally Posted by Darcy88

The way Jobs was portrayed in the mainstream media in the days following his death you'd think he was the messiah. Completely ignored was the fact that he outsourced jobs to China, where Apple products could be manufactured in sweat-shop or near-sweat-shop conditions, including the use of child labour, thus helping to take the company into the realm of mega-profits. He epitomizes to me the best and the worst of American industry.

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Do you know those factories with "sweat-shop or near-sweat-shop conditions" also make electronic products for these companies:

Acer
Amazon
Intel
Cisco
Hewlett-Packard
Dell
Nintendo
Nokia
Microsoft
Motorola
Sony Ericsson

Truth is, just about everything these days are made in China. Chances are, the computer you used to type up this comment is also made in China.

From that list of companies, Apple is the only major technology company to audit its supply chain and publish the results.

That said, Apple has returned children to their families and forced factories to pay for their education for for six months or until they reached 16. Get this, Apple is under no obligation to do that. They are just a customer, yet they went out of their way to make things right.

Being that you are so concerned about worker welfare, what have you done to help the cause? Or is Apple just a convenient target?

For those who are not familiar with Steve Jobs, he is a visionary of our time. ABC calls him an American Genius, and plenty others know him as an innovator who "connect poetry to technology":

“It's in Apple's DNA that technology alone is not enough. That it's technology married with liberal arts, married with the humanities, that yields us the result that makes our hearts sing.” – Steve Jobs, March 2, 2011

He was responsible for changing the way we interact with technology and everyone's life whether we are aware of it or not. His creations didn't just transcend technology, he revolutionized the music industry, publishing, phones, and many more areas.

His Stamford Commencement Speech is considered the Gettysburg Address in commencement speech. Give it a listen if you wish:
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/10/...eve-jobs-life/

Excerpt:

"No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don't want to die to get there. And yet death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because Death is very likely the single best invention of Life. It is Life's change agent...

Remembering that I'll be dead soon is the most important tool I've ever encountered to help me make the big choices in life. Because almost everything — all external expectations, all pride, all fear of embarrassment or failure - these things just fall away in the face of death, leaving only what is truly important. Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose. You are already naked. There is no reason not to follow your heart."
TRANSCRIPT

The iMessiah probably stems from Apple being a cult. The iPad was called the Jesus tablet before it unveiled. Apple is a cult not because of their cool factor, but for its own values, aesthetics and passion.

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Originally Posted by Haunted

Do you know those factories with "sweat-shop or near-sweat-shop conditions" also make electronic products for these companies:

Acer
Amazon
Intel
Cisco
Hewlett-Packard
Dell
Nintendo
Nokia
Microsoft
Motorola
Sony Ericsson

Truth is, just about everything these days are made in China. Chances are, the computer you used to type up this comment is also made in China.

From that list of companies, Apple is the only major technology company to audit its supply chain and publish the results.

That said, Apple has returned children to their families and forced factories to pay for their education for for six months or until they reached 16. Get this, Apple is under no obligation to do that. They are just a customer, yet they went out of their way to make things right.

Being that you are so concerned about worker welfare, what have you done to help the cause? Or is Apple just a convenient target?

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It is true that Apple had to force or use strong persuasion in order that factories return children to their families. I am happy they were forced to change and reprimanded publically.

I think this has been posted on LitNet before somewhere, but it's worth a second look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg

Being in the field of artificial intelligence and digital electronics all of my life, I got to understand the 70's and the 80's very well. I think Steve Jobs made one fatal mistake at the outset with the Apple. Anyone who knew what was going on when Bill Gates established his company with the famous Q&D operating system, also knew that Apple was the thing of the future. But what was Jobs' mistake? Well, he put all his stuff into firmware and made it prioprietary.
If you look at the original Apple computer, and know what went on at the core, it looks almost identical to the original Windows of later days. Why did Microsoft made it so big and Apple remained with a small niche in printing and education? Well, Bill Gates coppied the system, but instead of making it proprietary, he associated himself with IBM, Intel, Dell and others who had the vision of a world of programmatic growth. He conquered the world by giving the world work and more work all for the development of the IBM PC. Thus Windows became economically sustained and indispensible as IBM, while Apple remained the quality choice of the day; good stuff, but just a choice of "snobs" in the San Francisco Bay area, where Jobs decided to locate the headquarters.
But in spite of his fatal entreprenurial mistake, the composer of the original generic Windows, called Apple, was Steve Jobs. He deserves many honors. May he rest in peace.

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Originally Posted by Haunted

Do you know those factories with "sweat-shop or near-sweat-shop conditions" also make electronic products for these companies:

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So your argument is "other people do it and that makes it okay"? That's never a good position.

Now excuse me while I play DAII on my Xbox 360.

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Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

So your argument is "other people do it and that makes it okay"? That's never a good position.

Now excuse me while I play DAII on my Xbox 360.

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You are mistaken. Those are your words, not mine. I was only stating a fact, an FYI for the poster who singled out Apple — whether out of bias, self righteousness or ignorance — when pretty much every PC is made in China using the SAME factories.

Would you look at the back of that Xbox 360 of yours and tell us where it's made. Never mind, I have the answer: http://www.joystiq.com/2005/08/17/xb...made-in-china/

Enjoy your games and please leave the discussions to the adults.

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Originally Posted by Haunted

Would you look at the back of that Xbox 360 of yours and tell us where it's made. Never mind, I have the answer: http://www.joystiq.com/2005/08/17/xb...made-in-china/

Enjoy your games and please leave the discussions to the adults.

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How very humourless of you (aka: duh!). Why do you think I DELIBERATELY undermined myself by pointing out that I was playing a Microsoft product, you dolt? Consider your "this person is able to recognize an offhand jest" status hereby revoked.*

*Note: the latter sentence was intended to be what those of us who don't take ourselves seriously to the point of neuroticism call a "joke."

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Originally Posted by Haunted

You are mistaken. Those are your words, not mine. I was only stating a fact, an FYI for the poster who singled out Apple — whether out of bias, self righteousness or ignorance — when pretty much every PC is made in China using the SAME factories.

Would you look at the back of that Xbox 360 of yours and tell us where it's made. Never mind, I have the answer: http://www.joystiq.com/2005/08/17/xb...made-in-china/

Enjoy your games and please leave the discussions to the adults.

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I "singled out" Apple because the thread is about Apple and its CEO, Steve Jobs. "Ignorance, bias and self-righteousness" had nothing to do with it. Thanks for the attitude though. Much appreciated.

Just because other companies do it does not make it ok. Children returned to their parents or not, Apple still has their products manufactured under often horrendous, sweat shop or near swear shop conditions, when they could be employing Americans for a fair wage. The loss of the manufacturing base is a major concern for that nation's economy. So when I see every media report lionizing the guy, singing his praises to the heavens, I merely think it relevant to point this fact out.

Of course its not his fault. If Jobs hadn't done it he would have been fired by the Apple shareholders.

Would you prefer if I condemn all outsourcing CEOs across the board, not just Jobs? All right. Consider them hereby condemned.

As far as what I myself do... I don't gratuitously consume. I buy mostly secondhand. And if there was a computer available that was made under fair working conditions I would purchase it.

Juniper, you have my sympathy. Your problem is covered by the MB Principles for the Conduct of Internet Debate, of which these are four (of a dozen or so):



1) Never self-deprecate. People too insecure ever to do it themselves will find it impossible to believe you're not serious and will use it against you.

2) Never, under any circumstances however tempting, employ irony. Many of your correspondents, tragically, were born without irony receptors and they have no more chance of understanding you than a sardine has of coming second in the Tour de France.

3) Despite (2), never demean yourself by resorting to the use of smilies. It doesn't help really. It's the equivalent of chucking a tricycle overboard in the hope that a passing sardine will develop some vague idea of how to tackle the Mountain Stage.

4) Never make a serious point with a humorous metaphor. Po-faced people will engage you in argument about the metaphor, rather than the point.

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Originally Posted by MarkBastable

2) Never, under any circumstances however tempting, employ irony. Many of your correspondents, tragically, were born without irony receptors and they have no more chance of understanding you than a sardine has of coming second in the Tour de France.

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Losing the ability to employ irony or sarcasm in a conversation is like losing a limb. I'm with you, we need a font.

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Originally Posted by MarkBastable

Juniper, you have my sympathy. Your problem is covered by the MB Principles for the Conduct of Internet Debate, of which these are four (of a dozen or so):



1) Never self-deprecate. People too insecure ever to do it themselves will find it impossible to believe you're not serious and will use it against you.

2) Never, under any circumstances however tempting, employ irony. Many of your correspondents, tragically, were born without irony receptors and they have no more chance of understanding you than a sardine has of coming second in the Tour de France.

3) Despite (2), never demean yourself by resorting to the use of smilies. It doesn't help really. It's the equivalent of chucking a tricycle overboard in the hope that a passing sardine will develop some vague idea of how to tackle the Mountain Stage.

4) Never make a serious point with a humorous metaphor. Po-faced people will engage you in argument about the metaphor, rather than the point.

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My main problem with these is that by following them, you're lowering yourself to the lowest common denominator, rather than forcing them to raise themselves higher to keep up.

Haha, I think Haunted has been thoroughly pwned.

Unless of course Haunted was being ironic...

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This thread is now closed.

(I am sure everyone knows why so I will not waste your precious time with a long explanation.)

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