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Why does life have to be so complicated? I keep thinking that's everything's going to get better someday but that day just doesn't seem to be coming. I haven't seen a happy person for such a long time, and don't get me wrong I'm not just talking about my own life. I mean life in general. Isn't this whole thing a big, pathetic joke?
Yep. In my opinion, it seems to be a series of events that cause suffering.
But, you sound like you might be kind of young (perhaps still in your 20's). If that's the case, just wait, life gets much, much worse.
That's mostly how I see it too. Nature is full of suffering, and we're part of it. I wish we could change that and keep more of the good stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by keilj
My philosophy for the time being is to just make the best out of it and try to prevent the suffering I can prevent.
Top Tips for a Happy Life: http://www.online-literature.com/for...ad.php?t=64062
Life is what it is. If you dwell on the negative - that is what will define you; own you.
Volunteer. Learn to become a glass half full person. Hang with people who have good old fashioned wholesome fun. Get counseling. Turn off the news. Watch & read comedies that make you laugh. Smell the roses. Garden. Write about your cares (it's cathartic)... besides you've already started here; write a short story or poem or autobiography.
Best wishes,
tailor STATELY
You need to find a passion to carry you through life. Both long term goals and short term goals.
Me, I'm an artist - I've trained my brain to be one. But I'm not an artist if I don't do anything.
Before a work I get enthusiastic. During the work. After the work. Buying new materials.
Everyone else is also an artist - a lot just don't realise it because it seems easier to let someone else do it. And that may seem to be true, but from experience I know it's much less satisfying than having a project to occupy your mind - and it can be anything from rejuvinating an old piece of furniture with oils and fabrics, to writing the most amazing novel ever.
But it's up to you to do it first and talk about it later - not sit around imagining it. While you're dong it your brain develops ideas, and after you've finished your brain develops ideas for the next thing.
People who take up space and do absolutely nothing, expecting to be entertained, are miserable, selfish and boring, and deserve all the unhappiness the universe inflicts on them.
You have to generate your own happiness in which ever way you see fit though. You have to use your head and your hands. You have to feel that you've achieved something, that your time has been worthwhile and productive - this gives you the understanding and direction to ensure that your future will also.
Don't be a snail brain!
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Originally Posted by tailor STATELY
What you and others like you fail to realize is that just because you have the ability to see the bright side and are able to ignore the stark realities of suffering in this world, everyone is not built that way. And reading "tops tips" will not cause someone with deep conscience to be able to ignore the darkness in this world.
Behind every silver lining, there's a dark cloud - George Carlin
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Originally Posted by MystyrMystyry
This post has to be pure satire. There's no way you can actually be an adult and think this way
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Originally Posted by tailor STATELY
here's some more realistic advice - rather than that "glass half full" rot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2Q7YRDL90E
at least this clip reflects a realistic understanding of the truths of this world
I think the ability to think that way makes one an adult. It's a mistake to try to spin the lack of a skill as a positive.Quote:
Originally Posted by keilj
Ah, yes. There you are with your conscience, and if people happier than you had such a conscience they'd be less able to ignore the darkness, and so they'd be less happy. Those happy, conscienceless nitwits.Quote:
Originally Posted by keilj
If that's a fair way to characterise other human beings as an explanation of their tendency to see a bright side, then it would be equally fair to suggest that those who tend to see the dark side are actually self-important melodramatic scaredy-cats. Not, of course, that any sensible and kind person would make that kind of generalisation, any more than any kind and sensible person would write off happier people with phrases like 'what you fail to realise' and 'ignore the stark realities of suffering'. Either dismissal of vast swathes of humanity would be simplistic and childish.
The darkness of the world can't be helped. You have to find your own happiness without dwelling on the negatives.
When you use your mind to create something worthwhile (an experience for others also to enjoy), then you're doing something which is infinitely better than doing nothing, though this depends - if you're a snail brain washing dishes for a living of course you're going to hate life (fairly quickly I imagine). But if you 'make your own luck' and get the best job in the world where you're surrounded by interesting, exciting, and enthusiastic people with similar passions, then that's how to use your brain to generate happiness.
Hang out with the deadbeats if you think somewhere in the suffocating miasma of their nothingness you'll get to a position of as close to complete happiness you could wish for.
Who doesn't want to crack the joke that makes everyone laugh? Misery guts doesn't - and who cares about Misery guts? Not me - life's too short!
"Behind every silver lining, there's a dark cloud - George Carlin"
dark (for nightshifft)
all is not bunnies
and sunshine and puppies
and rainbows and kisses
and vistas bright
nor angel's wings
hugging one tight
sometimes it's dark
damn, it's dark
sometimes
dark
1/12/2010
tailor STATELY
I've been there and done that with what you portray as your sensibilities.
I've moved on and have tried to make a difference for the good in this wonderful world and life.
I repeat: Life is what it is. If you dwell on the negative - that is what will define you; own you.
Leaving this thread for brighter pastures.
Ta ! (short for tarradiddle),
tailor STATELY
It's a misconception to think that age makes you unhappy - the dribbly end bit does- but up to that point you may find yourself happier than when you were younger. Certainly I'd rather be older than a teen/ twenties.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...cientists.html
As someone with a rather debilitating disability, and someone whose had cancer several times, I feel sorry for you, keilj.
Meh, I am having a good time.
Top Tips makes me laugh, and what makes you think that being peed off about anything makes it any better?Quote:
Originally Posted by keilj
If it can be changed - change it. If it can't - do what you can. Neither of which requires miserableness.
Whatever makes you feel betterQuote:
Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandi
My premise must bother you, that you have to try to distort it instead of engaging itQuote:
Originally Posted by MarkBastable
If you have an original idea that you want to express - then do so. Instead of trying to misrepresent what I said by adding your own colorful language to it
If you and others in this thread want to mistake being a realist with being some kind of sulking curmudgeon, then feel free. If you want to engage in an intelligent conversation about the basis for people's happiness, what true happiness is built on, and, perhaps, how people cope with the unhappy things in this world, then maybe this Internet thread might become more interesting
In a world where alcoholism and dependence on psych drugs is quite high (see the recent study about "happiness" in European countries), I think it is extremely condescending and petulant to characterize people as "sitting around doing nothing". The world and the people in it are a little more complicated than thatQuote:
Originally Posted by MystyrMystyry
It seems that all of these "happy" people have very little empathy
here's a link to the study
http://www.fyiliving.com/mental-heal...-of-europeans/
I was surprised by it because I had always assumed that Europeans were generally happier than Americas. I had heard how some nations like Italy and Spain have a laid-back attitudes, 4-day work weeks.
Quite right. It is as simple as that.
You offer advice to a junkie and it falls on deaf ears - thus you've wasted your breath which would have been put to better use elsewhere.
You try to give them an actual hand up and they'll respond by trying to take advantage of your sympathy, kindness, time, and whatever else. You have to actually meet and attempt to help these people to learn first hand that their innate idiocy and self-centredness (albeit the result of their ingested poisons or elsewise) will earn not even genuine thanks.
Their so-called 'suffering' comes not from the anaeshetic qualities of their chosen drugs, but the lack thereof. Basically you can't help someone who isn't prepared to help themselves, and though a rare few have given themselves the time to try, it doesn't mean it's worth the effort for the vast majority.
No drug is so addictive it can't be overcome, but these 'people' are just using drugs as a crutch to avoid taking responsibility for their own actions. The day they decide to do so is the day they can start living - it's not my job to help them. I can only wish they wake up, but that's as far as my involvement will ever go. You can waste you time trying if you want, but their problems are not actually the fault of anyone else (other than the enablers obviously).
There's a Yiddish proverb:
The fool sees happiness in the distance, the wise it grows beneath their feet.
These fools see happiness only in the next vial, bottle, syringe, baggy, whatever, and have chosen to shortcircuit their neurons to diminish both a future and immediate happiness.
Life's a gift, and wasted only on the wasters.
Do I care about the reason for their stupidity? Not in the least! It's entirely their fault.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tailor STATELY
Well, yeah I feel awesome after reading a good book or watching a nice movie but so what? Is that what life is all about? laughing at jokes and keeping yourself busy so you don't see all the craziness?
[thanks for your advice. I took a long walk in the beautiful autumn weather today. Didn't change my mind about life in general but it was good (: ]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MystyrMystyry
Actually I've achieved a lot in my life. I've been the best in almost everything I did. You might be 'older' than I am but you're where I used to be 4 years ago. It's not about productiveness really... after a while you get used to it all and then you want to achieve bigger and bigger things. One day when you've made enough achievements you'd realize that everything is just so pointless...
and about your last post:
I appreciate your time and effort. I don't think you're any different from the people you're insulting... You think you're so right that you've closed your ears to what everyone else is saying.
[and what's wrong with being a dishwasher? I assume you're one of those people who think power's got to do everything with happiness.]
So, you're a nihilist.Quote:
Originally Posted by sh_einstein
Why would it make me feel better to feel sorry for you? What's that supposed to mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by keilj
Life is what you make of it. I, too, am a realist, but that doesn't mean I can't find enjoyment every once in a while. If you can't, it's your problem. Do something about it, aside from moaning and being condescending to those who don't share your world view.
Actually, there is something else that goes along with the sympathy I feel for eternal pessimists, and that's anger. I have friends like you, always complaining about how unfair the world is. Get over it. You may not have a lot, but you surely have a lot more than many. Your ability to moan and act like a petulant child is proof enough that you do.
I also like how you seem to be justifying your pessimism by trying to show how happy people are somehow deluded. Not only do you want to be miserable, you want to drag others down with you.
I share similar thoughts but have some different conclusions.Quote:
Originally Posted by sh_einstein
Pursuing goals and chasing after achievements can help people from falling into the cracks of social deviancy. Sure it might be shallow, but it is better than committing a crime, accidental pregnancy or being a victim in a situation you shouldn't have been in.
Most of the planet is poor. Most of the planet is poorly educated. Individually we all make the decision, "How will my life be remembered?" Someone might be the "dishwasher" that made money for their children to chase silly dreams. Others might be the family businessman that helped his child be the only one to experience owning an exotic car. Or the adult who doesn't want his children to experience not growing up with a single parent.
The point I am building up is that people have tough experiences and they don't want certain people wife/child/friend to go through those things. And lots of people have made mistakes and suffered hardship. The whole life is pointless attitude doesn't improve the situation. Life is full of tragedy and few people know how to work their way out of it. At best a person's know how to prevent a specific tragedy from happening to someone else.
Everyone knows that its pointless. But that alone doesn't give you a reason to stop enjoying what you enjoy.
Other things that everyone knows is that eventually they're going to die. You know you're going to, I know I'm going to - preferably a long way away and when I'm not around - but the fact is that all you touch, see, think, feel, etc etc is all it will ever be.
The actual sense perception of humans is quite narrow - only as far as our finger tips, and as bright as we are to the light, and as loud as we can hear. And thus we extend our range by sharing stories with others who have seen and done more and different. Not the stories of those who have done less and nothing - where's the interest value in that?
For every druggy and alcoholic, there are a hundred people brighter, louder and more fascinating - real people who inspire you to generate and use your own energy. If you want miserable people they're in every bar in the world, some hide away in their own nests, some get deservedly arrested - but there isn't a fun one amongst them, not really. There may be famous ones like Lindsay and the now defunct Amy, but they're not fun intriguing people - just noongs in the spotlight, whom if they used their noggins could have by now achieved twenty great movies and twenty great albums instead of no great movies and only one great album.
The effects of these drugs are, to put it bluntly, the same as braining yourself. It'd be far cheaper and more interesting to approach Mike Tyson and start calling him names. You'd achieve the same result but at least you could say you'd been biffed by the best - and with the scars to prove it!
But most choose to biff themselves the slow, boring and expensive way. Why? Is life honestly that bad? No - in a word - they're dickheads.
There I've said it. Lindsay Lohan is a dickhead. Amy Winehouse was a dickhead.
Are you surprised at this news?
I'm afraid I resent the attitudes presented here treating people who have drug addictions like they are living less valuable lives. They have families, values, emotions, and experiences just like any other human being.
I agree. Drug addicts may not be deserving of the Nobel Prize, but they're still people. I know plenty of fun, fascinating people who do recreational drugs and drink, also, so it kind of ruins your broad generalization, MM. I know of plenty of people who don't do drugs who are complete losers and/or dickheads.Quote:
Originally Posted by OrphanPip
You posted before you read my post, didn't you Pip?
Actually it was the lowest of the low I was referring to MM. I've met them, and wasted my time with them.
I've also shared doobies and Scotches with lawyers, politicians, medical students, and many others, and had a ball at the time. Recreational use isn't the same as junkie use.
Gotchya. Still, even the lowest of the low shouldn't be discarded completely.Quote:
Originally Posted by MystyrMystyry
It seems drug addicts must always become the focus, and everyone has to get accountable in terms of empathy and support for them. There's no drug addicts or alcoholics here, so why talk about them? I find them boring.
It almost seems like someone with a rather debilitating disability, and someone whose had cancer several times, who is happy and not an addict - is less valuable than a drug addict.
I too struggle. In the last few months I've had terrible insomnia, and so I have moments of discouragement. But I never really have depression. I see a kind of magic in life.
Last February I caught a bug and was very sick for a while. I don't remember when before I was so sick and miserable. But in the middle of all of that, I remember having the realization of magic in life. I remember thinking how strange it was that I could have the two experiences going on at the same time - feeling miserable and feeling a sense of magic. But that's often how it is for me... And then when I got well again, it was so wonderful just not to be sick.
I think one of the problems with people today, is that they're spoiled - they have so much that they can't appreciate anything.
It is the simplest things in life that make for happiness, and those things people today are entirely incapable of appreciating or even noticing.
So, if I ridicule it, I must agree with it? How would I act then, if I wanted to ridicule it because I disagreed with it?Quote:
Originally Posted by keilj
And I don't think I misrepresented it at all. I simply rendered this...
What you and others like you fail to realize is that just because you have the ability to see the bright side and are able to ignore the stark realities of suffering in this world, everyone is not built that way. And reading "tops tips" will not cause someone with deep conscience to be able to ignore the darkness in this world. .
...like this...
There you are with your conscience, and if people happier than you had such a conscience they'd be less able to ignore the darkness, and so they'd be less happy. Those happy, conscienceless nitwits.
...which I think is a pretty fair - if slightly sarky - rendition of your proposition, to be honest.
Gee, thanks. But I'm not suggesting that realists are sulking curmudgeons. I'm suggesting that you're not a realist.Quote:
Originally Posted by keilj
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vonny
hmm... some good points there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vonny
As soon as I see the words 'people today', I have to ask for some kind of evidence that whatever it is that 'people today' are doing or feeling* was done or felt differently by 'people yesterday'.
Also, how much longer ago are we talking? Literally yesterday? When the speaker was a child? Before the Industrial Revolution? And how do we measure the difference between 'people today' and other people? And even if we can come up with both a timeframe of comparison and a scale by which to measure change, how do we assess whether the difference is a Good Thing or a Bad Thing?
Actually, we don't have to the last bit, because the premise of any sentence that involves 'people today' is that whatever they are doing is a Worse Thing than what people yesterday did.
But if we look at the proposition again...
...it can't be entirely true, because if it were true of the poster, she wouldn't know it was. So she, at least, is not spoiled, and is not entirely incapable of appreciating and noticing that the simplest things make for happiness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vonny
And if it's not true of Vonny, maybe it's not true of a lot of other 'people today' either.
So the last question we need to ask is, who do we mean by 'people today'.
* ...or, as is usually the case when that phrase is used, not doing or not feeling
Okay, maybe I said this wrong. The problem with some people now, and it was no doubt the problem with some people long ago, is that they are spoiled and incapable of appreciating the things that make for happiness. Obviously, there are many people today on this forum who don't have this problem of being unable to appreciate.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkBastable
What I'm actually thinking about when I compare people today with past people, is the people of about the 1860s - 1880s, the American pioneers. I've studied them a lot, and so they are, unconsciously, sort of the basis of a lot of my thinking. There's a series of children's books that I read a lot, and you English have never heard of them, I'm sure, but if you had ever read the Little House books by Laura Ingalls Wilder, you'd understand what I'm talking about. And I learned from studying her, that her life was much more spartan and difficult, and included even more loss, than the children's books depicted, yet she was very happy.
But believe me, there's tons of evidence that the pioneers were happy with much less than people have today. (Generally speaking, although there are characters in Laura's books who were spoiled and unappreciative, so those have always been around.)
As you say, there are spoiled and unappreciative people in the fiction - and the little girl whose parents run the store represents that (at least she does in the TV version).Quote:
Originally Posted by Vonny
So all this tells us is that however much or little stimulus there is - in terms of possessions, environment and so on - the available range of human response, from happiness to misery, is pretty constant. So the 'people today' thing doesn't really apply. It's nothing to do with 'today'.
Happiness is just an emotion, but it's often talked about as though it were something tangible that everyoneone must aquire or else their lives would have been in vain. Oh, and it's our responsabilty to be happy you know, it's up to us to look on the bright side EVERY SECOND OF THE DAY. Smell the roses! Dance in the sunshine! Blah blah blah. It's too stressful, trying to be happy all the bloody time.Quote:
Originally Posted by sh_einstein
Happiness comes, it goes, it's an emotion just like fear or anger and they're all equally important and a part of life. Some people experience "happiness" more frequently than others and reach a general level of serentiy (or whatever), but I still don't think that serentiy is that important because it's boring. No one wants to read a book about someone who's "serene," without any heart-thumping challenges to overcome.
I've been thinking about what to aim for in life if not an intangible emotion, and I've decided that it would be a good idea to aim for a wide range of experiences. While having those experiences I feel happiness, as well as the rest of the emotional spectrum, occasionally but never permanently because emotions are like water.
Complaining all the time is of no use, and feeling sad is of no use either, the problem being that it's hard for some people to avoid it. People differ, some are prone to depression, others prone to happiness.
Some of the 'be more happy' comments here seem to preach escapism and 'look away', I don't think that's necessarily a good strategy either.
The way I cope is by accepting that this world is the product of evolution, a blind, indifferent process that created a lot of suffering. Then, I figure out how to make the best of it.
You sound lonely.Quote:
Originally Posted by sh_einstein
For the psychologically normal characters out there: the essence of suffering is not censure or poverty, infamy or ingloriousness, it is neither deepest humiliation nor greatest failure. In short, it is rejection from those around you. And the essence of happiness is not flattery or wealth, fame or glory, or highest success, or some attitude which we consciously select. It is friendship. I am reminded of Shakespeare's Sonnet 66:
Tired with all these, for restful death I cry,
As, to behold desert a beggar born,
And needy nothing trimm'd in jollity,
And purest faith unhappily forsworn,
And guilded honour shamefully misplaced,
And maiden virtue rudely strumpeted,
And right perfection wrongfully disgraced,
And strength by limping sway disabled,
And art made tongue-tied by authority,
And folly doctor-like controlling skill,
And simple truth miscall'd simplicity,
And captive good attending captain ill:
Tired with all these, from these would I be gone,
Save that, to die, I leave my love alone.
If you are indeed lonely, and if you want to be happy, you need to find comfort sharing yourself with people.
Actually it isn't useless to be sad. Some of the greatest works of art and scientific breakthroughs in history have been accomplished only after a period of great suffering. Suffering also builds character. Ever met someone who has had a lifetime of nothing but candy and joy? Dull as dishwater.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodo25
Oh you've seen that TV show. That show, so I've heard, bears no resemblance to the books. Whoever made the show should have been sued. Some of the characters and places have the same names - that is the only consistency between the two. (Well, I think Mary went blind in the show, but still it was all such a distortion.) If they had made the books into a show, no one would watch, because it would have been sooo boring! The books have a substance that could not be translated into a show. There is so much suffering in the books, yet there is such appreciation for the little things.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkBastable
There are many differences in people today and people then. Back in those days people got diphtheria and there was no treatment. Shortly after Laura married, she and her husband both got diphtheria. Almanzo insisted on getting up to work before he was completely recovered and he had a stroke! For the rest of his life he dragged one of his feet. Laura made the comment that you never appreciate two good feet until you've lost them.
Back in those days, people regularly buried their children. That gave them a different mindset. Illness and death were always imminent. Women accepted that they would really suffer in childbirth, and they knew that they could die in childbirth. These realities affected people's thinking and their priorities. And yes, women have always loved clothes and things like that, but women took a lot of pride in making their own dresses and they shared their skills with one another.
If you read the Little House books and journals of the pioneer women who came West, you are absolutely stunned by the difference in people then and today. But one difference - which I don't know if it is good or bad - is that the pioneers believed wholeheartedly in the bible, and this gave them more of an acceptance of their hardships and provided some peace.
Laura realized that South Dakota where she had spent her teenage years was a miserable place and that much of her life wasn't good there, yet she never said: "Life Sucks." It spurred her to get a better life in Missouri, which still involved some very hard work and discomfort, but she appreciated everything she had as an adult.
Cunninglinguist I like your post. I've had trouble interpreting the Sonnets, but I get that.
What the **** is that supposed to mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vonny
"Remember to appreciate each and every little thing, because there are always people with less than you" ... That type of moralizing makes me sick.
Materially, yes. But emotional fulfillment is subjective. No one likes hearing someone whine about their unhappiness constantly, but it's equally obnoxious to tell someone else they should be happy.
This conversation brings Maslow's hierarchy into mind.
Another thing that bothers me – I am not sure how to express it but it seems to me that people are always suggesting that other people need to live. For example: "I'm starting to feel depressed again and it scares me" or "My life feels meaningless. I wish I were dead sometimes and it really frightens me. What should I do?"
People label depression or suicidal ideation as something inherently wrong that must be gotten rid of. What's wrong with it? Notice it and accept it. If you want it to pass, then you ultimately want to live and it's possible to create a more meaningful life if you work at it. If you really wish you were dead do whatever you wish. No one forces you to live. The fear is pointless.
Life can be hard yes, partially due to ours being an overpopulated species generally all living under the consent of our owners rather then ourselves (some exceptions do apply, with risk). I struggle with extreme states, I can get incredibly down. BUT the truth is it's a beautiful planet and under all the concrete and fake grass there is something to be said about the magic this place offers.
This is fiction. It might tell you something about how life works, at a sort of attitudinal level - but it's not circumstantially true. So I wouldn't get too interested in Almanzo's fortitude, if I were you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vonny
Yep - that's what 'people today' lack. A book that suggests they should be happy despite high perinatal mortality rates.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vonny
That's all quie easy to say, especially for a 13 year old who surely has plenty of perspective. :rolleyes5:Quote:
Originally Posted by cl154576