God and all about him is a lie. If He exists, the world doesn't; and if the world doesn't exist, then He doesn't. He is quite impossible. This is a theory at any rate. I care little for myself, it's others that worry me.
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God and all about him is a lie. If He exists, the world doesn't; and if the world doesn't exist, then He doesn't. He is quite impossible. This is a theory at any rate. I care little for myself, it's others that worry me.
God is the beginning
God is the End.
You can hear him
In the chirp of sparrows;
You can hear him talk
In the silence of the desert;
You can find Him everywhere
Only IF you knew
Only IF your could hear
Only IF you could see
Only IF you could realize
Only IF you believed
That there is something more
Than YOU knew
That there is something less
That you've understood!!
Beautiful.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
Thank you...Quote:
Originally Posted by G L Wilson
All praise be to Him
Who holds the reins
Of time and space
Who has His own ways
Of doing things
Who gives life
And causes Death
Who from barren lands
Sparks up life
Who from green lands
Turns roses into dust
Who that holds the heavens
And All below
Who that is Amazing
Mysterious and full of Suspense
He who is Magnificent and the Greatest
Who is Kind and Merciful
But Avenger at the same time!
What do you call Him??
God, Krishna, Ram or Allah??
Whoever He may be
By Whatever name you called Him
He is a Rose with Thorns
He is All Evident yet Hidden
Who is Imperceivable
Who is the Master of Destiny
Creator and Destroyer
Malign Him not.
mazHur
And Mohammed was a man, a mere man.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
Quote:
Originally Posted by G L Wilson
Yes, Muhammad was a Man
A Mere Man
A Man among Men
A Man
A Man who still lives on
In the hearts of billions
More than any other of the Greatest Men
Who immensely influenced this World
Who impressed hearts in millions
or billions.
To be a Man, a mere Man
Is better than to be a fickle god
Of Mythology or of Men
A Man who conquered
a great many Human Hearts
Who was like Us
Whom a great Men won't stop praising
Who remains the apple of a great many people
Whom whose people(and others too)
Consider a Man, a mere Man
Surely he cannot be God
To be Human and live like a Human
And live on in the hearts of billions
Isn't a joke
Find me a Man like him
And I will be his servant!! :)
mazHur
Man can never be God, it is too dangerous.
This is quite the discussion. :willy_nilly:
I will say this though, as an atheist, I grow immensely tired of the borderline militant approach which with many of those who share the same outlook as I approach matters of religion and faith.
Like philosophy, religious faith represents an attempt on the part of the individual to come to grips with a reality that is apparently disorderly and meaningless. While I may not ascribe to any religious faith myself, it nonetheless plays an important and essential role in the life of the individual and of that of the community. It provides people with feelings of connection and civic obligation and it encourages them to place value in things outside of their material existence. Certainly it can be problematic when taken as dogma, but so can nationalism and marxism; as shown in the rise of fascism and stalinism.
Toleration is a virtue in and of itself, and people would gain immensely from realizing that.
Richard Dawkins is civil virtue in fancy dress, no-one ever said that I was decent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialectic
God I will hate to BeQuote:
Originally Posted by G L Wilson
He is too self-centred and easy-going;
Angel I will abhor to Be
Angels have no heart of their own!
I am a Man and so I shall Be
Better be a Human than anything else!
regards
mazHur
Too right, mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
Without earth there can be no heaven
I think your post is shows a very fair and balanced view. The point is not perhaps whether God - (creator ultimate God) - exists in the end, but how we as humans with our differing weightings upon science, religion and personal experience deal with our fellow man as a believer or as an unbeliever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialectic
It's been debated on this forum a lot, and sometimes devolves into mere argument and abuse. yet the question remains.
To play the Devil's advocate for a moment: Without hell, there can be no heaven. Hey presto, Atehequa, back to normal. Well said, Atehequa, may I pinch it as it is a beauty?Quote:
Originally Posted by Atehequa
God, Poet and Justice :)
God said, 'Adam, I
Want you to do
Something for Me.'
Adam said, 'Gladly,
Lord, what do You
Want me to do?'
God said, 'Go down
Into that valley.'
Adam said, 'What's a Valley?'
God explained it to
Him. Then God said,
'Cross the river.'
Adam said, 'What's a River?'
God explained that
To him, and then said,
'Go over to the hill....'
Adam said, 'What is a
Hill?'
So, God explained to
Adam what a hill was.
He told Adam, 'On
The other side of the
Hill you will find a
Cave.'
Adam said, 'What's a
Cave?'
After God explained,
He said, 'In the cave
You will find a woman.'
Adam said, 'What's a Woman?'
So God explained
That to him, too.
Then, God said, 'I
Want you to
Reproduce.'
Adam said, 'How do
I do that?'
God first said (under
His breath), 'Geez.....'
And then, just like Everything else, God Explained that to
Adam, as well.
So, Adam goes down
Into the valley,
Across the river, and
Over the hill, into the
Cave, and finds the
Woman.
Then, in about five Minutes, he was back.
God, His patience
Wearing thin, said
Angrily, 'What is it
Now?'
And Adam said....
*
(YOU'RE GOING TO LOVE THIS!!!!!!)
*
*
'What's a headache?'
Let the opponent glory in our humiliation or so called defeat..It is better to be charged with cowardice and weakness than to be guilty of denial of our oath and to sin against God. (Page: 60)
("Indian Summer" by Alex Von Tunzelmann.
God is non-existent.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
I am an innocent
Who believes in sin.
Imagine.
Okay, IF God is non-existent then who's governing the affairs of the universe???Quote:
Originally Posted by G L Wilson
Would any one in the world behave properly if there was NO accountability?? Because everything everyone is accountable in this world for his/her/its conduct there is least doubt that the Creator by whatever name you may call Him will let his creation go with delving into accountability, of course, He is divinely capable and does of everything including forgiving or punishing anyone without Reason as understood by terrestrial/banal minds or senses!
As Martin Sheen once said, "I see no method at all, sir." You may, I don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
Quote:
Originally Posted by G L Wilson
as someone hath said, there's peace in chaos!! lIfe demands action, death does't.This ispso facto proves the existence of God, the Almighty! Only one needs to know to trust Him!!
For Someone who doesn't exist, you spend a lot of time talking about Him.
What is history about?? Why do we remember events and people after they are over???? God was and is there...we deny Him because we do not want to nor do humans have the mental capability of comprehending and accepting the harsh reality behind the divine Truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by BienvenuJDC
Yes, but the question is for the Original Poster. For someone who says there is no God, there is so much time spent talking about Him. I just wonder why it matters so much to talk about Someone that in their mind doesn't exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
sorry, bienview, I mistook your 'aim'\Quote:
Originally Posted by BienvenuJDC
you're right..people when confused ask themselves Alice was male or a female>>;)
One Thread Only
By Bulleh Shah
(1680 - 1758)
English version by Ivan M. Granger
One thread, one thread only!
Warp and woof, quill and shuttle,
countless cloths and colors,
a thousand hanks and skeins --
with ten thousand names
ten thousand places.
But there is one thread only.
If God were, I couldn't forgive him.
would that change your belief??Quote:
Originally Posted by G L Wilson
You mean if I could forgive him, no I guess not.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
either you forgave Him or not......will make Him NO difference. However, it will keep you wondering in either case!!:)Quote:
Originally Posted by G L Wilson
I wonder alright, mazHur, more about myself than anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
is it a logic or argument which you said "If He exists, the world doesn't; and if the world doesn't exist, then He doesn't. " ?? can u explain it little more what u wanna say ? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by G L Wilson
'good habits' seldom change!!;)Quote:
Originally Posted by G L Wilson
In this context it is also said, in the words of poet IqbalQuote:
Originally Posted by usman.khawar
Jo tha nahi he jo hay na hoga
qareeb tar hay namood jis kee
usee ka mushtaq hay zamana
ie what was isn't there any more
what's there will not be any more
what is nearest to unfold
is what the world's looking for!
na tha agar tu shareek e mehfil
qasoor tera hay ya ke mera
tareeq mera nahi ke rakh loon
kisi kee khatir mayay shabana
If you failed to appear in the 'party'
is that my fault or yours??
It's not my rule to store away for anyone
the wine of yesternight!
and Ghalib....
When there was nothing God was
When there will be nothing God will be!!
Hey mazHUR, these are beautiful verses from Iqbal. May I ask from which collection? Zarb-e-Kalim? The topic of discussion is quite redundant here but your poems and quotes make it pleasurable.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
thanks for your comments, I am flattered!!:)Quote:
Originally Posted by aliengirl
here is the complete poem (titled Zamana ie This Age ) of Iqbal and video as well..
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/m...aqi/iqbal7.gif
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWZpQk_FIA8
PS: sorry I omitted half the first line ......ie Yehi hay ik harf-e-mehrmaana
( This is a 'private' secret)
Nice rendering of the poem by Iqbal Bano...MP3
Enjoy: http://www.mastfm103.com/tracks/?11008
I forgot to state that this poem of Iqbal is from his collection, Bal-e-Jibrael. Listen.........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZzctcYCvyE
I can't read Arabic, which is what I assume this is written in, but I wonder if line breaks are used in Arabic poetry or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
YesNo, the poem is not in Arabic but Urdu.Quote:
Originally Posted by YesNo
Urdu poetry has adopted rhythm and rhyme (metre) from Persian and Arabic. It is written in different styles and patterns. A collection of stanzas where each stanza reflects a different topic is called a Ghazal, the most popular form of romantic or sad poetry in Urdu.
The poem under reference is not a ghazal but a Nazm where an idea or a thought(theme) is continuously composed from beginning to end, hence its title "Present Age or Present Times''.
Unlike English where meter depends on the vocal stress (phonetics) you put on the word or the syllable, every word of Urdu has Fixed ''stress-marks'' on it. Consequently any deviation from ''stress' will destroy the meter (as in music) and render the poem unreadable or unworthy. However, free verse is allowed in Urdu but it is not so popular and good poets refuse to accept it as poetry at all. Least but not the last important thing in Urdu poetry as also in poetry of all languages is the best selection of words and syntax which makes it enjoyable for reading.
Ofcourse, Urdu poems are split into lines, quite distinctly. Two lines go in the making of a stanza in a ghazal but there can be 4 or 6 lines as well in other forms of poetry.
I don't understand a word of Urdu, but isn't it beautiful writing?
For your information, Iqbal is the national poet of Pakistan. He is also famed as the ''poet of the East' or 'Philosopher poet''.Quote:
Originally Posted by G L Wilson
I was able to find an English rendering of Iqbal's poem I just posted in Urdu. You might enjoy reading his thoughts as well as find more of his poems interesting
here is the url to his other poems...
http://www.allamaiqbal.com/works/poe...l/translation/
THIS AGE
The past is dead, the future unknown,
This is the only truth;
The world awaits with eagerness
The age that will soon emerge.
I know them all,
But know them at a different level;
Using some, and used by others,
And playing the mentor to a few.
The astrologer’s eye
Knows not my restless nature;
An eye not enlightened
Will miss the mark outright.
Sunset it is not, but blood—
Blood streaming in the firmament;
Today is dying into yesterday;
Wait for the silver streak.
The reckless minds that have unleashed
The frightening powers of nature,
Now wait in fear for the thunderbolt
That will destroy their homes.
The winds, the seas, and the ships,
Are all at their command;
But the whirlpools, minions of fate,
Are coiling to swallow them up.
The old world, which the West
Had made a gambling den,
Is breathing its last,
Yielding place to new.
The dervish, who is kingly
In his power of faith,
Will live, though the storms
Blast the thrones of kings.
Whose Earth is this, God's or yours???
Iqbal again.......
THE EARTH IS GOD'S
WHO rears the seed in the darkness of the ground?
Who lifts the cloud up from the ocean wave?
Who drew here from the west the fruitful wind?
Who made this soil, or who that light of the sun?
Who filled with pearls of grain the tasselled wheat?
Who taught the months by instinct to revolve?
Landlord! this earth is not thine, is not thine,
Nor yet thy fathers' ; no, not thine, nor mine.
by V. G. Kiernan. ISBN: 0 19 579185 1
I meant that Urdu calligraphy was beautiful. English can be imprecise at times when spoken informally.
oh yes, Urdu calligraphy is done in many modes, both Arabic and Persian.Quote:
Originally Posted by G L Wilson
True, funnily English changes with the mouth it's spoken with
I couldn't agree more, I feel so stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur