revenge

What do you think about revenge? May I have some of your opinions? I think it is a must under some circumstances.

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Originally Posted by virginiawang

What do you think about revenge? May I have some of your opinions? I think it is a must under some circumstances.

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I prefer to leave revenge in karma's hands so I don't generate the desire for even more revenge. I don't know if I always succeed.

What circumstances are you referring to?

I might have died if I had not revenged.
Now I really want to revenge more, upon one of my parents who bullied me again.

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Originally Posted by virginiawang

I might have died if I had not revenged.
Now I really want to revenge more, upon one of my parents who bullied me again.

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I suspect self-defense isn't revenge.

If revenge is dealt in equal measurement to the harm inflicted, this is justice. The problem with justice is that I don't believe any human, or any court, is able to accurately assess at what level an equal measurement actually is.

The problem with revenge is that it is a vicious cycle. Everytime you seek to bestow 'revenge' upon one who has wronged you, it is not usually in equal measurement to the extent of the wrong inflicted. It has to be more in order to satisfy ourselves. Now, if this turned out to be the behaviour of each party involved, you can see how each act of revenge must be bigger and more harmful than the last. The difference between the rightful amount of revenge and the actual inflicted amount of revenge will often translate into a feeling of guilt. It is very easy to ignore the guilt and furthermore, to justify it; this fuels the hatred, feeding it more and more until we are less ourselves and have become hatred itself...

Well, the above is what I have experienced and felt myself, and from what I've observed watching others. When a person deals an act of revenge, they are taking upon themselves a responsibility, but of such an unknown magnitude that the Christian Jesus advised against it - "If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them." I believe this advice was given in the best interest of the human soul, as preferable to being caught in the vicious trap of justice/revenge, and furthermore, attempts to end it, as it is unknown what destruction that spiral may do to the soul.

That said, it depends on the circumstance. For example, the 'slap the other cheek' rule shouldn't be used as mask for cowardice.

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Originally Posted by Emmy Castrol

If revenge is dealt in equal measurement to the harm inflicted, this is justice. The problem with justice is that I don't believe any human, or any court, is able to accurately assess at what level an equal measurement actually is.

The problem with revenge is that it is a vicious cycle. Everytime you seek to bestow 'revenge' upon one who has wronged you, it is not usually in equal measurement to the extent of the wrong inflicted. It has to be more in order to satisfy ourselves. Now, if this turned out to be the behaviour of each party involved, you can see how each act of revenge must be bigger and more harmful than the last. The difference between the rightful amount of revenge and the actual inflicted amount of revenge will often translate into a feeling of guilt. It is very easy to ignore the guilt and furthermore, to justify it; this fuels the hatred, feeding it more and more until we are less ourselves and have become hatred itself...

Well, the above is what I have experienced and felt myself, and from what I've observed watching others. When a person deals an act of revenge, they are taking upon themselves a responsibility, but of such an unknown magnitude that the Christian Jesus advised against it - "If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them." I believe this advice was given in the best interest of the human soul, as preferable to being caught in the vicious trap of justice/revenge, and furthermore, attempts to end it, as it is unknown what destruction that spiral may do to the soul.

That said, it depends on the circumstance. For example, the 'slap the other cheek' rule shouldn't be used as mask for cowardice.

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:iagree:

The only thing I would add about revenge is that it could be something only done in thought. That is, no action or spoken words are involved. One might suspect this is safe, however, I suspect such thought revenge is still damaging to the person who has those thoughts.

The way around revenge is to have something else to focus one's thoughts on. Often this is some sort of religious framework or set of beliefs, something that is more powerful than the desire for revenge.

Revenge indicates a lack of sufficient tolerance at any instantaneous moment.

Tolerance is possibly not an appropriate response to abusive parents.

More appropriate would be revenge, flight, hate, fear, or forgiveness. Or other responses, but not tolerance.

I have abusive parents. I'm speaking from experience.

Well - that put me in my place! I bow to your greater experience.

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Originally Posted by IceM

Revenge indicates a lack of sufficient tolerance at any instantaneous moment.

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Revenge and tolerence are not two opposing sides of the coin. One can make a better case for pitting revenge against calculated reason but to imply that one is either vengeful or tolerant is a false dichotomy.

Do you think the desire for revenge could stem from a suppression of emotion? Like saving up a whole lot of resentment to be released at some future point... sooner or later, it has to be expressed somehow.

I don't think abusive parents should be tolerated but one should try to understand them and the reasons behind their behaviour (usually insecurity or the subconscious continuation of habit).

I still think that revenge shouldn't be acted upon, if it can be helped. The most healthy thing to do is to move somewhere far, far away from them... and to build up a new life there...

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Originally Posted by Whifflingpin

Well - that put me in my place! I bow to your greater experience.

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For some reason I smell sarcasm. I'm sure it's not intentional; it's just that one friend I have always says they "bow" to my intelligence when they wish to stop arguing. That reminded me of them, with hopes you aren't being sarcastic.

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Originally Posted by Armel P

Revenge and tolerence are not two opposing sides of the coin. One can make a better case for pitting revenge against calculated reason but to imply that one is either vengeful or tolerant is a false dichotomy.

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Perhaps they aren't polar opposites. But being able to tolerate means being able to endure. Endurance grants me (personal experience) the ability to forego revenge. As long as I can persevere, I have no reason to retaliate.

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Originally Posted by Emmy Castrol

Do you think the desire for revenge could stem from a suppression of emotion? Like saving up a whole lot of resentment to be released at some future point... sooner or later, it has to be expressed somehow.

I don't think abusive parents should be tolerated but one should try to understand them and the reasons behind their behaviour (usually insecurity or the subconscious continuation of habit).

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Another form of experience: I supress my emotions quite often. Seems coincidental, I'm sure, to have my experiences come up instantaneously.

I've only ever admitted emotional repercussions from my parents to my best friends. But I act perfectly normal. I function very well amongst others. Of course, underlying doubt in oneself, negative self-esteem and an underlying lack of self-worth sometimes aren't easy to detect. I only confess it here under anonymity. But once again, I refer to my ability to tolerate, which I link synonymously to endurance; enduring eliminates revenge. It makes oneself stronger.

Also too, understanding and accepting a parent's reason for abusive behavior is tolerance of their views. I use it loosely, under many pretences, but my ability to endure above all else makes any strife I may have much less of an issue.

IceM, I agree in that tolerance - in the form of endurance - does eliminate the need for revenge. Perhaps it is because the act of endurance may be a release of emotion, of channeling it into a more constructive energy form?

I always find endurance to be internal. Newborn sensations and long-standing sentiments must be stored somewhere. My endurance is the ability to psychologically withstand emotional damage by philosophically rationalizing them.

Perhaps the self-satisfaction in knowing one can frequently endure channels out the energy as you suggest. Knowing one can persevere makes persevering easier. I just find myself feeling otherwise.

I believe in revenge. It is a natural feel to when someone, or something has done harm to us. But I also think you can take revenge to a level that does not to be reached. Example: Someone steals your lunch money, and you go out and steal their car.

AIyah, so long these threads are!

I think revenge is neccessary. The best way is to use their own strategies against them.

Revenge is just another name for hatred, but give an honourable spin to make it respectable.

In truth there's no honour in it. Someone commits a despicable act and you react with a despicable act. It's no lss despicable, though the motives are clearer.

What was Sicily like with it's culture of revenge? Vicious if you were caught up in it.

I believe in revenge under very extraordinary circumstances. If a person is going to act in vengeance, one should be prepared to pay the price resulting in this karma coming back in some indirect way. I also believe that seeking revenge is wrong.

In the old days there were raids and counter raids carried out on and by my people. Goods, captives and honor were acquried. Some of this stemmed from revenge, but mostly it was a way of life. War and ancient feuds where the object was not to kill all of the enemy as that would end such a pastime and means to acquire goods, captives and honors.

Revenge is never just.

I suppose there are a rare few who have never sought or taken it.

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Originally Posted by Atehequa

I suppose there are a rare few who have never sought or taken it.

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There are all kinds of revenges - not just the blood feud, eye for an eye type. It's easy to get verbal revenge on someone, or to wait until they are in a vulnerable position, or to lie in wait until some dispute erupts.

The saying revenge is a dish best eaten cold is such a callous view. Biding one's time in a pre-meditated way until someone shows a vulnerability is very cold blooded.

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Originally Posted by Paulclem

There are all kinds of revenges - not just the blood feud, eye for an eye type.

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All kinds indeed

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Originally Posted by Emmy Castrol

Do you think the desire for revenge could stem from a suppression of emotion? Like saving up a whole lot of resentment to be released at some future point... sooner or later, it has to be expressed somehow.

I don't think abusive parents should be tolerated but one should try to understand them and the reasons behind their behaviour (usually insecurity or the subconscious continuation of habit).

I still think that revenge shouldn't be acted upon, if it can be helped. The most healthy thing to do is to move somewhere far, far away from them... and to build up a new life there...

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I too am speak from personal experience, maybe teenager or child rebellion streak is revenge at time but the resent stay for forever. It disappear when you die or they die which ever come first.

Tolerated is all well good when you are child with them sort parents, also as adult tolerated parents like is unbearable. As for understand why. No one will never be able answer.

Mine revenge is now be parent and adult choose better life for my kids and be able to express my feelings and imagery creative writing which I love.

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Originally Posted by virginiawang

What do you think about revenge? May I have some of your opinions? I think it is a must under some circumstances.

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Sorry what this got with religious text? If you have put this in sub forum, maybe you should have quote to support why you with in this sub forum?

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Originally Posted by zoolane

Sorry what this got with religious text? If you have put this in sub forum, maybe you should have quote to sport why you with in this sub forum?

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Religion is a revenge on the brutality of callous men.

Revenge is self serving. Christianity is all about serving God and serving others. It's not about seeking answers, guidance, and direction from within yourself. It's about seeking all those things from god through his word which is the Bible. Our self-centered sin nature always wants to take over but it doesn't serve us well.

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Originally Posted by blithe spirit

Revenge is self serving. Christianity is all about serving God and serving others. It's not about seeking answers, guidance, and direction from within yourself. It's about seeking all those things from god through his word which is the Bible. Our self-centered sin nature always wants to take over but it doesn't serve us well.

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OK Grant, if you beleive god that all well and good. What about if you don't any faith then what? What about if you want retribution of any kind e.g violence, con, out do (keep up with Jones)?

The Christian knows all about violence, he cares to ignore his part in it as is his right, for he actually believes that he can ignore it. He believes a lot of things, none of which are true.

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Originally Posted by zoolane

if you beleive god that all well and good. What about if you don't any faith then what? What about if you want retribution of any kind e.g violence, con, out do (keep up with Jones)?

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zoolane, that's all sin nature that you mentioned and won't bring you any joy.

zoolane, pray to God, pray to a priest, just pray, just pray. BTW I am being ironic.

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Originally Posted by G L Wilson

The Christian knows all about violence, he cares to ignore his part in it as is his right, for he actually believes that he can ignore it. He believes a lot of things, none of which are true.

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So what said is anyone who seeking revenge should just let go fact of it, true revenge is act all about person who hurt but why should they bring pain to person cause then the pain. If you want example: what country has right to killed person for the crimes they commit. The Christian forgiveness?

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Originally Posted by blithe spirit

zoolane, that's all sin nature that you mentioned and won't bring you any joy.

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I have done all my sins as teenager. Revenge do not seek. Just having discussion.

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Originally Posted by zoolane

So what said is anyone who seeking revenge should just let go fact of it, true revenge is act all about person who hurt but why should they bring pain to person cause then the pain. If you want example: what country has right to killed person for the crimes they commit. The Christian forgiveness?

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zoolane, you are very close here to what Sir Francis Bacon had to say about revenge.

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Originally Posted by G L Wilson

The Christian knows all about violence, he cares to ignore his part in it as is his right, for he actually believes that he can ignore it. He believes a lot of things, none of which are true.

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This is mere silliness. Obviously, a great many Christians believe a great many things that are true. Many Christians, for example, believe that Barack Obama is the President of the U.S.

You appear to want to be cryptic, but you are spewing nonsense.

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Originally Posted by zoolane

I have done all my sins as teenager.

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It's been a long time since I was a teenager and I still sin everyday. Anything that is not pleasing to God is sin. Once we realize we sin then we know we're in need of a savior. Romans 3:28 says all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. If we do nothing about it then when we die physically, we will also die spiritually for eternity. But there is something we can do if we want eternal life...John 3:16

Many Christians believe Obama is bogus.

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Originally Posted by blithe spirit

It's been a long time since I was a teenager and I still sin everyday. Anything that is not pleasing to God is sin. Once we realize we sin then we know we're in need of a savior. Romans 3:28 says all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. If we do nothing about it then when we die physically, we will also die spiritually for eternity. But there is something we can do if we want eternal life...John 3:16

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You mean 1 John 3: 16, do you not?

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Originally Posted by blithe spirit

It's been a long time since I was a teenager and I still sin everyday. Anything that is not pleasing to God is sin. Once we realize we sin then we know we're in need of a savior. Romans 3:28 says all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. If we do nothing about it then when we die physically, we will also die spiritually for eternity. But there is something we can do if we want eternal life...John 3:16

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OK everybody does things in everyday life which Christian person would class as sin but personal it human nature it in our genes. How else do learn or teach right from wrong to anyone? Please do not try tell me thought bible.