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Freedom is a word that we all heard and read about and said it a lot.We all have our own versions of this word and it is meaning.
But what is the real meaning of freedom?
Is their an absolute freedom in our world?
Can freedom be conditioned? (applied when it suit us and not applied when it works against us).
To me, 'freedom' is the absence of suffering.
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persuasion
Pitcairn Islanders thought so, but the world caught up with them eventually.
Perhaps freedom is a term that necessitates context as universal laws will ultimately dictate the amount of actions that can occur. The elementary mechanisms — and root particles and rules that support these — that manifest in the macroscopic phenomena we experience intrinsically dilute the semantic merit of a term such as freedom. If all actions result from the interaction of mass within space then surely mass, and its interactions, is a limiting factor with regard to what can occur. The universe as it can be observed is finite and thus restricted. In context, freedom is a term that describes the relative restrictions of one situation to another.
No, there never can be. We still have to pay taxes, to enjoy the services we get such as refuse collection, street lighting, fire services, hospitals etc. if they aren't provided by the state, then we have to pay insurance companies. In order to pay those taxes, we have to work. We have responsibilites to others around us, even if only in a passive sense. We have to provide housing for our families, which comes at a price. We have to provide food for them, whether we pay for it, or whether we grow it. If we grow it, the land it is grown on may be leased/rented. What we grow is dictated by the needs of those we support. In any event, seed has to be paid for, unless we have seen to it that we have our own source, which could be constured as a lack of freedom. Every country in the world has a government, to which we are more or less subject. Not that any of this is necessarily bad, it could hardly be construed as total freedom.
to me, freedom is a necessary utopia that keeps us going through the centuries. there is no absolute freedom in nature, if we take into consideratio the fact that people have many a times been controlled by nature, not being able to control its powers. so from a point of view, human beings, and animate form of existence in general is not completely free, for it is always controlled to an extent.
being free means not being controlled, being able to act on our own, without being imposed, confronted etc. but we can see from our everyday life and experience, that complete freedom does not exist. children are controlled by their parents ; they are not free to do the things they want or give them pleasure if their parents think they are not for the child's good. but nevertheless, even if the motives are good, they 'steal' their children's freedom.
we are not allowed to work the way we want to, we have to go according to what our employer wishes us to do, otherwise we are fired. yes, we have the freedom to choose and quit, but are restrained by the instict of survival.
there are many examples that show us that absolute freedom cannot exist in a world where different forms of life interact, in a society where people co-exist, simply because, life is constructed in a hierarchy, in a system. if absolute freedom was ateempted by every single person, then what would occur would be a chaos. unfortunately, absolute freedom does not bring balance, simply because, total freedom means that everyone can do what he wishes, despite the fact that his wishes and actions might have great impacts on other people's lives. this way, everyone would be uncontrollable and perhaps terrible things would happen.
on the other hand of course, all these might not sound really humanistic, but rather practical and deterministic. yes, i believe that freedom does not exist entirely. but that does not mean that we are condemned to slavery. personally, i am not the one to judge the state of the world and of society, and although i try to see the naked truth of this issue, it is true that people have by nature the need to be free, like every other animal in this world.
I love your version of " Freedom" every time i read it i understand it more :)Quote:
Originally Posted by African_Love
Yeah as you all said there is no absolute freedom in our world or this universe we are all connected. together in away we can't have full and total freedom.
I think limited freedom is good as long as our pride and dignity is respected and our rights as human beings are preserved and protected. Limited freedom can help to shape our lives and find meaning to it.
But what I hate is the conditioned freedom, a freedom given to people as long as they are thinking, believing and living the way the political power want and their interests are met.
If one person or group of people chose a different believe or way of living, then their freedom is taken??!
Freedom is sin. Limited freedom is slavery.
Why freedom is sin ?:shocked:Quote:
Originally Posted by IceM
I don't think that 'freedom' can be defined by one definition/meaning, in the same way that 'love' cannot be defined under one meaning.
In my opinion, there are types of freedom.
- There's the physical freedom, i.e. not being held in bondage/ captivitiy.
- Then there's freedom of rights - getting what's your due [and as dafydd said, we have to sometimes pay a monetary fee for these rights, eg garbage collection]
--Then there's freddom of thought - mental freedom. This is the type of freedom we should worry about. Are we really free from mental enslavement?
That's my take on it.
How can there be an absolute freedom, for we are slaves to so many things. Imagine you are a child and you depend on your parents or guardians for a variety of things fro foods through clothes, shelters to compassions and for all that you have to obey your parents. You may loath school, do not like to eat medicines while sick and like to eat lots of ice-cream and the like but you are not free to do all that your heart wants. You may be a grownup. You want to certain things or behave instinctively but there is a society or culture restricting you to sets of manners or to codes of conducts.
You are slaves to the foods you eat and in the same way you are a slave to the compassion of your wife. The state gives you a certain amount of security and you have to follow its rules and if you breach any of them you will be subjected to the punishments pursuant to the laws legislated by the people you chose to represent you and your community. Man can never be free and freedom is drivel ideated by a few political pundits in point of fact
Sin is a socially unacceptable, but common, act. It is frowned upon. In committing one you distance yourself from others on the basis on conduct and from religious law on the basis of defiance. Doing this creates a spiritual freedom. You are indulging in an experience, a feeling others seek to resist. You break away from religious law is a sense similar to the Americans breaking away from British Parliament prior to the Revolution. One creates from themselves a personal niche that nobody can infringe upon, because there is no standard with evil as there is with good. Hopefully that explanation is sufficient.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persuasion
Good summary!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tournesol
Let's not get carried away... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by blazeofglory
If, in a country where some human beings have physical ownership of and the right to torture other human beings, there are political voices calling for the "freedom" of the chained and tortured individuals, I think it would be wrong to dismiss those calls as 'drivel' simply because everyone is "enslaved" by food, or because society might still have less onerous restrictions preventing us from stealing or endangering each other, etc. I think that people using the word "freedom" aren't usually promising anything about freedom from food, or freedom from restrictions people generally find beneficial.
In most cases when talking abvout freedom we are talking about it in the political sense.
So in this context, freedom is the ability for an individual to make decisions over the soverignty of his destiny and life, and the ability to express himself and express those decisions. It locates the center of decision making in the individual and not the state or group or other mass entity. Ecomonic freedom is clearly a part of the political environment that he lives. If a man is not free to keep the fruits of his labor (his earnings, within some acceptable allowance for social responsibility) then he is clearly not free. If a man is taxed on his earnings at 50%, then he is only half free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazeofglory
Sometimes we limit or sacrifice our freedom to get the love of our partners or keep them happy or keep them with us, but isn’t this a freedom?!
A freedom to give up our freedom with our own well in order to be happy.
Are you saying that you need to sacrifice your freedom to be loved in return by the person you love?Quote:
Originally Posted by Persuasion
If you don't mind me asking, Persuasion, are you a young female of Muslim (probably Arabic) origin? In your late teens/early 20s?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scheherazade
What made you think that I'm Muslim of Arabic origin in my 20s ?
Besides this happens everywhere in the world one way or another people give some of freedom to maintain a relationship.
Don't you think you should answer my question first before posing one of your own?Quote:
Originally Posted by Persuasion
Of course, we all give up a little in a relationship; it is called "compromise".Quote:
Besides this happens everywhere in the world one way or another people give some of freedom to maintain a relationship.
However in your earlier post, you said "Sometimes we limit or sacrifice our freedom to get the love of our partners". Now, this is not compromise but bribing the person you set your heart on to love you in return.
What's more, if a person cares for you, they will not ask you "sacrifice" something as precious as your freedom.
Will you be expecting the other person "sacrifice" their freedom to get your love?
Dear Scheherazade, I choose not to answer this question, because this Topic "Freedom" discusses freedom in it's meaning and types in our world irrelevant to our religions and origins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scheherazade
Of course, we all give up a little in a relationship; it is called "compromise".
Compromise is another meaning of restricted freedom, you give up some of your freedom to keep the relationship going.
However in your earlier post, you said "Sometimes we limit or sacrifice our freedom to get the love of our partners". Now, this is not compromise but bribing the person you set your heart on to love you in return.
What's more, if a person cares for you, they will not ask you "sacrifice" something as precious as your freedom.
Will you be expecting the other person "sacrifice" their freedom to get?
My point from this comment "Sometimes we limit or sacrifice our freedom to get the love of our partners or keep them happy or keep them with us, but isn’t this a freedom?!
A freedom to give up our freedom with our own well in order to be happy."
Is that when we make the choice of limiting or sacrificing our freedom to get
the love of a partner (whether this right or wrong) with our own well, then this is one form of Freedom. A freedom of choice.
]
No worries. Your reluctance to give a straight answer is an answer in itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persuasion
And in this instance, I believe, our social and religious backgrounds are important because it is one of the misinterpreation of Islam that female members of the society should "sacrifice" their "freedom" to make their partners happy or to be accepted.
However, we are not going to discuss religion here and, since in your reply you simply repeat the same things again without offering further explanation, I don't think there is much else to be discussed either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scheherazade
Dear Scheherazade, why not tell us about your version of freedom and your thoughs about ?
FREEDOM is often misunderstood as Free Will where Anything is possible and where values are incosequential to Choice and Action.
Freedom is in fact something we seem to picture in life, but in the real sense I do not think there is any freedom in our real life. I do not think there is any freedom from fear, though we are protected by state police forces in point of fact. People accumulate wealth thinking that they may need it in future, but he is not sure that he can consume them, for there is a fear of death, of stealth and the like and therefore we may outwardly be intrepid but psychologically or inwardly it is all the time lurking
Might one form of Freedom be the right to put forward a point of view without anybody else being confrontational? Freedom of thought, in a sense? Freedom of expression, and most especially in a forum where all are equal until they prove themselves otherwise?
It feels good to have the freedom to share the idea of freedom with all of the members that gave some of their time to share it with me, thanks :cheers2:
I think in our world on earth there is no real unlimited freedom. There are rules of the universe made by God, and rules that we made, and still make, which limits our freedom whether for our own good or for the others own good.
To me freedom is being able to fly like birds with out engines, or artificial wings and feel the wind on my face. Just imagining that makes me happy.
Maybe freedom is in our mind, in our heart !
The notion of 'freedom' is one that is propagated unconsciously by the bourgeoisie to perpetuate class servility. To think in terms of 'freedom' and 'enslavement' is to be a slave; a slave to a language which for the last two-hundred or so years has lost any meaning.
Freedom is the condition of being able to exercise one's free will. I am free to chose all my behaviors except those that sustain my life (eating, breathing, drinking, sleeping). Those behaviors can be stopped via my free will choice, but only for so long. Pretty much everything else is a function of my choice.
However, unfettered freedom is not freedom at all: my freedom to swing my arm extends only as far as my neighbor's right to not have his nose broken extends. Once I swing my arm and break his nose, I've violated his freedom to not have his person violated. We must voluntarily limit our own freedoms to protect the freedoms of others, which in turn protects our own. Any good book on jurisprudence and/or natural law will make clear that embedded in the idea of freedom is a limitation of rights. With no limitation of rights, there can be no true freedom, because unrestricted freedom morphs into oppression of the worst kind.
Most of the replies have being on hardship of countries, religion or political in one shape or other.
Freedom is probably could all these things and more in that mindset but freedom to me is one being open honesty with everyone with my opinions maybe being not so blunt as I have been. Freedom to me is be able to on here, writing what whether to chose to writing about and be dictate to what allow to writing this forum obvious with reason. To going to college (hopeful passes exams in May). Still remaining having a great relationships with my partner and my kids.
the best one who can tell you the right meaning of freedom someone who requires it .
freedom is not an ordinary word it's words and words carry a lot of meanings and philosopher experiences . if your parents insult you , if your brothers hate you , your friend is cunning as a fox and suddenly you find your self in a close room with mice , you'll know what do you want!!!
freedom
Freedom !!
Looking at what’s happening now in this world, I think the word lost its meaning.
The way I look at it is "Freedom" is what ever you make it to be.
That is to say that "Freedom" is dependent solely on your individual opinion/personality.
The meaning "Freedom" has to me is knowing my "happiness", "respect", "love", "hate", "perspective" ect.. is 100% my own and effected by how I judge it.
I don't deny that any one of those states of mind/emotions can all be conditioned by external factors, however, no one will know exactly what I'm thinking or how I will react to certain adverse situations.
You can take an educated guess if you observe me long enough but you'll never know.
Thats my personal freedom.
This may sound quite introverted and a anti-social but thats not how I'm trying to come across.
Its just I find that the quality of freedom is defined internally and no matter what external factors you come across, you will never be truly free unless you are rigid and strong from within.
That is my opinion of freedom, hope that it helps. :)
P.S. I'll clarify myself if this is hard to understand, just give me a shout. :D
Hi,
The only totally free thing is nothing; it is impossible for a thing to be totally free, in a strict sense. For a thing to be totally free of all constraints would render it free from its own properties, and thus non-existent. Therefore a thing that possesses total freedom, or metaphysical libertarianism is an incoherency and a logical (and even conceptual) impossibility. Insofar as a thing's behavior is necessitated by the properties that constitute it, everything must be subject to some degree of determinism; for those truly probabilistic events (if such events exist) the behavior of the object(s) involved are determined by randomness.
Freedom can be defined as a lack of constraints. With the aforementioned, we can deduce that something can only be free with respect to something else. For example, a will can be free to do what it wants, yet it can never be free from itself, i.e. its own values and desires.
One interpretation of the question "is there absolute freedom in our world" posited by the OP is: "can one have absolute freedom with respect to society?" And the answer is probably yes: imagine one who lives by themselves, totally independently, in a cabin somewhere in the woods. Most people do not want to live like that, however. And there is an observation to be made; that when someone does so choose to live independently from society, he looses all the conveniences society had offered (such as tap water), which actually granted him certain freedoms that he would not otherwise possess.
Things are substantially better than they were 70 years ago. From a retrospective point of view, the now is pretty great!Quote:
Originally Posted by Persuasion
I am finding this quite hard to understand. I don't see any merits in making freedom's definition arbitrary. One can associate freedom with happiness, etc. but surely not define it as such?Quote:
Originally Posted by Derwind
This is not so. I find external influences have no sway on "freedom" beyond the literal definition i.e. locked in a prison cell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunninglinguist
Happiness is a factor yes but I think "Freedom" has to involve how one is affected by external factors.
The person doesn't have to be a happy over there situation but they have right mental constitution to make the best of what they have and to not be affected by most any external factors.
This is what "freedom" means to me, though I'll admit I may be misguided or even naive but I like to think "freedom" is whatever I make of it. :)
I'm still not understanding this. How are you defining freedom? Freedom in the literal sense? You seem to be equating freedom with freedom of thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by Derwind
Not freedom in the absolute literal sense i.e. Being locked in a cage and then find a way to escape, thus finding your freedom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunninglinguist
I think you may be right about freedom with freedom of thought, I personally find the most liberating freedom one could have. But more to the point, I think what I'm trying to get at is really just positive thinking. Taking the world with a glass half full approach, seems to me the only way to find truly attainable freedom.
Though I suppose that sounds like its approaching theism, I assure you I have no intention of guiding this discussion into a nattering of moral quandaries. :smilewinkgrin:
if there is no God than i m free. and if He exist i m not free.
i came to know He exist and found amazing that He gives freedom!! freedom of choice/.
its crystal clear i have to bear my choices results by myself.
Freedom is dreamless sleep.
Fear is a strong bond.Quote:
Originally Posted by usman.khawar
Truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Panglossian
yes you are right fear is a strong bond. but i believe and came to know Love is the most powerfull and strong bond.Quote:
Originally Posted by G L Wilson
but i didnt understand why you comment this in reply for my post ? will u explain the reason ?