Is it a bad idea for me to use nonstandard English in a class which has English as a foreign language? For example, using pseudo instead of supposed-to-be.
My problem is that I can't express myself using "simplified" English.
Is it a bad idea for me to use nonstandard English in a class which has English as a foreign language? For example, using pseudo instead of supposed-to-be.
My problem is that I can't express myself using "simplified" English.
I'm not sure exactly what you are meaning, but I will respond this way. You need to effectively communicate to your audience in the best way that you think will convey your message.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean either... but when in doubt — and if you want people to understand what you REALLY want to say — then just KISS (Keep it simple, stupid.)Quote:
Originally Posted by scaltz
Nonstandard means complex English. For example, using pesudo instead of supposed-to-be.
Pseudo isn't complex at all. For example, pseudo science is a common usage. It's shorter, more economical and easier to digest. You're convey the same meaning without being unnecessarily long winded. It just won't sound right if you say something is "supposed-to-be science" (more words). That to me is more convoluted.
You have other examples?
A presentation is aimed at an audience and it is the presenter's responsibility that s/he makes sure that s/he reaches to his/her audience in the most effective way.
Hence, I do think you need to use a language that will be understood and appreciated by your audience, especially in an ESOL/EFL class.
And complex = non-standard?
For native speakers, "non-standard" has a different meaning. It basically means English that is different from what is considered normal and correct in that particular English-speaking environment. For native speakers, the environment would generally be a nation, or a region. For you, it is an ESL environment.
I would say that it depends on the purpose of your presentation.
If you are in a class of students that are interested in improving their English, I would suggest that you go ahead and use some English that might not be simplified English. However, that sort of vocabulary should be explained to the class/audience before the presentation. You would have to speak to your teacher about this first.
If, however, you are in an environment in which your presentation itself is the only concern of the audience (that is, they are not really interested in learning new/non-simplified English expressions), then it would probably be expected that you stick to the simplified-English. There might be some technical terms that are important to your presentation, and those should be explained, of course. But otherwise, the unfortunate restriction against using the useful "pseudo" instead of the sometimes more awkward "supposed-to-be" might have to be respected.
Is your instructor very busy, or difficult to talk to about this?
No, actually I think that the instructor/teacher will actually give me hints if I am explaining a passage in a way that is deemed to be too complex for the non English speaking class. Though, I think that I won't be suing words like "albeit" or "thus" or even "pragmatic". I also have to refrain myself from using common, grammatically wrong, expressions like "bestest".Quote:
Originally Posted by billl
Argh, I think that I got that definition wrong. What I mean by "nonstandard" English is English that's not usually used by the guy/girl-next-door, English that is normally used in literature.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scheherazade
I still can't say that I completely understand your situation, but I think it might be a good idea for you and your instructor to go over some of these "non-standard" words before the presentation, and decide which ones you really need or that might be good for the other students to learn. Quickly introducing and explaining some limited number of words (Two? Seven?) before the presentation might make things a lot simpler for you and the audience. But using too much advanced vocabulary would probably end up causing your audience to stop paying attention.
What is the class' normal language? And what level of English do you feel they (or you all - I assume you're a student in this class?) speak?Quote:
Originally Posted by scaltz
I think you may be underestimating your classmates' ability to understand you. When I learned foreign languages, one of the first words I learned to say was "so" (which has the same meaning as "thus") and if the language has cognates with English, perhaps even the word "pragmatic" or one of its synonyms "practical" will not sound completely alien to the class.
And even among students with truly horrendous grammar, I've never ever heard the word "bestest" used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilde woman
Actually the word "pragmatic" is a latin word hence a common word for every latin language. And I'm not underestimating them, in fact I think that I am overestimating them! Indeed, they don't even know the word latter and couldn't understand my "articulated" (at least I tried to!) English. Well I don't really blame them it's just been four years since they've started learning English... and I don't think that academic (or "snob" to ignorants) English comes first than the standard one.
Are you a megalomaniac? Otherwise I can not understand your "problem"...
Ok, imagine your oral presentation being marked as "confusing" and "unsatisfactory" just because you are using simplified words. How would YOU feel?Quote:
Originally Posted by JackieGinger
Another thing, if your teacher restrained you from using these particular thus forcing you to think substitutes for these word. So while thinking you will have to make lots of pauses and even have "uhmmm" moments, that's not very pretty for an oral presentation isn't it?
Why don't you submit an outline of the presentation including some of the likely phrases you will be using?Quote:
Originally Posted by scaltz
Just use the lexicon you're comfortable with. If you don't you'll end up losing it.
For a professional speaker his/her audience ALWAYS comes first.
If you are having a presentation the most important thing to do is to consider the level of (any kind of) knowledge of your listeners.
What do you consider as the use of a pres., if not REACHING your audience somehow???
Interesting point of view which had a quick and direct answer and also made me think! Thanks :D! I discovered that at times like these, I have to adapt to the situation by training my weak points and not continue to rely on my strong ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackieGinger
You write very well, though (and probably speak well, I assume), so your frustration is understandable.
The skills you maybe have to develop are similar to those that your teacher probably has. Actually, you perhaps used them back when you were first learning a second language--in particular, the ability to nevertheless express yourself when vocabulary is lacking. It can occasionally even be a useful skill when speaking with native speakers. Sometimes, making things simpler can go a long way.
Anyhow, most of all, good luck finding an audience that is more suited to your level sometime soon.
"Bestist" isn't non-standard English. It is standard non-English. Up with it we will not put, to quote Churchill.