Kerouac was cool

merry christmas, boys & girls,

'cool' is a subjective term, despite its beatnik roots, it's been manipulated into every context possible, whether highbrow or lowbrow, to a degree in which one could consider it pseudo-archaic. pressing onwards, i think jack kerouac was as cool as ****, i have no criteria but i smile and know that he is, it's embedded in our conscience collective. other beatnik authors spring to mind, cult writers also, but stepping away from them who jolts you?

i nominate: gore vidal. sicko.

Oh yeah, Kerouac was hot (hottest writer ever, seriously).

Arthur Rimbaud was cool too (he runs away at fifteen to get wasted and sleep around in Paris; nicely done).

I can't think of any writer "cooler" than Henry Miller. His writing had a nice rock 'n roll swagger to it a whole decade before Mick Jagger was even born.

After On the Road was published Kerouac insisted that his future novels be unedited and go out exactly as he scribbled them in his notebooks. Yet Road is the novel that Kerouac's reputation rests upon. Nobody ever mentions his later works.

I certainly second Henry Miller, how did I forget that randy bastard?

Charles Baudelaire, also.

"Cool" in what sense? In what they wrote, or in the way they lived?

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Originally Posted by Jermac

"Cool" in what sense? In what they wrote, or in the way they lived?

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Don't both traits usually go together?

No, I don't think that both traits usually go together; in some cases they might. Rimbaud for example did not live a cool life, but he wrote some cool stuff. Ginsberg on the contrary lived a cool life and wrote cool stuff.

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Originally Posted by Jermac

No, I don't think that both traits usually go together; in some cases they might. Rimbaud for example did not live a cool life, but he wrote some cool stuff. Ginsberg on the contrary lived a cool life and wrote cool stuff.

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But Rimbaud did live a cool (as burntpunk has defined the word) life. He wandered all over Europe, got drunk, had sex and smoked opium non-stop between the ages of fifteen and nineteen, then he ran off to Africa to work in the jungle where he had multiple African mistresses. I think that's cool. Most Rimbaud worshippers that I know compare him to Jim Morrison.

I'd argue that being cool and writing cool usually go together.

i just finished doctor sax the other day.. understand the point of stream of consciousness, and i am all for experimental literature, but this really was a load of drivel.. and i usually love kerouac

nothing to do with the thread title, soz! just that 'cool' definitely is subjective - because i'm sure there are some people who probably think doctor sax is a 'cool' book

To jump in on the cool life verses cool writing discussion, I think Kerouac lived a beatnik kind of life and some people would say that as cool. He also wrote about this life in On the Road. So I disagree with Jermac, in this particular case. The writer's "cool" life can inspire his/her writing. I think that is the point to discuss or think about. How does a writer/artist's life influence their creative process?

Rimbaud did not live a cool life--he was a gun-runner, and he eventually had to have a leg amputated.

JuniperWoolf, we simply disagree and that is "cool."

perhaps because of the time frame it takes place in, I was near Kerouac's age, about 7-8 years younger. Randomly writing as he did, I can see why his work needed a great deal of editing to make any sense out of it. As far as being 'Cool', if you want to drink yourself to death and die of cirrohsis before you are 50, perhaps you consider him to have lived a 'Cool' life. I don't consider wxcessive drink and drugs as being 'Cool'.

I agree, drinking and drugging your life away is not cool as many writers never outgrew this lifestyle.

Rimbaud was pretty cool during the period in which he lived as a poet. But, of course his life got substantially less interesting after he stopped writing and went to Africa.

Kerouac's story ends similarly. He lived the carefree beatnik writer's life for a good 20 years, and then after he got famous he spent the rest of his life as a fat Catholic racist drinking himself to death in his mother's living room.

Agreed, Desolation, Kerouac essentially evaded responsibility all his life and I think that inability to face up has alot of kudos in this definition of "cool".

Somebody mentioned Doctor Sax earlier, and I have to agree that was a dreadful novel. I think that was the last one I ever read by Kerouac.

Satori in Paris was one he wrote in the mid 60s when he was well into his alcoholic phase and it made no sense to speak of, either. A "satori" is supposed to be an illumination, a life-changing moment, and I kept waiting for this satori to happen but i soon realised that there was no such moment coming. It was just drink-sodden nonsense.

When thinking about Kerouac and Miller I can't help but be innundated w/ a certain sense of depravity. Is that an obligatory aspect of coolness?

I read On The Road, I wasn't really that impressed by it to be honest. I wondered what all of the fuss was about & I still do. I am obviously not 'cool'.

:cold:

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Originally Posted by Brad Coelho

When thinking about Kerouac and Miller I can't help but be innundated w/ a certain sense of depravity. Is that an obligatory aspect of coolness?

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No, depravity is certainly not an obligatory aspect of coolness, not should depravity generally be respected. With some figures, the coolness just overrides the depravity.

In Miller's case, I tend to think of him as literature's equivalent to the Rolling Stones. It doesn't matter how depraved or morally bankrupt their lifestyles are, even when those lifestyles are heavily incorporated into their art, they're just cool no matter what. The funny thing is, I'm actually not very fond of overt sexuality, yet Miller remains one of my favorite and most admired writers.

Interesting take. I too adore Miller's deconstructed expression of literature (much like I do Burroughs) and am paradoxically uninterested in the realm of the ribald. I like the Rolling Stones comparison.

Cool is negated the moment one is making a conscious movement toward being cool. For mine, many of the beats are thus not cool. I think Kerouac salvaged his coolness by drinking himself to death in his mother's living room. That level of indifference wins you big points. Ginsberg was demonstrably insecure, very Jewish, and wrote a truck load of terrible poetry. Not cool. Burroughs could never muster enough sustained talent to be cool. Plus he shot his wife in the head and killed her. Uncool.

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Originally Posted by sixsmith

Cool is negated the moment one is making a conscious movement toward being cool.

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Ah, so that's the secret... :cool:

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Originally Posted by sixsmith

Ginsberg was demonstrably insecure, very Jewish, and wrote a truck load of terrible poetry. Not cool.

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In his defence, among the slightly dodgy homo-erotic wish fulfilments & his rather naive politics, there was the occasional spectacular use of imagery.

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Originally Posted by sixsmith

Burroughs could never muster enough sustained talent to be cool. Plus he shot his wife in the head and killed her. Uncool.

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I have only ever read Naked Lunch & to be honest I couldn't make top nor tail of it. It seemed to be full of promising ideas that were never actually realised. What really impressed me about the 'banned edition' however was the appendix of the letter to the British Journal of Addiction (Vol 53, No 2) where he seems to be incredibly insightful & prophetic about the way governments exploit the fear of drugs &/or drug abuse for their own tendentious propaganda purposes.

I saw a 'Original Scroll' version of On the Road today. It said that it was the 'uncensored manuscript'. Has anyone read both and is there much of a difference?

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Originally Posted by Veho

I saw a 'Original Scroll' version of On the Road today. It said that it was the 'uncensored manuscript'. Has anyone read both and is there much of a difference?

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I don't know how much censoring there was, but the original scroll was not ready for the press; it required massive rewriting. I wonder if the original was ever published in its original wording.

I just looked and learned that Viking Press published On the Road: The Original Scroll in 2007. I haven't seen this, but it appears to be available on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Road-Original-.../dp/067006355X

Hmmm… :idea:

Maybe Jean-Paul Sartre and Simone De Beauvoir in a kooky European ugly way! ;)

Sartre was ****ing cool.

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Originally Posted by Desolation

Kerouac's story ends similarly. He lived the carefree beatnik writer's life for a good 20 years, and then after he got famous he spent the rest of his life as a fat Catholic racist drinking himself to death in his mother's living room.

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The "rest of his life" part above sounds more interesting to me than the cliche "rebel" "experiment" "hedonist" 20-something f**king story that every college kid tries to some extent before settling down to become a suburbanite slob (cliche phase-2)