Notorious

This discussion began in the Viewing Room social group.

I've recently seen Alfred Hitchcock's Notorious for the second time and I know I am going to be burned at the stake for this, but even though I enjoyed it and found it very good, there was something troubling me throughout it, and I simply can't consider it the Master's best film, IMHO.

Though I must certainly admit that it has some of the most masterful shots in all of Hitchcock's work, and definitley has one of Bergman's and Grant's best performances.
I don't know, there was just something about it that made me hesitate at comparing it to the Master's greatest.

Alright come at me.

Don't feel bad Daniel, why would we come at you? I love Hitch, and I have loads of favourites, but Notorious isn't one of them. I like it immensely, but I prefer Suspicion, which I believe lots of people don't like as the ending is changed from the book, to appease the studio who couldn't take Grant as a murderer. The book it's based on is exceptional actually, one of the best crime books ever written, but I love the film. Each to his own.

Favorite Hitchcock films, in order:

1. Notorious
2. Dial M For Murder
3. Rear Window
4. Rope
5. Vertigo
6. Strangers on a Train
7. Shadow of a Doubt
8. Spellbound
9. Suspicion
10. To Catch A Thief
11. North By Northwest
12. 39 Steps
13. Mr And Mrs Smith
14. The Birds
15. The Lady Vanishes

and if anyone disagrees, I'll explain my reasoning for the placements at length.

EDIT: Cary Grant and Joan Fontaine are AMAZING in Suspicion btw, it's one of my favorite films, it is only so low because Hitchcock has so many other wonderful films.

Even though, I did see an interview with Pat Hichcock (not long ago on TV) and she said that Notorious was her father's favorite film, I would agree with Daniel, as far as saying it's probably not my alltime favorite of the master film maker. As you said, Daniel, it does have some of the best angled shots and that one scene, when the camera pans down to Ingrid's hand holding the key is brilliant. The acting and little nuances in the acting is also amazing. I think my favorite H film would have to be Rear Window. I love all his films (Mathor's list pretty much would match my own); I am not sure if I can come up with a list in order, of which I like one better than another, simply because I find that my favorites change from time to time. The more I have watched Notorious, the more I liked it; but I must admit on first viewing, I was not sure I agreed with Hitchcock, that it was his finest film. I do think it's in the top 10 best! Beyond that, I don't think I can rate it. I likedSuspicion as well; Joan Fountaine is marvelous in that film, as she always is. I also love Dial M for Murder.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mathor

Favorite Hitchcock films, in order:

1. Notorious
2. Dial M For Murder
3. Rear Window
4. Rope
5. Vertigo
6. Strangers on a Train
7. Shadow of a Doubt
8. Spellbound
9. Suspicion
10. To Catch A Thief
11. North By Northwest
12. 39 Steps
13. Mr And Mrs Smith
14. The Birds
15. The Lady Vanishes

and if anyone disagrees, I'll explain my reasoning for the placements at length.

EDIT: Cary Grant and Joan Fontaine are AMAZING in Suspicion btw, it's one of my favorite films, it is only so low because Hitchcock has so many other wonderful films.

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I agree with pretty much anything on the list (Although I would never rank To Catch a Thief above North by Northwest, but that's just me). I looove The 39 Steps and The Lady Vanishes, certainly underrated gems of the Master's early years.

I recently saw Marnine, what did you guys think of that?

Btw, my favorite Hitchcock film would have to be any of the following:
Vertigo
North by Northwest
Psycho
Shadow of a Doubt
The 39 Steps
The Lady Vanishes
Rear Window

It's really hard to rank the films, because in all honesty the 15 I listed are pretty much evenly matched. Everyone of his films is so perfect. The 9th one on my list is Spellbound, another one of my favorite films. I mean, Salvador Dali and Hitchcock collaborating in surrealistic dream sequences?!?!

EDIT:

Sorry that last link was wrong, here is the real one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_y6vdMjk0M

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mathor

It's really hard to rank the films, because in all honesty the 15 I listed are pretty much evenly matched. Everyone of his films is so perfect. The 9th one on my list is Spellbound, another one of my favorite films. I mean, Salvador Dali and Hitchcock collaborating in surrealistic dream sequences?!?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht--g...eature=related

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I've heard of the collaboration, but I've never seen the film. Vertigo had some truly great dream sequences, and so when you combine Dali with Hitchcock, you are bound to get something stunning.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DanielBenoit

I've heard of the collaboration, but I've never seen the film. Vertigo had some truly great dream sequences, and so when you combine Dali with Hitchcock, you are bound to get something stunning.

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First reason, actually that I bought the film was to see the Dali sequences. I saw them at the Dali exhibit in Philadephia about 3 yrs or so ago and thought they were pretty interesting. By the way, Amazing exhibit! As both of you said, you can't beat it when meshing the two great minds and artist's work together. I love the film Suspicion. Also, the two leads are just amazing; how can one beat Bergman and Gregory Peck together? That's just it with Hitchcock; he always got the best actors for his roles. They seemed perfect for the characters they played and the women were stunning. The men were pretty fine as well! They all had a lot of class!

I just bought Vertigo and it came a few days ago; I think I will be watching that film tonight - been awhile and I know it's great.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mathor

It's really hard to rank the films, because in all honesty the 15 I listed are pretty much evenly matched. Everyone of his films is so perfect. The 9th one on my list is Spellbound, another one of my favorite films. I mean, Salvador Dali and Hitchcock collaborating in surrealistic dream sequences?!?!

EDIT:

Sorry that last link was wrong, here is the real one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_y6vdMjk0M

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**Hitch + Dali= My Heart Skipping beats**

My list is as follows:

Dial M for Murder
The Lady Vanishes
and a tie for third for:

Notorious
Rope
Rear Window
Spellbound

Why am I bothering. See Mathor's list. We've discussed Hitchcock at length.

But we're digressing from the point here: Were we not discussing the merits of Notorious as one of Hitchcock's best films? All of us saying "Ooh I love Hitchcock over and over doesn't really accomplish much haha.

I'm certainly a Hitchcock fanatic myself. As a visual artist I could not help but be stunned by the thought that went into the camera angles, cinematography, lighting, color and other visual elements of his films. The list presented by Mathor certainly covers the major films in his oeuvre... and one might argue endlessly as to which is the best. I myself lean toward Vertigo and Rear Window... but I would not underestimate Psycho (which is conspicuously absent from the list). I cannot but appreciate the master's nod toward the genre of cheap horror flicks ala The Night of the Living Dead, the brilliant score by Bernard Hermann and the perfect choice of Anthony Perkins. Another film I see missing... and which I haven't seen in quite some time... is I Confess... which I found quite strong.

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Originally Posted by *Classic*Charm*

All of us saying "Ooh I love Hitchcock over and over doesn't really accomplish much haha.

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We cannot help ourselves :lol:
(Plus it divertes people away from my public beating :nod:)

Off topic I know but right now I am watching Vertigo and loving it! I forgot how enthralling it was. Wowy, so good so far.

I rate Suspicion highly more because of what Hitchcock wanted to do with it more than what it actually ends up being; when Grant is allowed to go against type he is quite credible as a heinous bastard, and you see this in the film despite the studio tampering, the manipulation and control he exerts over Fontaine is really disciplined work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jozanny

I rate Suspicion highly more because of what Hitchcock wanted to do with it more than what it actually ends up being; when Grant is allowed to go against type he is quite credible as a heinous bastard, and you see this in the film despite the studio tampering, the manipulation and control he exerts over Fontaine is really disciplined work.

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I agree Jozanny. He's excellent in the role. One of my all-time favourite films.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stlukesguild

I'm certainly a Hitchcock fanatic myself. As a visual artist I could not help but be stunned by the thought that went into the camera angles, cinematography, lighting, color and other visual elements of his films. The list presented by Mathor certainly covers the major films in his oeuvre... and one might argue endlessly as to which is the best. I myself lean toward Vertigo and Rear Window... but I would not underestimate Psycho (which is conspicuously absent from the list). I cannot but appreciate the master's nod toward the genre of cheap horror flicks ala The Night of the Living Dead, the brilliant score by Bernard Hermann and the perfect choice of Anthony Perkins. Another film I see missing... and which I haven't seen in quite some time... is I Confess... which I found quite strong.

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I completely agree with I Confess. That is one I regret not adding to the list. Psycho is a great film, though i've always seen it as more of an exercise. It has some great shots and some great elements, but I think it hardly compares to movies like Vertigo. It was his attempt at making a cheap horror flick that would also completely shock all of his viewers. It worked pretty astoundingly, as today it is seen as kind of the precursor to the 70's grindhouse horror era.

The birds is my personal favorite.
As for the rest, in no particular order
Rear Window
Vertigo
Psycho
North by Northwest
That's my top five.

Daniel mentioned having seenMarnie-that is my favorite Hitchcock movie.