It's been suggested by quite a few people that some are. I'm not convinced by the Cassius/Brutus thing but Iago certainly seems to be.
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It's been suggested by quite a few people that some are. I'm not convinced by the Cassius/Brutus thing but Iago certainly seems to be.
I don't think it really matters, and I haven't read Othello yet (I know, I am the worst person in the world!), but it is clear that there are homoerotic themes throughout the sonnets.
Many of my friends have read shakespeare and have quoted on a lot of his characters being portrayed as gay. So I cannot rightly say if this is true or not as I don't read much shakespeare at all, but as Daniel says, does it really matter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielBenoit
The way Shakespeare expresses his admiration for the Fair Youth in his sonnets, reminds me of Basil Hallward who becomes infatuated with Dorian's beauty.
Eh. Ultimately, it's a matter of interpretation. Realistically, we have no way of determining the precise sexual orientation of Iago or others of his characters who seem to stray from the period norm in this respect. Just another strand of human essence that may or may not be pulled and emphasized in the body of Shakespeare's works depending on the interests of the reader/hearer.
The Rosalind/Celia relationship in As You Like It definitely draws attention.
Quote:
whose loves
Are dearer than the natural bond of sisters.
People are always drawing a reference to Iago having a thing for Othello. I don't see it at all. If you examine the text Iago indicates his jealousy of Casio; also he intimates that he thinks Othello has done service between his sheets with his wife; at one point he even claims to hate the Moor. I don't think this points to a love for him at all. He is happy to see his demise. I think with Iago the whole deal is power and importance.
Daniel, You're not the worst person in the world..haha...but you should read the play; it is one of my favorites and I love seeing it performed. I own the Parker directed version and like it very much. I watch it often. It fascinates me.
I can't get the Parker directed version. :(
There's certainly hints that Iago might have feelings towards Othello in that film and in the play when he makes up that weird lie about Cassio mistaking Iago for Desdemona in his sleep.
Apparantly Pandarus and Troilus have something going on too?
There is a great deal of closeness among several of the women characters. But none that I recall are explicitly described as homosexual.
By contrast, in Hamlet where the courtier Osric was called ''waterfly'' because his acts were effeminate. See Act V, Sc ii.
There was also a provocative character who complained of the heat and scenery after a battle in one of the histories and his effete conduct angered Hotspur. Because of this the latter failed to show proper deference to the king (sorry, can't remember which one).
And how about the Duke in Mid Summer Night's Dream? That was said by some to be rather effeminate as well.
Apparantly there's something between Pandarus and Troilus?
We have to remember that the concept of someone being a homosexual as we conceive of it today did not exist in Shakespeare's time. I agree that homoeroticism is present in a lot of his work, but we just have to be careful not to misinterpret actions from our modern western gender perspective. Effeminacy could be used to imply character flaws that were associated with women.
It often falls into the director's choice. I've seen Hamlet/Horatio (actually works), Iago/Othello (don't really buy into that), Hal/Falstaff (doesn't work), Antonio/Bassanio (justified)... the list goes on.
I think that homosexual overtones are much more overt in Marlowe's works... particularly in Edward II, but also in Faustus to a strong degree.
Sir Toby/Sir Andrew, maybe?
in relation to Iago, we can interperate him as homosexual, but we can only say this due to his jealousy of cassio and his misogynyQuote:
Originally Posted by OrphanPip
It is fascinating, but it also has some bad points. I won't go into that, though, unless you would have me do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
Also, when he says, "I am your own for ever." If you don't have access to the film, I found the scene on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhx7LCBHwLc (I actually used this very clip in a group presentation on Othello yesterday). Clearly, Branagh's intention was to portray Iago thus.Quote:
Originally Posted by kelby_lake
And here are some quotes:
There are a kind of men so loose of soul,
That in their sleeps will mutter their affairs:
One of this kind is Cassio:
In sleep I heard him say 'Sweet Desdemona,
Let us be wary, let us hide our loves;'
Nothing too exciting, yet...
And then, sir, would he gripe and wring my hand,
Cry 'O sweet creature!' and then kiss me hard,
As if he pluck'd up kisses by the roots
That grew upon my lips: then laid his leg
Over my thigh, and sigh'd, and kiss'd; and then
Cried 'Cursed fate that gave thee to the Moor!'
Oh la la! Is Iago playing out a fantasy here?
And then, later on:
Both kneeling
IAGO:Witness, you ever-burning lights above,
You elements that clip us round about,
Witness that here Iago doth give up
The execution of his wit, hands, heart,
To wrong'd Othello's service! [...]
They rise
OTHELLO: I greet thy love,
Not with vain thanks, but with acceptance bounteous,
[...]
Now art thou my lieutenant.
IAGO: I am your own for ever.
Peter Saccio, a Shakespeare scholar, has suggested that this is almost like a marriage scene.
So, yeah, there's ample evidence to suggest such an interpretation.
This is true and needs to be remembered. The "homosexual" was invented in the late 1800s and did not exist as an identity in the same way it does today. Before this time (in the western context at least) it was seen as a deviation and a crime, but it did not form part of the identity of the person. A person might commit "homosexual acts" but they were likely to be seen as one of deviations in the same way as someone might rob or commit fraud. Having said that there is nothing wrong with arguing a position that this or that character might have been "gay" as we see it today as long as we appreciate the difference of the context.Quote:
Originally Posted by OrphanPip
Yes I would say that Edward II is extremely overt to put it mildly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokasenna
how does it matter?
How does what matter? That somebody is or isn't homosexual?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrig
Of course it doesn't matter on a practical level, nobody here is suggesting it does I think, but as people who are interested in literature, in character and motivation, then it might well do.
Observing what is not said in the text can be as interesting (or more interesting) than what is said. Besides, there is a whole branch of theory, Queer Theory or Lesbian Theory the followers of which are very interested in such questions indeed.
It's just interestingQuote:
Originally Posted by Mrig
Also, if anyone's concerned with motives, such as those of Iago, one might ask such a question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrig
Indeed. It would certainly change the perception of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dori
The answer to the original question is no.
Elaborate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermac
Yep. Shakespeare wasn't entirely ignorant of the fact that men would be playing all of the parts-hence a lot of cross-dressing and innuendo. You've got a lot of gender-playing in the sonnets too, especially sonnet 20.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dori
What do you think of the fact that the majority of his sonnets are to a man?
it should be emphasized again that we are in the 21st century with a different intepretation of masculine love from the Elizabethan age. The Shakespeare Plays are essentially rewrites of earlier Plays with the tragedy drama and characters added by the Shakespeare collaboration. remember also no females acting in any of the Plays and this was Shakes way of addressing the balance somewhat. Nobody can really suggest from what is known of William Shakespeare the actor from Stratford that he was ever gay, not fromthe likes of Field, Drayton, Burbage and Jonson who knew him as well as anyone, but we cannot say the same of Francis Bacon and to some extent, until his disappearance in 1593, Kit Marlowe. As many times as we re=read the Sonnets, nothing convinces me that Williams love for another William, the young William Herbert, was anything more than an older mans admiration (and envy) of a younger more handsome man who reminded him perhaps of who he was in his own adolescence.
He does call him 'lovely boy' though, which is slightly creepy.
I'd like to recommend Wilde's Portrait of W. H., it is about an interesting theory about the person to whom Shakespeare dedicates his sonnets. Although, I agree in what some people here has already said about the idea of homosexuality being not contemporary to Shakespeare.
The only conclusion one can do draw from this is that Shakespear was gay himself why else would he involve himself with portraying gay characters?Quote:
Originally Posted by Maryd.
charity begins at home they say.
Yes, i can see in 100 years people in Litnet of future arguing if Shakespeare was heterosexual and someone suggestion to the horror of other members that he was obviously heterosexual, otherwise why would he portrait heterosexual characters.