Being Humble

This is something I've been kind of pondering about for some time, though not recently. It's nothing significant, but I would like to know your opinion on this. When I sometimes talked to people, the conversation came to a point when we'd discuss stuff relating to ability such as in sports. Sometimes I'd ask "So you're pretty good in basketball, right?" , or something along those lines.(not the actual phrase, used as an example) I'd say this when I saw them do some stuff and the person seemed pretty good. They'd say "No, I'm not that good." "I'm bad" or something along those lines . When they say this(not just sports, i used it for general example), I get angry and don't really know why. For more specific example I was watching a dating show were three contestant conversate with the host and the person they want to get to know and maybe marry. One of the contestant was a beautiful woman who obvisouly had the highest possibility of winning because she was well liked by the guy who she was going for and the hosts. When asked what her probability fo winning was, she said "Well I think I did well and have a good chance but the other contestants also have good chances(which was obviosuly not the case). This didn't anger me THAT much, but i still kind of disliked what she said. Others though she was tact and well-spoken. I get where they are coming from, but I'm not sure why it doesn't seem like that to me.

Sorry for the grammar and stuff. I'm suppose to be doing hw now but decided to post this up.(usually I just come and read stuff without posting)

The question is(first message didn't get posted, so diff title), "When other people are humble, is it suppose to evoke negative emotions?"

i dont like humility either. just once i'd like to see an athlete point at himself rather than the sky after a brilliant play. Being humble is directly related to western morality. but the founder of our morality, jesus, wasnt humble at all, he was confident: "i'm the way, the light, the truth." so, what in the wide world of sports is with these humble bags acting like they're better than others not because of their actions, but bc of their lack of recognizing the superiority of their actions. its preposterous

Jesus said we should be humble. Also, it is not just western morality. Much of Eastern Europe is Christian.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by billyjack

i dont like humility either. just once i'd like to see an athlete point at himself rather than the sky after a brilliant play. Being humble is directly related to western morality. but the founder of our morality, jesus, wasnt humble at all, he was confident: "i'm the way, the light, the truth." so, what in the wide world of sports is with these humble bags acting like they're better than others not because of their actions, but bc of their lack of recognizing the superiority of their actions. its preposterous

---

This post makes little sense to me; care to elaborate?

And "Being humble is directly related to western morality." is a very bold statement to make.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by billyjack

i dont like humility either. just once i'd like to see an athlete point at himself rather than the sky after a brilliant play.

---

There are a few. Usain Bolt seems to be one who celebrates his own talent.

A lack of humility comes off as arrogance and while I'd say that most cultures (mostly thinking of America) admire confidence, arrogance is a big no-no. Most people seem to like a mix of the two. You have to be confident and sure of your abilities, but at least a slight dash of humility is necessary to be regarded with respect.
Let's be honest, it'd be pretty off-putting if an athlete held a press conference saying that he was the best running back in the history of football, regardless of whether or not it was a valid claim.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hurricane

A lack of humility comes off as arrogance and while I'd say that most cultures (mostly thinking of America) admire confidence, arrogance is a big no-no. Most people seem to like a mix of the two. You have to be confident and sure of your abilities, but at least a slight dash of humility is necessary to be regarded with respect.
Let's be honest, it'd be pretty off-putting if an athlete held a press conference saying that he was the best running back in the history of football, regardless of whether or not it was a valid claim.

---

That's exactly why people hated Ali - "I am the greatest ever!"

(he was right)

I loved it, but my other name is Arrogant_B_stard, so I might be a bit biased.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hurricane

Let's be honest, it'd be pretty off-putting if an athlete held a press conference saying that he was the best running back in the history of football, regardless of whether or not it was a valid claim.

---

Why so? If he’s widely regarded as such and has the stats to prove it I think it’d be a bit senseless to fault him for merely acknowledging as much himself. Even if Mr. Running Back wants to go on to misinterpret his athletic superiority as being emblematic of himself as a true deus mortalis, well, why should we talentless yokels who nonetheless know better not rather find ourselves (if we’re inclined to feel either one or the other way about it at all) amused by such endearing displays of naïveté? ;)

I think that among the really humble people, there can sometimes be a competition about being humble. The most humble are probably the ones who are still a bit surprised at their success, no matter how hard they've been working at it.

Interesting topic, and I think the answer seems more attributed to etiquette than anything else, such as philosophy, but perhaps ethics. So-called "proper etiquette," I feel, appears mostly learned and nurtured, based upon teachings beginning from childhood (such as covering your mouth when you cough or sneeze) and ending in the nature of the response of a receiver or observer (in saying "thank you" for a favor, the thus uttered-to may smile, nod, or respond "you're welcome"). These natures of human behavior can receive wide bias from age, culture, and country, not to mention that these commonly-accepted kind acts change with time periods (I have no idea how Chopin would have responded to a standing ovation and hooting applause in his time, as opposed to those acts seeming so common at other contemporary concerts to show gratitude and appreciation).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cossack

When other people are humble, is it suppose to evoke negative emotions?

---

Yes and no, in my opinion; it depends on the circumstances. One must consider that some individuals have difficulty accepting compliments; fulfilling a duty, and fulfilling it thoroughly and with precision, does not always require notification from an observer - if one fulfilling his/her duty expects such, it seems to me s/he performs those duties with the ulterior motives of rewards. In other words, in some cases, humility may mask awkwardness or flattery in receiving a compliment.
In the cases that you cited, that complimented individuals insulted themselves may seem out of that awkwardness, but also perhaps out of the desire for more, the desire for an observer to convince themselves of their greatness, which I think evoke positive emotions, yet with effort. If complimented individuals further complimented themselves, I would think that awkward for the complimenter; the person who complimented the other would think him/herself useless, as if complimented does not require the observer to realize his/her own greatness - this, as opposed to the former, would evoke negative emotions.
Sports seem common to cite on this thread, and, considering how competitive they get, I can think of no better example. Personally, I like baseball; in fact, I love it, and my testosterone levels have likely raised significantly since we approach the World Series next month. I frequently call Alex Rodriguez, Barry Bonds, Manny Ramirez, and Mark McGwire "pompous asses," because . . . well, they are/were (before retirement); they brag(ged) of their accomplishments and greatness every moment they get. What they have in common, other than using performance-enhancing drugs? They play well, even without steroids - really well. The problem? They know it, yet this does not even momentarily cease the quantity of compliments they receive(d), larger paychecks, high-end tradings and bartering, etc., subtracting even further from their humility. If a more mediocre player like Julio Lugo (sorry, Julio, I still like you) received the same quantity and quality of compliments as the former based upon his performance, he would likely feel flattered or in denial of your words.
Hence, it depends on the circumstances. Whether acting as humble or actually owning humble attributes, it can rely upon a knowledge of some sort of inferiority to others (such as comparing Julio Lugo to Alex Rodriguez), awkwardness in receiving a compliment for fulfilling one's duty, perhaps finding the compliment unnecessary, or . . . well, just fishing for more compliments or "stroking one's ego."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mono

Interesting topic, and I think the answer seems more attributed to etiquette than anything else, such as philosophy, but perhaps ethics. So-called "proper etiquette," I feel, appears mostly learned and nurtured, based upon teachings beginning from childhood (such as covering your mouth when you cough or sneeze) and ending in the nature of the response of a receiver or observer (in saying "thank you" for a favor, the thus uttered-to may smile, nod, or respond "you're welcome").

---

Indeed, we are bred to be well-mannered beings but, it seems, are ever beasts at heart. :p Par exemple - the apparent hypersensitivity which overcomes a great many people in response to any perceived transgression from even the most superficial of social interactions is often totally disproportionate to the relative harmlessness of the transgressions themselves; e.g., I hope that total stranger who didn’t say god bless you when I sneezed burns in hell FOREVER! :D

Quote:

---

Par exemple - the apparent hypersensitivity which overcomes a great many people in response to any perceived transgression from even the most superficial of social interactions is often totally disproportionate to the relative harmlessness of the transgressions themselves; e.g., I hope that total stranger who didn’t say god bless you when I sneezed burns in hell FOREVER!
Yesterday 01:35 PM

---

:lol: So true. I guess we expect people to go above and beyond with politeness. I mean, if someone holds open a door for you, you might think it's exceptionally nice, but if they don't, most people would find it quite rude and be offended.

As far as humility, if someone is extremely good at something, they probably know it. Viewers/fans know it. There's not really a point to hammering home that they're good, so I guess as a reaction to that they lean towards humility.
For that matter, some famous people could use a good dose of humility (lookin' at you, Kanye West...)

To begin with, you may dispense with the perfect grammar. I appreciate your idea and that is of far greater value. I imagine it is not a matter of humility as much as it may be the natural reaction of one who has often been accused of arrogance, and thus they attempt to overly correct themselves, or perhaps in my case it may not be that they honestly do not feel themselves as talented or beautiful as another because they honestly do not feel that they have a right to regard themselves highly.

We do not always know a person's history and often tend to view them for what they appear at the present moment. Example of this: I have had models, modeling agents and photographers ask me to enter the trade as a model. That is hardly something I feel adequate to do. Why? Because I spent many years being told I was not attractive and the culmination of that history is more of a daily reality to me than the fewer people who have contradicted it. In this I think you are an excellent person for becoming angry at such a thing, for we all need to hear praise and it seems that there is not enough of it in this world.

I greatly appreciate your sentiments!

Isidro

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Madame X

Indeed, we are bred to be well-mannered beings but, it seems, are ever beasts at heart. :p Par exemple - the apparent hypersensitivity which overcomes a great many people in response to any perceived transgression from even the most superficial of social interactions is often totally disproportionate to the relative harmlessness of the transgressions themselves; e.g., I hope that total stranger who didn’t say god bless you when I sneezed burns in hell FOREVER! :D

---

:lol:
I suppose I ought to thank you then, Madame X, for reading and referring to my post; if not, out of my own impoliteness, I should fear you may condemn me to hell. By thanking you, however, I do not want to subtract from the humble attributes you have demonstrated on the forums. Oh, decisions, decisions, to thank or not to thank!
Regardless, very true, that some have more social graces than others, but we ought not to place expectations fully upon others to superstitiously bless us after sneezing. This lack of common politeness need not always seem due to having more beastly characteristics (though I would naturally expect more from Abigail van Buren [the "Dear Abby" columnist] than from Charles Manson). What if the man who did not say "God bless you" on the commuter train after I sneezed considered himself an atheist? In his philosophy, stating "God bless you" would sound even more impolite by saying "may nothing bless you, nothing at all." :p
Nonetheless, lack of social graces can come in all shapes and forms, and reasons may come from, yes, I agree, more beastly attributes, or lack of care, preoccupation with some thing or another, etc. Personally, I try my hardest, always saying "Gesundheit" when someone sneezes, opening doors for others, always tipping honestly, saying "thank you" and "you're welcome," etc., but the unspoken policy of not expecting all such from others seems important to consider.

All I got to say is "Don't be so humble, you are not that great!"

Humbleness and humility are virtues and very subtle virtues. But these virtues are very thin and go of course against our evolutionary idea. Man has to be cruel, ruthless and well-bodied to fight or defend against invasions.

Humility is a great value but I side with Nietzsche to state that this is the morality of the slaves to rule over their masters or to influence their masters.

How can humility wok in this world rent with violence and it is really a disabling idea.

The world is a battle field and if you are befitted and well-equipped or armed you can survive. Darwin's theory always appeals to me that one has to be fittest to survive or else go lost in this battle with life.

I am a bit humbler and my parents had conditioned me to be so and I try to strip myself of all these externalizations but fail.

I do not mean I choose to be ruthless, but I do not want to show off or conceited or double standard.

Thanks for the input guys. Not all the things you posted I'm in agreement with, but there are some unique thoughts. Maybe I don't fully understand some of your ideas. Perhaps, probably the most accurate, is that the anger caused by other people's humbleness stems from some sort of personal moral dillema.

Humbleness is oftentimes likened to what Nietzsche said slave morality. Rulers are not humble and they fight and dominate and whereas the weak choicelessly stoops.

"When other people are humble, is it suppose to evoke negative emotions?"
Yes, people consider humbleness as a weakness so they try to abuse the humble one . Mom raised us to be sooooo humble . I think it was one of her mistakes. As Blazeofglory mentionned, sometimes it turns out to be the morality of slavery . When I grew up I rebelled against that feeling and tried to get rid of it because it did too much harm to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cossack

This is something I've been kind of pondering about for some time, though not recently. It's nothing significant, but I would like to know your opinion on this. When I sometimes talked to people, the conversation came to a point when we'd discuss stuff relating to ability such as in sports. Sometimes I'd ask "So you're pretty good in basketball, right?" , or something along those lines.(not the actual phrase, used as an example) I'd say this when I saw them do some stuff and the person seemed pretty good. They'd say "No, I'm not that good." "I'm bad" or something along those lines . When they say this(not just sports, i used it for general example), I get angry and don't really know why. For more specific example I was watching a dating show were three contestant conversate with the host and the person they want to get to know and maybe marry. One of the contestant was a beautiful woman who obvisouly had the highest possibility of winning because she was well liked by the guy who she was going for and the hosts. When asked what her probability fo winning was, she said "Well I think I did well and have a good chance but the other contestants also have good chances(which was obviosuly not the case). This didn't anger me THAT much, but i still kind of disliked what she said. Others though she was tact and well-spoken. I get where they are coming from, but I'm not sure why it doesn't seem like that to me.

Sorry for the grammar and stuff. I'm suppose to be doing hw now but decided to post this up.(usually I just come and read stuff without posting)

The question is(first message didn't get posted, so diff title), "When other people are humble, is it suppose to evoke negative emotions?"

---

Hehe.
Good point. I have to think a little bit... It is VERY good to think that kind of things, because it shows that you are aware about yourself. It is important. If i think this picture quickly, it looks a like you have sensitive instinct about other people. It reflects into you. If your self-esteem is strong, those kind of lines you mentioned can be sometimes very annoying. They are annoying, because you can see behind them. I really don´t personally like those ***-kissers. I DON´T mean that we don´t have to be kind & humble etc. It means, that we should be straight and honest. And perhaps it is good to notice, that normally people are not so accurate with their expression with words. If you work with literature, philosophy etc. your sense of words and meaning will get stronger - you will be more demanding. It takes self-control after all. From that base it is still too difficult to say anything sure, because there´s no enough information.

From the other side: Few things from my life. I just wrote in my newest book, that "It is difficult to be humble if you are gifted, and it is more difficult if you are not."

Ok. Here in Finland people has really weak self-respect, they are often envy, also.
If someone has good in something, it should be matter, that could be discussed about. (Think a novel like this; Modern day, and everyone want´s to be something, but no-one can admit it or tell it to another one, because there´s a lot of enviness etc...) Usually people think, that competition is ok, and our value as humans depends about that what we can create or how successful we are. That´s not true, of course. Competition has another very negative thing also; Several years ago individual could be enemy of society. Now society is enemy of individual. Looks like there every day less and less those people, who understands that it has no matter how much money or fame etc. individual can get - main question is, how close we can get in idea of humanity. But no! More work, more demanding, more everything!!!!!!!! More! More!

Then sometimes if someone realizes that this or that person has something very special, they try first deny it, then they try to put him/her down, then - if - they really are back against the wall, they are going to crawl.

To me it seems that all of those things you mentioned, exists because of bad or negative self-esteem. Am i right? Humbleness is important, but it CAN´T depend - like that that someone must deny who he is? In fact i readed bible sometime ago for my new book, and i noticed one thing; Christ was god´s son, but he said it ONLY when it was neccessery. And still there was those, who were envy to him.

Humble people have little space in this world

Being truly humble is being aware of one's relative insignificance in the face of nature's power.

The people who claim to be bad when they are good are probably just low on self-confidence and are looking for a morale boost. Yes, it is possible to be both brilliant and insecure at the same time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cossack

This is something I've been kind of pondering about for some time, though not recently. It's nothing significant, but I would like to know your opinion on this. When I sometimes talked to people, the conversation came to a point when we'd discuss stuff relating to ability such as in sports. Sometimes I'd ask "So you're pretty good in basketball, right?" , or something along those lines.(not the actual phrase, used as an example) I'd say this when I saw them do some stuff and the person seemed pretty good. They'd say "No, I'm not that good." "I'm bad" or something along those lines . When they say this(not just sports, i used it for general example), I get angry and don't really know why. For more specific example I was watching a dating show were three contestant conversate with the host and the person they want to get to know and maybe marry. One of the contestant was a beautiful woman who obvisouly had the highest possibility of winning because she was well liked by the guy who she was going for and the hosts. When asked what her probability fo winning was, she said "Well I think I did well and have a good chance but the other contestants also have good chances(which was obviosuly not the case). This didn't anger me THAT much, but i still kind of disliked what she said. Others though she was tact and well-spoken. I get where they are coming from, but I'm not sure why it doesn't seem like that to me.

Sorry for the grammar and stuff. I'm suppose to be doing hw now but decided to post this up.(usually I just come and read stuff without posting)

The question is(first message didn't get posted, so diff title), "When other people are humble, is it suppose to evoke negative emotions?"

---

I think the reason for your anger is not so much of their humility, but rather, their false humility. Denial of your own talent isn't humility. Real humility in the face of compliments would be to acknowledge your talent by recognising praise and thanking people for it. Also, humility isn't an act of self-denial as most people perceive it to be. Humility comes with confidence, not insecurity.

Just my $0.02

Cossack, you'd surely like me - when people say me that I am good, I laugh and then say - No, I am not good, I am the best. But well, humble people do not annoy me, but the phrase in my humble opinion does- usually people like this have that humble opinion in ton and will kill you if stand in their way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cossack

"When other people are humble, is it suppose to evoke negative emotions?"

---

I'm not aware of the science surrounding emotions and such (nor do I care to be), but it may be that there is no "supposed to happen," really. People feel differently, react differently, and are swept up, often, in things they don't understand.

I think the question I would ask myself is, "Is there any reason to think that humility is a virtue?" Many questions flow from that, but apart from a religious tradition that views humility as a virtue, I don't see why people should be humble. Blaze mentions Nietzsche above; biological reasons can probably be found in Darwinism and elsewhere, pointing to the idea that humility is something that just brings people down, and perhaps is fundamentally flawed (although I suspect examples could be found from biology pointing to opposite conclusions).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by billyjack

i dont like humility either. just once i'd like to see an athlete point at himself rather than the sky after a brilliant play. Being humble is directly related to western morality. but the founder of our morality, jesus, wasnt humble at all, he was confident: "i'm the way, the light, the truth." so, what in the wide world of sports is with these humble bags acting like they're better than others not because of their actions, but bc of their lack of recognizing the superiority of their actions. its preposterous

---

I agree that humility, at least in the Western world, is directly related to Christ's ethics, and his life and works.

Was Jesus always confident, or was he humble in many different instances throughout the Gospels? Apart from that, it would seem that Christ embodied the virtue of humility. From Phillipians:

"So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."

Hi,

My definition of humility is:


Mohandas K. Gandhi:

It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err.

and a poem by William WordsWorth

Written in Early Spring

I heard a thousand blended notes
While in a grove I sate reclined,
In that sweet mood when pleasant thoughts
Bring sad thoughts to the mind.

To her fair works did Nature link
The human soul that through me ran;
And much it grieved my heart to think
What Man has made of Man.

Through primrose tufts, in that sweet bower,
The periwinkle trail'd its wreaths;
And 'tis my faith that every flower
Enjoys the air it breathes.

The birds around me hopp'd and play'd,
Their thoughts I cannot measure,—
But the least motion which they made
It seem'd a thrill of pleasure.

The budding twigs spread out their fan
To catch the breezy air;
And I must think, do all I can,
That there was pleasure there.

If this belief from heaven be sent,
If such be Nature's holy plan,
Have I not reason to lament
What Man has made of Man?

MarkC