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I know there are many examples of this like Kent, Edgar, Lear running around naked with flowers.
But I'm not quite sure what these symbolize represent. I'll guess and say that clothing reflects values. Eg. Lear is the one with robes and crowns, but these keep him away from the truth, whereas Kent and Edgar are dressed poorly, yet they're the ones who are loyal, etc.........
Any ideas? Thanks in advanced!!
Could it be that the change of clothes expresses the fact that people look differently at them?
King Lear starts off as a king and his word is law and he considers himelf superior to the rest. As soon as he gets challenged by Kent, he turns him out. He is superior, as king, to his vassal Kent. When he takes off his clothes on the heath, he takes off his role of king, but of course not his mistake.
When Kent dresses up as servant, he really takes on the role of sunordinate, but does not relinquish his values (like Lear who takes off his clothes but does not realise his mistake). He will still serve his king, whether he wants that or not. But, crucially, Lear does not see him as a vassal who needs to obey him.
Edgar takes on the role of madman, but does not relinquish the affection for his father. The way he is treated by his brother Edmund (?) is so that he will loose his status as heir, but he does stay the son of his father. Edgar on the other hand takes on the role of heir, but is not his father's son.
Any more comments would be interesting, though!
Edmund?Quote:
Originally Posted by kiki1982
Clothes don't make a man.
I think that's pretty obvious, but nice ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by kiki1982
I was thinking along the same lines, but I would say that is the message Shakespeare is trying to get across, how it's about the inside, not the outside, etc....Quote:
Originally Posted by Gladys
What I'm having trouble with is finding out what the topic clothing/disguises represents. I have a few ideas, but very vague....
With the advent of storm, the finest raiments are worn by the likes of Edmund, Cornwall, Oswald, Goneril and Regan. A disguise of sorts?Quote:
Originally Posted by sodr2
That is right. I was writing too fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gladys
I understand that the good people wear poor clothing and vice versa, but what's the relation between this and the storm you've mentioned? I still don't get it the symbol though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gladys
And a disguise could of anyone's, it doesn't matter.
Bump..
I like where you are coming from with this argument, I would develop this idea further and possibly relate in to wealth. There are passages in the play where Lear comments that he can now see clearly due to the lack of crown and robe and it is not hard to read that representing wealth or status. As you pointed out the likes of Kent, Edgar (and don't forget my beloved Fool) can also see because they have not been blinded by wealth. You can go very far talking about wealth and power in Lear and how clothing can be read as a symbol of that wealth.Quote:
Originally Posted by sodr2
How rash to be naked in the storms of life!
Thanks Neely, but I don't want to go into wealth because that is a separate symbol not assigned to me by my teacher. But I guess I can take what you said:
"...can also see because they have not been blinded by wealth." And just change wealth to clothes which reflects their status?
And Gladys....I wonder if you were reincarnated from Elizabethan times. What does, "How rash to be naked in the storms of life!" mean? (I'm guessing it's a line from the play).
Yes but the clothing is directly symbolic of wealth and it naturally progresses from your opening thoughts:Quote:
Originally Posted by sodr2
Why do they keep him away from the truth? Is it because he has once been blinded by wealth and now only sees with nothing. His values are now in perspective? Take this bit with Lear talking to Gloucester:Quote:
Lear is the one with robes and crowns, but these keep him away from the truth
He sees "how this world goes" without being blinded by wealth, which is directly related to the clothing they are wearing.Quote:
No eyes in your head, nor no money in your purse? Your eyes are in a heavy case, your purse in a light; yet you see how this world goes.
However, there are millions of ways to answer your question it doesn't matter, it is up to you, your angle sounds fine, it's probably just that I wrote an essay thousands of years ago along the same lines and took a fancy to my particular thought. :)
I think clothing in King Lear can be contrasted with nakedness much as pretense/appearances can be contrasted with truth/reality. For example, most of the courtly characters are richly arrayed yet they lie (or are openly nasty) to Lear. In the big storm, Lear strips off his clothes as a way of metaphorically stripping off all the deception of courtly life...it's his (mad) way of trying to live truly; notice that he's also living in the elements (wind and rain) at this time...not within the court.
Here's a little discussion along the same lines: http://www.shmoop.com/literary-devic...-allegory.html
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely
Do you still have it with you?
p.s. Still open to ideas...
Ha, ha, I don't know, it's not for sale though for any price. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by sodr2
Alright fine.
All I need now is a good thesis.....but again I only have vague ideas....kinda like Cordelia, I can't put my thoughts into words.
Thing is clothing and disguises seem like separate symbols...I'm guessing that clothing symbolizes the social status of a person and disguises symbolize loyalty. If so, how would I incorporate these into one sentence (thesis). Theme would also be great in it (something like "Clothes don't make a man, or it's what's on the inside, not the outside, etc).
Bump...aaaany ideas....
Yes I like that bit very much.Quote:
Originally Posted by sodr2
Do you have to set your own question for this then in your thesis? I don't get why you have to put this into one question if not?
What do you mean? I don't have to make a question, I have to make up a thesis! My teacher said that it has to incorporate theme, character, symbolism, all this stuff and I can't figure out the ultimate thesis, I barely know what clothing/disguises symbolize exactly...does it represent social status, loyalty, seeing the truth, all of the above...?
No, I just wondered what you meant by saying that it had to be in one sentence, no worries. Though yes you are right:Quote:
Originally Posted by sodr2
All of those things and probably many, many more. It can symbolize what you want it to as long as your argument is strong, and yours is in this case I would say.Quote:
does it represent social status, loyalty, seeing the truth, all of the above...?
Good luck with it, I'm sure you will do fine. :thumbs_up
One word: thesis.
In your opinion, what does it best represent? Or better yet, how do you think I can incorporate all three points (social status, loyalty, seeing the truth) into one sentence, so I can look for evidence to back it up?
Basically I need something like: the clothes symbolizing social status reflects a person's true values and leads them to seeing the truth...
To be specific, the thesis has to include what it symbolizes, theme and character. 3 clause, so something like "this happens because of this which leads them to this."
Bump.......looking for any suggestions...
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