Superman or Batman Poll

Ok, some of you are thinking "what??? This is a LITERATURE forum. We have no room for comic-strip super heroes here!" Well, to you I say "Cursed be he (or she) that thinks graphic novels arn't literature!" And also "Bite my bag, you!" So on to the debate!

The Dark Knight takes it for me. He has a sinister dark side which makes him more realistic as a person, and more scary to villianous criminals who lurk in Gotham's deapths. Also he is but a man, while Supe's is an alien from Krypton who has natural super powers, the big Cheater! Does anyone remember when Superman and Batman fought and Batman won? That was frickity-wicked sweet. Go Batz!

However, Superman is intreguing for all the reasons that Bill Rattles off in 'Kill Bill, Vol. 2'. In case you havn't seen Vol. 2,... WHAT?!?!? You havn't seen Vol. 2?!?!?! Stop reading this useless waste of internet bandwidth and go watch Vol. 2 right now!!!

For me, it's always been Superman. Simply because he simply IS super. He did not acquire his powers as a result of an accident by luck (or tough luck?) or he does not need the technology and gadgets to make him 'super'. If you take away Batman's mask and toys away, he will be just another man. Pffttt! :p

PS: I haven't seen Batman vs Superman. 'Batman won' says you? What an outrage! I bet it was a publicity stunt by the Batman team!

I'd have to go with Batman, like kik said he has a darker side, he's mysterious. Superman is too good, a goody-two-shoes even. Plus Batman has a more intriguing costume...

Since childhood I have always adored both, but thought more highly of Batman. True, Superman has some astounding super-powers, similar to Spiderman, Wonderwoman, Flash, etc., but Batman defeats his enemies with his cunning genius of inventing these cool gadgets, and, like Superman, still manages to hide his real identity.

Superman, I find his character to be more interesting. He has a far more mysterious past. He is also a prime example of what is wrong in society through his true costume "Clark Kent".

OK, this is about comparing characters. IMO (as far as I know) Superman uses less supporting equipments to support his actions. Batman has those stuffs (mobile, special weapons, etc). So IMO (again) Superman has better quality as a hero than Batman. :nod:

Batman has to work his butt off in order to be super. Not so with the alian from Krypton. I vote for the local working stiff everytime, because he is the 'real' hero.

Batman.
He is a superhero without actual super powers; sure he has money, technology, and extraordinary physical and mental characters, but no super powers.

He is constantly balancing on the edge between "good" and "evil", if he had to do something illegal, or brutal to dispose of one of his enemies he would do it. He is a more complex character…

Also the twisted opponents he has, the surreal Gotham and the dark atmosphere, seem both more fantastic and more realistic to me.

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Originally Posted by RyuKid

Superman, I find his character to be more interesting. He has a far more mysterious past. He is also a prime example of what is wrong in society through his true costume "Clark Kent".

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HEAR, HEAR!!! :D

Batman.

Superman was born into greatness - with his powers, he would either be protector or ruler of Earth. Batman, on the other hand, could probably have been much easier corrupted than turned do-gooder by having nothing but a fortune and a haunting past, yet he overcomes this to try to make the world a better place.

Plus Batman's costume has gotten a lot better since the 60s or 70s or whenever. Whenever I've seen it, Superman's has always still been prancy tights and a cape, bright-*** blue and red. Get with the times! At least pretend you have some need for subtlety.

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Originally Posted by GreenDog

Batman.
He is a superhero without actual super powers; sure he has money, technology, and extraordinary physical and mental characters, but no super powers.

He is constantly balancing on the edge between "good" and "evil", if he had to do something illegal, or brutal to dispose of one of his enemies he would do it. He is a more complex character…

Also the twisted opponents he has, the surreal Gotham and the dark atmosphere, seem both more fantastic and more realistic to me.

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I totally agree, he wasn't bit by a spider or is from another planet or something like that. He worked for his 'powers' and his money and the technology is what keeps him in the fight.

Batman, all the way, by far.
Curious people might want to check out The Dark Knight Returns, by Frank Miller, for a glance at one of their fights. And guess who wins? ;)

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Originally Posted by Scherazade

HEAR, HEAR!!!

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I am wondering if it is more correct to say "Here, Here!!!" analogous to "There, there" (as opposed to "Their, Their")

But, if I am in error, you may justifiably rebuke me with a stern, "Now! Now!"

Well, someone who knows far more than I do has just informed me that it is indeed, "Hear Hear" ... which looks so peculiar to me in print. I have only heard the expression said on television.

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhear.html

The correct term is, "hear, hear!" It is an abbreviation for "hear, all ye good people, hear what this brilliant and eloquent speaker has to say!"

And, of course, we must never miss an opportunity to be Biblical:

http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/inde...?date=19980304

"Then cried a wise woman out of the city, Hear, hear" (King James Bible, 2 Samuel xx 16).

OK, to prevent further confusion:

"Hear, all ye good people, hear what this brilliant and eloquent speaker has to say!" :D

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Originally Posted by RyuKid

Superman, I find his character to be more interesting. He has a far more mysterious past. He is also a prime example of what is wrong in society through his true costume "Clark Kent".

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C'mon, mysterious past????? He came in an alien spaceship, which is a very common origin for superheroes, and I can give you a list of those if you're interested. Batman is an unique character, Superman is not, there are lots of chracaters very similar to him (both powers and character wise).

I think Batman got many supporters cause he's 100% human, which perhaps leads people to fantasize that wish they could be like him...

Just babbling..;)

I agree with the supporters of Batman, for mostly the same reasons. As I almost posted in the 'favorite character' thread, I'm a dedicated fan of the reluctant hero, which batman is imo. Superman is a hero because of his powers; he can, so he does. Batman is a hero because of the slaying of his parents - which you may say is voluntary, but I think it's a psychological compulsion for him. Batman would prefer to be normal, live a normal life, and let the police handle the criminals, but since his family was taken from him he can no longer have a normal life. He has several major character flaws as a human being, but he makes up for it by fighting evil. Superman is just too perfect - very unrealistic.

Batman... because he's more sneaky.

Like Sam Fisher.

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Originally Posted by RyuKid

Superman, I find his character to be more interesting. He has a far more mysterious past. He is also a prime example of what is wrong in society through his true costume "Clark Kent".

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I want to echo Sher's "hear, hear!" but Ryukid's comment leaves me wanting an explanation. Is alter ego, "Clark Kent" too afraid of involvement in others lives? Is Kent feckless, prefers not to get invovled, turns a blind eye to anything that does not turn him a profit in some manner? Or is Kent only a notoriously bad dresser? What exactly is Clark Kent a metaphor.

*nods to Sub for the psychological insight into my day*


*contemplates last comment in light of Fool's snappy insight...*

I believe Superman's greatness lies a lot with his Clark Kent alterego. When he does not dress up in his tights and cape to save the world or fight with the evil, he does not demand attention. He prefers to lead a life in obscurity. He could very easily choose to make himself rich and lead a relatively easy life when he is off duty but, being the real great hero he is, he opts for the life of a nobody. He lives as Clark Kent:a geek, a 'loser' in the eyes of many. Although he doesn't have to, he wishes to see the world in the eyes of an ordinary man. And, that is, my friends, what I call real greatness! Not isolating himself from 'everyman', not choosing the easy way out. And his preference to be a 'Clark Kent' shows his humourous side as well, which is a very 'human' trait.

And as for those who criticise him for not having a darker side... Let's make no mistakes;Superman is no ordinary superhero. With his strength and powers, he is not allowed to have a darker side. He should not have a darker side. Can you imagine what would happen if he did? Who could stop him from corrupting all the way?

And what's our fascination with the darker side anyway? Why can't we be happy with goodness? Sub is right that we, knowing our own darkness only too well, would like to see that our heros are flawed too... Which says a lot for the state our world is in. We did deserve to be banished from the gardens of Heaven;we do deserve living in this world we have created. Because, it is clear that, we cannot live with 'goodness'. ;)

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

I believe Superman's greatness lies a lot with his Clark Kent alterego. urity. He could very easily choose to make himself rich and lead a relatively easy life when he is off duty but, being the real great hero he is, he opts for the life of a nobody. He lives as Clark Kent:a geek, a 'loser' in the eyes of many. Although he doesn't have to, he wishes to see the world in the eyes of an ordinary man. And, that is, my friends, what I call real greatness! Not isolating himself from 'everyman', not choosing the easy way out. And his preference to be a 'Clark Kent' shows his humourous side as well, which is a very 'human' trait.

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Yes, but I think you're approaching it the wrong way. He's not an alien that chooses to live and pass as a human being. He is a human being that chooses to accept and act accordingly to his alien nature. He was raised by humans as a baby, he was never really in touch with his original culture. When alone, he considers himself to be Clark Kent, not Superman. Batman on the other hand, he's the real one, Bruce Wayne is the facade, the one who pretends. In one of the Sandman's books, they meet for a moment in dreams, and they are portrayed in this way also.

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

And as for those who criticise him for not having a darker side... Let's make no mistakes;Superman is no ordinary superhero. With his strength and powers, he is not allowed to have a darker side. He should not have a darker side. Can you imagine what would happen if he did? Who could stop him from corrupting all the way?

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He has a darker side, he killed 3 villains who had his same powers in order to stop them. And regarding the other issue, Batman did. :nod:

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

And what's our fascination with the darker side anyway? Why can't we be happy with goodness?

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Not with the dark side, with the resistance to it. Batman could've taken the fall any minute, taking his revenge way far (think of the Punisher, for instance), but he never did. He deals with it every night, and comes home unchanged in his resolve.

Damn, I look like a comic nerd. :goof:

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

I believe Superman's greatness lies a lot with his Clark Kent alterego. When he does not dress up in his tights and cape to save the world or fight with the evil, he does not demand attention. He prefers to lead a life in obscurity. He could very easily choose to make himself rich and lead a relatively easy life when he is off duty but, being the real great hero he is, he opts for the life of a nobody. He lives as Clark Kent:a geek, a 'loser' in the eyes of many. Although he doesn't have to, he wishes to see the world in the eyes of an ordinary man. And, that is, my friends, what I call real greatness! Not isolating himself from 'everyman', not choosing the easy way out. And his preference to be a 'Clark Kent' shows his humourous side as well, which is a very 'human' trait.

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Supe's alter ego is significant, but I don't think it is quite the way you see it as. Check out Tarrintino's critique of Superman in Kill Bill (I looked for the script so I could quote it, but this silly library comp. doesn't have acrobat and the only format I could find was PDF :(). Superman is who he is. Clark Kent is his 'alter ego', which is the opposite of most hero's. When they 'become' heroes, they put on a costume. Superman's 'costume' was in his spacecraft with him. He dresses up to fit in. Which means that Clark Kent is his analysis of the human race. That's how he sees us, dorky, weak, and awkward. It's not that thats who he would prefer to be, because really he doesn't have to put on his red & yellow and fly around looking for injustice to right, its just what he does. Also it always pissed me off that nobody noticed that Clark was just superman with glasses :mad: ! I mean seriously! He didn't have any kind of disguise! With Superman's celebrity status, couldn't any idiot say, gee Clark, you look exactly like Superman! Especially Lois who was Clark's partner (in the newspaper) and did some intimate in-depth interviews with Superman. She didn't know for YEARS! I mean, COME ON!!! YEACH!!! :rage: .

Also, the Batman writers are just better. Look at his villians, storylines, surroundings, psychology, etc... This is some good literature, while Superman comics rely more on 'look how cool and good and super Superman is!' :goof:

Wow!! Comics, literature.....man oh man!~!!!!, we've got it all!!!!

YEAH BABY!!!! And if you care to peruse the poll. Batman is kicking Superman's buns of steel!!! Go Batty!!!

Boys, boys, boys...

I am so sad to see how misguided you are... I don't know from where to begin really...

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Originally Posted by crisaor

He is a human being that chooses to accept and act accordingly to his alien nature. He was raised by humans as a baby, he was never really in touch with his original culture.

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Superman IS an alien. Think of Mowgli, think of Tarzan. Because they were raised by animals, are they not humanbeings anymore? Superman might be raised by humans but he still is an alien. He loves this planet and its people so much that he tries to live like one of us and, I repeat, he does not choose to benefit from his powers to lead an easy life.

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Originally Posted by iwilkiku

Which means that Clark Kent is his analysis of the human race. That's how he sees us, dorky, weak, and awkward.

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He is just wants to be one of us. Look at this site;look around you. His analysis is that far off really? ;) Especially if people around him fail to realise that he is Superman for so long? ;) It is not really his fault that people fail to recognise him now, is it?

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Originally Posted by crisaor

He has a darker side, he killed 3 villains who had his same powers in order to stop them.

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I am not sure if killing villains who trying to take over the earth would be considered as having a dark side but OK then. He does have a darker side too... which he puts in good use.

I really did not want to target Batman while promoting Superman but since everyone else is doing it...

Who is Batman? Bruce Wayne. Who is Bruce Wayne? A rich man who is very bitter about his parents' death and ever since who has not been able to have proper social relationships. He shuts himself away from the people whom he tries to 'protect'. Come on now! You say Superman depicts humans as geeks but Batman cannot bring himself to have a normal relationship with them unless he pretends to be someone else. Someone much superior and their 'hero'. What does that say about the way he actually sees the ordinary people?

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Originally Posted by baddad

And if you care to peruse the poll. Batman is kicking Superman's buns of steel!!! Go Batty!!!

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The poll result only shows me that so many are misguided;so many of us cannot accept or face the fact that there might be someone out there;someone who do not have our human weaknesses and shortcomings. Thus, many choose to call someone like themselves a superhero. Which is ironic, isn't it?

I hate superhero's but if I had to choose the one I liked best, it would ahve to be Batman aka Bizzle Mizzle.

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

Superman IS an alien. Think of Mowgli, think of Tarzan. Because they were raised by animals, are they not humanbeings anymore? Superman might be raised by humans but he still is an alien. He loves this planet and its people so much that he tries to live like one of us and, I repeat, he does not choose to benefit from his powers to lead an easy life.

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It appears I'm not the only one "misguided". Does Mowgli behave like a human? You know many humans who befriend a panther? Does Tarzan behave like the other humans that go hunt in the jungle? Does he not consider apes as his brothers instead of other humans? Superman considers himself to be human, he treats other people as his peers. If everything was fine, he'd be happy to be Clark Kent forever. Have you ever read any Superman comics at all?

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

I am not sure if killing villains who trying to take over the earth would be considered as having a dark side but OK then. He does have a darker side too... which he puts in good use.

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So, killing does not constitute a dark side to you, but wearing a black cape and acting scary does. :confused: I'm astonished at your superhero parameters.

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

The poll result only shows me that so many are misguided;so many of us cannot accept or face the fact that there might be someone out there;someone who do not have our human weaknesses and shortcomings. Thus, many choose to call someone like themselves a superhero. Which is ironic, isn't it?

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Since you appear to be so rid of "misguidance", next time try using positive arguments to describe your tastes instead of bashing others in order to do so.

Crisaor,

I apologise. I did not realise that 'comics' and Batman meant so much to you. Meanwhile, you might like to check this . One of the nicest words that I like in English.

I'd rather you wouldn't make false apologies. Or at least, not making fun of people at the same time.

:lol::lol::lol: This is great! But seriously... Crisaor, I havn't read much comics in YEARS, but when I was into them, I only remember Superman killing 2 villians: Cyborg and Conduit. Am I missing somthing? Did he have another run-in with Doomsday?

Scheherazade, Touche' on the rich guy thing! Good point, but not good enough to sway my loyalty to the Dark Knight! :D ... Not to mention discredit all of the fantastic arguements offered by Cris and myself! :cool: And besides, the poll trumps all. Everyone put your faith and trust in the infallable poll :angel:

Sher my friend, loved your link.......but bow to the poll...."the Claw!!!, the Claw!!!" *wonders if anyone else noticed the fundamentalists in the arcade machine in 'Toy Story'*

it might be interesting to see which percentage of each sex voted for each candidate.

cranky pants ;)

JK Cris

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Originally Posted by crisaor

I'd rather you wouldn't make false apologies. Or at least, not making fun of people at the same time.

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Originally Posted by IWilKikU

Everyone put your faith and trust in the infallable poll

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Sure, why not? Time and again, the history has already proved that THE best man always wins the polls/votes/elections anyway! ;)

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Originally Posted by baddad

Sher my friend, loved your link.......but bow to the poll...."

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*edit*

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Originally Posted by Fool

it might be interesting to see which percentage of each sex voted for each candidate.

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Interesting point, Fool. Seems like of those who voted for Superman, 66 % are female whereas only 13 % of those who voted for Batman are female. (I apologise if I misjudged anyone's gender! :) )

So maybe boys idolise the gadget loving Bruce Wayne more! *does NOT comment on this* :D

Cris, just something about 'acting human'... what's wrong with human befriending panthers? Or any other animals? Ever heard of Monty Roberts? Does him 'befriending' horses make him a horse? Are you actually saying Tarzan and Maugli are not humans?

Oh, there's nothing wrong with that, in fact I wish I could do it. But what I meant was that both Tarzan and Mowgli can't be consider 'human' (not in the literal sense, but in the metaphorical one) because neither of them acts like one; because they're clearly something else than humans, since they posess unique traits that no other normal person does (in this case, animal kindship/friendship); and because neither of them perceives himself to be human, to be part of the humanity, of the civilization, in their mind, they belong to the jungle, that's their habitat, it's what they know.

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Crisaor, I havn't read much comics in YEARS, but when I was into them, I only remember Superman killing 2 villians: Cyborg and Conduit. Am I missing somthing? Did he have another run-in with Doomsday?

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Neither have I. But I can tell you that he didn't kill Cyborg, supposedly he can't die. Superman had in fact another run-in with Doomsday (apart from the Death of Superman, if that's the one you're referring to), which is called Superman/Doomsday: Hunter/Prey, and it's pretty neat, or at least, it was when I read it, when I was 15 or so. In fact, Cyborg makes an appearace in it. The villains I referred to were also kryptonians I think, and Superman killed them using an alternate form of kryptonite to which he was immune. I couldn't tell you in which magazine even if I remembered. I'll have to get a raincheck on that one.

i really lack the patience and time to read all this, but one thing's sure: i like batman ever since i was in primary school, watching cartoons on cartoon network even though i didn't understand much (my english was limited to "this is a dog. that is a cat" at the time), and that's because he doesn't have any super powers, he's just a sad, lonely guy who has been turned into what he is by the kind of vilains he is now fighting. he is more cmplex than superman, his inner torment is deeper (i mean come on, superman's alter ego is unrealistic, he doesn't fit... and all his problems are about winning some girl's love).

IMO most heroes are trying to win some gal's love, but too shy to say it forward

Scratch heroes. All men try to do that.

All men?

Including Elton John???

:D

Batman; gothic, dark, sinister......and he's the good guy. Intriguing.

Superman; leotards, usually works during the day(in both personas), no hint of any personal faults. Boring.