no emotion?

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11-17-2008, 10:41 AM
cgnadt

no emotion?

it seems that most of the inner and outer party members have no emotion.
for example:
winston is in the prole section when a bomb hits.... then when he gets up after the explosion he dusts himself off and kicks a bodyless hand into a nearby gutter. it is as if he doesn't care about the person it once belonged to. he doesn't even think about checking for survivors, or anything a one of us would do today. it is amazing to me how he can just walk away. he doesn't even stop to realize that he himself was almost killed.
11-17-2008, 11:03 AM
lukgem

yes,this does come back to him later on in the book i think,when winston becomes human again during his rehabillitation with julia back into the real state of the human psyche,unperverted by the mind control of the party.
he feel's a sense of guilt i think about his actions when the rocket bomb fell.
maybe this highlights the power of the party over the mind of an intelligent, decent,searching human being who is yearning to know what liberty is.
i echo your distaste at winstons actions that day.
also the desensitisation and brainwashing of all party members is fully explained in the theory and practice of oligarchical collectivism chapter one,ignorance is strength.
11-18-2008, 11:26 AM
cgnadt

well maybe the party members to have some emotions....

well he does show some emotions when he is the prole section when another bomb hits (when he is with Julia) he is worried that when he sees her not moving that she is dead. :bawling: luckily for him she is not. i think that she gives him a sense of hope, which is another emotion. the diary/journal is another example of winston showing emotion but only in writing.
now that i think about it, the people in this book do show some fear of thought crime, love of Big Brother, and anger in two minutes hate. these feelings are emotions wether or not they are brainwashed into feeling them.
11-18-2008, 05:51 PM
Enjoi.

I agree, the feelings that Winston does feel are very minuscule and rare. Julia, I think, brings some emotion to the table even with him just being with her. I don't think him just walking away from the bomb site is strange because he has no business in being there. If he searched for people or who the disembodied hand belonged to the Party would look at this and see emotion. Emotion is what they want to eliminate. This could be considered thought crime and we would have to say goodbye to Winston.
11-19-2008, 08:52 AM
lukgem

the whole range of human emotion was steered through the worship of big brother leaving the individual without any soul,life,spirit and humanity.the party could manipulate but not crush the human instinct.
i think there is some hope we can take from that,as winston ends up loving bb.
11-19-2008, 10:51 AM
Enjoi.

I didn't think of that. Love, is an emotion and they want them to love BigBrother yet they want to get rid of the human instinct and emotion. Which is not possible on such a wide scale. So they do the next best thing and give them one thing to love and worship. Thaks lukgem, that clarified some things. :D
11-19-2008, 08:18 PM
Princess Belle

Does Winston really love Big Brother? Maybe in a worshipful sense of love but i don't think he love's Big Brother with the love of a human. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but I think the human ability to love was beaten out, in more ways than one, of him in the Minestry of Love. Now he can 'choose' to love big Brother but is it love? Or is it more of Winston clinging to the thing thing he thinks gives him security and the closest thing to a companion in an emotion he thinks is love...
11-20-2008, 11:01 AM
cgnadt

thanks enjoi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enjoi.

I didn't think of that. Love, is an emotion and they want them to love BigBrother yet they want to get rid of the human instinct and emotion. Which is not possible on such a wide scale. So they do the next best thing and give them one thing to love and worship. Thaks lukgem, that clarified some things. :D

you are right in a sense
the party could not fully destroy all emotions because they need something left over to support themselves and Big Brother. they tried to destroy all emotion related towards other human beings, but create feelings towards big brother. unfortanently for them this is not entirly possible as Enjoi pointed out.
11-20-2008, 12:38 PM
Enjoi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgnadt

you are right in a sense
the party could not fully destroy all emotions because they need something left over to support themselves and Big Brother. they tried to destroy all emotion related towards other human beings, but create feelings towards big brother. unfortanently for them this is not entirly possible as Enjoi pointed out.

Completely agree.
12-04-2008, 09:44 PM
laxer7

Winston's love of Big Brother

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess Belle

Does Winston really love Big Brother? Maybe in a worshipful sense of love but i don't think he love's Big Brother with the love of a human. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but I think the human ability to love was beaten out, in more ways than one, of him in the Minestry of Love. Now he can 'choose' to love big Brother but is it love? Or is it more of Winston clinging to the thing thing he thinks gives him security and the closest thing to a companion in an emotion he thinks is love...

Winston doesn't really love Big Brother, it's because the abuse he suffered under O'Brien and when it finally stopped that he believes he loves Big Brother. It's Stockholm syndrome.
12-04-2008, 11:01 PM
Enjoi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by laxer7

Winston doesn't really love Big Brother, it's because the abuse he suffered under O'Brien and when it finally stopped that he believes he loves Big Brother. It's Stockholm syndrome.

That was the only way for it to stop. He had to know he loved Big Brother. (and all its teachings, et al.)
12-07-2008, 12:53 PM
Eaglesfann212

I think that why Winston, just kicks the hand aside and dosn't check for survivers or people who has been hurt b/c he has become so desensitized to violence and death that all he can do is kick aside the hand and feal no remorse.
12-07-2008, 02:44 PM
The Atheist

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfann212

I think that why Winston, just kicks the hand aside and dosn't check for survivers or people who has been hurt b/c he has become so desensitized to violence and death that all he can do is kick aside the hand and feal no remorse.

Nope. He hasn't become desensitised to death, because it's something he would rarely see, while violence - aside from execution of "POWs" - is non-existent in Oceania.

His emotions have been worn away by the societal construct of the Party.
12-07-2008, 10:23 PM
Enjoi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Nope. He hasn't become desensitised to death, because it's something he would rarely see, while violence - aside from execution of "POWs" - is non-existent in Oceania.

His emotions have been worn away by the societal construct of the Party.

Agreed, the bombings, executions, and the movies are the violent things. And these are seen by W on rare occasion. On those occasions he still doesn't feel anything and the Party made sure of that.
12-23-2008, 01:45 PM
truedatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Nope. He hasn't become to desensitised death, because it's something he would rarely see, while violence - aside from execution of "POWs" - is non-existent in Oceania.

His emotions have been worn away by the societal construct of the Party.

I must disagree with you there the entire country is desensitised to violence. With the exicutions and such they accualy seem to enjoy the violence. Id like you to show me an example of how he hasnt been desensitised scence I'm pretty sure that this was a main goal of the party. Desensitisation allows people to follow blindly without questioning the morals of the parties actions.

P.S. I have the strong feeling that I'm going to get massacured on this lol
12-23-2008, 02:42 PM
The Atheist

Quote:

Originally Posted by truedatt

I must disagree with you there the entire country is desensitised to violence. With the exicutions and such they accualy seem to enjoy the violence. Id like you to show me an example of how he hasnt been desensitised scence I'm pretty sure that this was a main goal of the party. Desensitisation allows people to follow blindly without questioning the morals of the parties actions.

P.S. I have the strong feeling that I'm going to get massacured on this lol

Nah, you could even be right.

I'm looking at it through 2008 eyes, where the entire society is desensitised to violence by the constant stream of horrific crime and war stories in electronic media.

In Oceania, those stories don't exist and aside from the executions, I don't think people would see much in the way of actual violence - there wouldn't be any in society. In some parts of the world, nearly everyone owns a gun, in Oceania, nobody owns one.

You could be quite right that executions were designed to be the desensitising agent, but it seems somewhat counter-productive to doublethink. I can't quite tie in why desensitising people to violence would benefit the Party.