Eighth Grade Existentialism

Date: Sat Jul 13, 2002 9:03 am


When my stepson was in 8th grade, I saw a copy of Camus' novel, "The
Plague," on his desk, and I was startled to think that such a book
was required reading for an 8th grader, so I asked him "are you
reading this for school?"


He became alarmed and said "Is it a bad book?" (he was worried that
it was something he shouldn't be reading).



I said, "No, it's a fine book. I'm just surprised if they require you
to read it." He explained that it was not required reading. He
simply chose it on his own because it seemed interesting.



He then asked me "What is surprising about an 8th grader reading
Camus,.... what sort of writer is he?"


I said "Well, Camus is an Existentialist of sorts."


Then he asked, "What is an Existentialist?"


I answered, "Aha, that is a very interesting question! Let's look up
Existentialism in the encyclopedia. But I guarantee you that when we
are done reading the article, you will see that basically, it will
say that it is hard to define Existentialism."



We read the article on Existentialism together, and when we finished,
he agreed that it didn't really explain what Existentialism is.



I tried to explain, "If you keep reading lots of books by
Existentialists like Camus, Sartre, Kierkegaard, etc., then, very
slowly, you will perhaps change and see the world through the eyes of the
Existentialists, and you too will be Existentialist in your thinking.
Similarly, if you read lots and lots of Plato's dialogues, you will possibly
slowly change and begin to see the world in Platonic terms. You are
Roman Catholic and have always gone to Catholic schools, so you see
the world through the eyes of Catholicism.


So, then he asked, "Well, is that GOOD?" (i.e. is it good to see the
world through the eyes of Existentialism.)



I answered, "It is not a matter of being good or bad, as if there is
only one right way to see the world. BUT, I will say, it is far
better to see the world through SOME kind of eyes, with some kind of
perspective, be it Existentialist, Platonic, Roman Catholic, etc.,
then to not look at the world at all, and go through life with your
eyes closed."


That was an eighth grader's first venture into existentialism.

Well, I 've read a lot of existentialist fiction (or what critics have lumped together as 'existentialist' in tone or treatment, but not a lot of philosophy (mostly just Kirkegaarde and Camus' non-fiction, and Barrett's famous book) so maybe I can throw in a few thoughts here. (I'm going to call it 'E' from now on)

Part of the problem with defining E is that there are, in my view, more than one type of E: you could say there is Russian E, French E, perhaps even German E and American E. Each is sown in the history and literary traditions of each language and country. The most common definition would be something like, Man is alone and engaged in a fruitless battle against a hostile Universe. Therefore, the individual is to be celebrated, and any meaning in life is given by the individual him/herself. or something like that.

However, to take it a little further, and at the danger of generalizing haphazardly, French E (Camus, Perec, Beckett, dadaists etc) tends to celebrate the Absurd, that is to say, that life is absurd at its very core, and that enlightenment (when possible) can only take place through an EMBRACING of the absurdity of life. For Russian E one might substitute pain and suffering for absurdity (not that the absurd cannot be painful) and state that any enlightenment or insights in the true nature of existence can only come about through an embrace or recognition of the suffering that is its true essence. This is more of a reflection of Russia's totalitarian history and its writer's treatment of it (Dostoevsky, Solzhenitsyn, etc). German E (Bernhard, Broch, etc) is similar to these strands but always viewed through the lens of the Holocaust, which tints everything a particularly dark shade. American E (if such a literary tradition exists in a unified enough form to speak about) is not so easy to speak about.

Of course these are gross simplifications and there are elements of all of these overlapping. Anyway, these are just some general thoughts. Though I would be remiss if I didnt say that I think E is the defining condition of modern mankind, and that its influence can be felt to this day in writers like Delillo, Murakami, and in movies like Lost in Translation and others.

That's cool. An eight grader reading Camus, I read To Kill a Mockingbird in eighth grade.

Wow, that seems quite early for existentialism, but I certainly, by all means, encourage a good education, beginning as early as possible. My younger brother, a senior in high school, I recently found assigned to read Plato's Phaedrus and Rene Descartes Meditations; I felt happy to help him with analyzing both works, but discovered Cartesian existentialism his first dose of ontology and the like.
I wish your step-son the best of luck, Sitaram.

I found this term some years ago when I was still in college. I can't remember exactly how (and I'm still trying hard to remember, how did I end up searching it on the net). But I think it got something to do with Sophie's World. The first name that I got really familiar with was Kieekergard. I love his thinking. Then I encountered Satre and his essay "Existentialism is Humanism". An easy read article which I found very inspiring. Then after that Karl Jaspers, Simone De Beauvoir, etc.

I understand your point about looking the world thru some eyes, which would make us a very open person. But don't you think it's best if we have a specific primary window to see the world. I mean we can see our garden outside from different windows, but I'm sure there's always a certain one which give us the most perfect angle to see the garden, where the sunshine and flowers are best seen from that spot

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Surfer

Part of the problem with defining E is that there are, in my view, more than one type of E: you could say there is Russian E, French E, perhaps even German E and American E.

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and possibly English E. John Fowles' writing has a large existential bent to it, exploring themes of personal freedom and responsibility for one's own destiny. Much of it however is very "English". I'm halfway through Daniel Martin at the moment, and it seems much like a celebration and lamentation of all things English...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sitaram

"...It is not a matter of being good or bad, as if there is
only one right way to see the world. BUT, I will say..... it us better then to not look at the world at all, and go through life with your
eyes closed."


That was an eighth grader's first venture into existentialism.

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Here Here! Good Daddy!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by subterranean

The first name that I got really familiar with was Kieekergard. I love his thinking. Then I encountered Satre and his essay "Existentialism is Humanism". An easy read article which I found very inspiring. Then after that Karl Jaspers, Simone De Beauvoir, etc.

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I started my study of existentialism with Jean-Paul Sartre too, alone with Plato, Pythagoras, Rene Descartes, Friedrich Nietzsche, Arthur Schopenhauer, and David Hume.

Certainly Diceman, though I am not familiar with Fowles' works. I would be interested in hearing you expand a bit in terms of some defining characteristics of English E, and authors that you think share this outlook. They would certainly make my 'to read' list.

I have also been trying to organize my thoughts in regards to American E, and though I'm not prepared to share any general ideas, I would recommend Delillo particularly White Noise, Percy's The Moviegoer, Ralph Ellison, Pynchon perhaps, as purveyors.

Hey, here's an interesting thread that would compliment the current Existentialism thread. (Wondering if there's a way to link common threads together somehow...)

I appreciate how you broke down Existentialism into how it is represented/presented by different countries/cultures. For American, Ralph Ellison's Invisible Man and Richard Wright's Black Boy are considered Existential (both novels deal with race issues & are based in the south).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Surfer

American E (if such a literary tradition exists in a unified enough form to speak about) is not so easy to speak about.

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If an American existential tradition exists, I think there are works one can point to that highlight it.

Some candidates (novels):

Palahniuk, _Fight Club_, _Survivor_
Heller, _Catch-22_
Kesey, _One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest_
Vonnegut, _Mother Night_, _The Sirens of Titan_
West, _Miss Lonelyhearts_
Dreiser, _An American Tragedy_

Some candidates (critical works):

Giddens, _The Consequences of Modernity_
Toffler, _Future Shock_
Boorstin, _The Image_

Any other suggestions?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by genoveva

For American, Ralph Ellison's Invisible Man and Richard Wright's Black Boy are considered Existential (both novels deal with race issues & are based in the south).

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These works, too.

I've been assigned Black Boy for my history class, but haven't started it. That's interesting that it could be considered Existential, I'll have to keep that in mind when we get to it in the schedule.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Diceman

and possibly English E. John Fowles' writing has a large existential bent to it, exploring themes of personal freedom and responsibility for one's own destiny. Much of it however is very "English". I'm halfway through Daniel Martin at the moment, and it seems much like a celebration and lamentation of all things English...

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Have you read "The Aristos"? It is an astounding exposition of Fowles's philosophy of life. I am still waiting for my copy to arrive from Play.com - I need to read this book again - it's been far too long.

It will shed a lot of light on the ideas behind his fiction. Profoundly humanist.

Hello People...I just arrived. I've been trying to apply existentialism to the stories of Kate Chopin and finding it confusing. Any suggestions...? I want to bring out the fear of freedom angle...

I think it is great that your son is reading existential works at an early age. I would also love to know what he thinks about the book. It will give us a sense of how a kid views actions that he will inevitably face as he changes and grows with time.

Also if he is interested and wants to read more, "The Flies" by Sartre is a good book for a highschool level. It also gives a very Nietzsche like idea at the end.

I just wanna say THANK YOU so much for setting an example by turning to the encyclopedia for information, lol. As a Writing Center tutor one of the main things they emphasize to us is that if students come in and have to write a paper on something they don't know much about, don't give it to them, get them to research it. If only they had been encouraged to do this from younger they would save themselves so much trouble! :)

you are awesome.

heheh...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TodHackett

If an American existential tradition exists, I think there are works one can point to that highlight it.

Some candidates (novels):

Palahniuk, _Fight Club_, _Survivor_
Heller, _Catch-22_
Kesey, _One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest_
Vonnegut, _Mother Night_, _The Sirens of Titan_
West, _Miss Lonelyhearts_
Dreiser, _An American Tragedy_

Some candidates (critical works):

Giddens, _The Consequences of Modernity_
Toffler, _Future Shock_
Boorstin, _The Image_

Any other suggestions?

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Catcher in the Rye count?

I'm glad to see Ralph Ellison being mentioned. I enjoyed "Invisible Man".

=O I love your avatar. (above poster's)
But, I think existentialism is way too vague, you can pin that tag on just about every modern classics. Well, even books that don't get labeled as existentialist works, do not show that they're not, and I think the term is overused.
Camus isn't a hard read though so it should be fine, (don't want to give him a bad experience/impression or he might never read similar books again.) I would hold off on the sartre and the nietzche philosophy until later though.

I'm very much drawn to E as a worldview but I agree it's difficult to define. I think if one goes through the really influential E writers and highlight their primary themes one can begin to see a kind of pattern or "groundwork" that make up the general E thought. The more you branch out, the more complex and contradictory it becomes (from Kierkegaard's "All for God" to Nietzsche's "God is dead"). I think, however, two of primary and overlapping things are the importance placed on subjectivity and individual choice.

Also, to the OP: I love the way you handled the situation. I wish more parents could be like that. Well done.