So your going to change the world, but for whom?

Person 1- So you acknowledge that human nature can never be altered.

Person 2- Yes.

Person 1- You also acknowledge that we live in a very imperfect existence where there will always be inequality where humans will thrive by going against other humans and their will by devouring each other sometimes even destroying other people and their lives entirely.

Person 2- Yes.

Person 1- You also acknowledge that no utopia will ever be achieved.

Person 2- Yes.......


Person 1- So tell me then when you speak of change, progress, and the improvement of humanity, for whom do you speak of?

Obviously in the future inequalness will still exist as you admitted that inequality and the bondage of others will never cease.

Is this talk of change, progress, and the improvement of humanity only met for a select chosen?

Change for whom? Who shall benefit from this change when past, present, and future history is etched with inequalness?

Surely someone must benefit.......

Person 2- ( Walks off in disgustment.)

Thats a cute story, and it shows your pessimistic tendencies of debate. What is inequalness, did you mean inequality?

We may never achieve total equality but we can lessen the degree of inequality.

You're argument is basically saying that ending slavery did nothing because inequality still exists.

Once again, we know that nothing can be perfect. You can't achieve perfection. But why do you think that making things BETTER is pointless? You can't always have get what you want, so settle for second best.

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Originally Posted by Mr Hyde

Person 1- So you acknowledge that human nature can never be altered.

Person 2- Yes.

Person 1- You also acknowledge that we live in a very imperfect existence where there will always be inequality where humans will thrive by going against other humans and their will by devouring each other sometimes even destroying other people and their lives entirely.

Person 2- Yes.

Person 1- You also acknowledge that no utopia will ever be achieved.

Person 2- Yes.......


Person 1- So tell me then when you speak of change, progress, and the improvement of humanity, for whom do you speak of?

Obviously in the future inequalness will still exist as you admitted that inequality and the bondage of others will never cease.

Is this talk of change, progress, and the improvement of humanity only met for a select chosen?

Change for whom? Who shall benefit from this change when past, present, and future history is etched with inequalness?

Surely someone must benefit.......

Person 2- ( Walks off in disgustment.)

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(another place; same time)

(enter person 3 and person 4)

person 3 - do you agree with shakespeare when he says that human nature remains the same?

person 4 - yes

person 3 - is it not in human nature to rebel, to strive, to fight, to struggle for betterment of humankind?

person 4 - yes, and a lot more.

person 3 - but what do humans rebel against? if every thing is part of this giant scheme of human nature, do they not revolt against themselves, and aren't their endevours pointless?aren't they rebels without a cause?

person 4 - not exactly.

person 3 - pray elaborate.

person 4 - i don't think anyone sets out to 'change the world' as such. for instance, the beatles didn't, i'm sure, set themselves up on a mission to change the way people looked at music in the 60s: they had some good songs to offer and they were perhaps happy as long as people appreciated their songs. the fact that they did change the pop scenario (synonymous with 'changing the world') would suggest that the world changes itself and people with genuine creativity, people with original ideas are instrumental to that effect, albeit unconscious.

person 3 - don't you think that the 'world changes itself', to use your admirable phrase, to an egalitarian cause? aren't the endless binaries supposed to be resolved in equality of man?

person 4 - now, equality is an interesting term that shouldn't pass unqualified. if i had time, i would explain what i think of the term. but i have to go. i leave you with a statement that comes to my mind when i ponder upon the condition of the present world, and hear the 'eternal note of sadness': there's no end to equality.

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Originally Posted by B-Mental

Thats a cute story, and it shows your pessimistic tendencies of debate. What is inequalness, did you mean inequality?

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When I said inequalness I meant it as another way of saying inequality.

This thread is basically saying that if inequality will always exist what is the notion of change or progress people are talking about.

In a world that will always be inequal what significant change are people talking about?

Obviously if inequality shall always exist and never cease there is no significant change.
(A Contradiction.)

Is this notion of change or progress only for a select chosen while the rest of the world will remain in a inequal state?

Is this change people are talking about somthing that can only be bought? I really would like to know.

If the world is imperfect and illusions or dreams of a utopia will never take hold then the world is obviously I think changeless.

What says you B-Mental?

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We may never achieve total equality but we can lessen the degree of inequality.

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That will never happen...........

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You're argument is basically saying that ending slavery did nothing because inequality still exists.

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And?

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Originally Posted by Mr. Vandemar

Once again, we know that nothing can be perfect. You can't achieve perfection. But why do you think that making things BETTER is pointless? You can't always have get what you want, so settle for second best.

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Because in the end nothing gets better but instead there is only the illusion of things getting better that those with power trick and conceive others to believe in order to pacify them.

And let me guess, hyde you r Person 1..

When we wanna change we don't change for anyone .. nor ourselves ..
We change because we wanna make this place a better place for living..
Yes ther are wars , poverty.. hunger.. ppl dying of disease...

but in the other hand there r ppl being born.. who need a better world to live in
there are cures for disease that have been discovered.. there r good inventions that r made.. there is GENETIC engineering that helped many patients.
These all are changes.. and they are for the betterment of human being..
we change coz we are humans.. we change coz we have to.. we change because a faith inisde us ;tells us to...
"Foe example; many ppl die in africa coz of simple disease.. just coz they don't have vaccinations... no medication.. .. but with the help of many orginazations ...many kids were able to live a better life.. & though many died .. but we were able to save some. They started a new life .. had education with the help of many charity orginations & the UN.. "

U can't call that nothing.. Where as i call it.. A BRIGHT CHANGE...

“We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.”

—Sir Winston Churchill

“A hundred years from now it will not matter what my bank account was, the sort of house I lived in, or the kind of car I drove... but the world may be different because I was important in the life of a child.”

—Forest E. Witcraft

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And let me guess, hyde you r Person 1..

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Yes.

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When we wanna change we don't change for anyone .. nor ourselves ..
We change because we wanna make this place a better place for living..

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For whom? Certainly it is not for everyone equally..........

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but in the other hand there r ppl being born.. who need a better world to live in

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You keep speaking of this better world coming yet you also acknowledge that inequality will always exist.

So who is this better world being built for because I know you don't mean it for everyone equally.

Will this world only change for the better if you are an social elite or bourgeois?

Will this change for the better only be for a select chosen who are seperated from the impure?

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there are cures for disease that have been discovered.. there r good inventions that r made.. there is GENETIC engineering that helped many patients.

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Appearances and innovations may change but the element of human nature remains the same.

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U can't call that nothing.. Where as i call it.. A BRIGHT CHANGE...

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When I see no change in the human condition and it's nature I can indeed called it nothing or changeless.

[QUOTE=Mr Hyde;629941]Yes.

You keep speaking of this better world coming yet you also acknowledge that inequality will always exist.

So who is this better world being built for because I know you don't mean it for everyone equally.

QUOTE]


The word Pessimistic really suits u :D.. but u can't make others so..
coz there r still optimistic people in this life & i happen to be one of them.

Change cannot be for anyone in personal.. but as i said we change things in this world.. for the betterment of humanbeing..even if evil exist we can come over it... who we .. people like me ; people who loves the world regardless of what it turned to .
Just because i agree there is in equality in this world doesn't mean , no one deserves a better future..
This is life if there is no poor ; wouldn't have been a rich people..
if there wasn't disease ; there wouldn't have been cures..
if there wasn't evil .. there wouldn't have been
These things existed long billions ages back.. & yet ppl were happy & living in peace.... Only coz everyone knew what he wanted & lived to make his day as bright as he can; regardless if he was poor or rich.
So its like a system.. that goes on.. Not you nor me have anything to do with it ..
Have you ever thought once of why we are called HUMANS .. ? well ! probably you know but u just forgot.. its derived from humane..
Which we have .. just coz some people.. r so cruel.. doesn't mean that we are all the same.. Sterotyping is not the right thing..

Peace exist even if you don't agree.. even if you don't want.. even if everyone in this world is aganist it..
It only takes a one person that have a deep faith in his heart..
Even if it was a young poor child..

Better life , better future.. Dreams .. that require only determination to make trough ..

" IF THERE IS NO DREAM , THEN HOW THERE GONNA BE A DREAM COME TRUE"

Being a pessimistic only effects you.. as an inside person.. but trust me it won't harm anyone else .
wish you joy & happiness but above all i wish you love.

On this point I have to be in disagree with Hyde, I do beleive that small change is better then no change.

But looking at the state of things now, frankly I do not think there is going to be a world left anyway, so it really does not matter. There is nothing to show that there is anyway to resolve the problems humans have began or that anyone is going to make any real change to do so.

I no longer find it valid to talk about the future becasue I do not beleive in the exisitince of any real future anymore.

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The word Pessimistic really suits u :D..

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It does....

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but u can't make others so..

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I could care less to be honest.

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coz there r still optimistic people in this life & i happen to be one of them.

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And why should I be concerned with such beliefs?

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Change cannot be for anyone in personal.. but as i said we change things in this world.. for the betterment of humanbeing..

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Which human beings? As I said the betterment and improvement of the world in the future will obviously not include all human beings as many at this website have acknowledged that inequality will always exist.

( And by saying inequality will always exist that includes the theoretical future too.)

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even if evil exist we can come over it...

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And what is evil? Your talking to a guy who doesn't believe in good or evil, right and wrong, and other ambiguous social descriptions.

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Peace exist even if you don't agree.. even if you don't want.. even if everyone in this world is aganist it..

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Peace exists? Really? Show me an example.

As for you comment on faith I'll have you know that I'm faithless.

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I do beleive that small change is better then no change.

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What's changing? Also: Apparently this change, improvement and betterment only includes a select chosen few by acknowledging that inequality will always exist.

It would seem that only those lucky enough to live outside of inequality or those not affected by it have the luxory of this change and improvement that everyone is talking about.

Perhaps it is a elaborate bluff those with power use to manipulate those without power into believing.




P1-"These fools literally believe that this change and improvement will include them in the future on a equal scale. Laughable!"

P2-"Let them believe it fool heartedly so long as they do our bidding."

P1-"Why not? It gives them false security in that it keeps the whip on them in their toiling labors."

P1- "You got to give false hope some credit in that it is the greatest instrument of control."

P2-"Misdirection and misinformation is always useful in enslaving minds."

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But looking at the state of things now, frankly I do not think there is going to be a world left anyway, so it really does not matter. There is nothing to show that there is anyway to resolve the problems humans have began or that anyone is going to make any real change to do so.

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Probally.

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I no longer find it valid to talk about the future becasue I do not beleive in the exisitince of any real future anymore.

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A valid point.

You seem to be of the mind, that sense making an absolute utopia is impossible, then why bother to attempt to make any imporvement at all.

That is ALL the problems cannot be solved, no one should attempt to solve ANY of the problems.

As to an example of some change that has taken place. Women have a lot more rights, freedoms, independents, then they use to once upon a time ago. Sure there are still a few select parts of the world that hold old world views about women. But once upon a time ago the marjoriy of the world with only a few meeger exceptions viewed women as sub-class, inferrior to men, whose only purpose was to stay at home and pump out babies.

The view of women in the majority of the world has imporved. The problem has not been completely eliminated. But it is a lot better then it used to be.

They say practice makes perfect. But if nobody's perfect, then why practice?

I think it's just sad if one decide to sit on his couch and do nothing just because he has this point of view that no matter what he does, there are always be poor people out there. We will never know what can 1 dollar bill or a piece of bread do to someone else's life.

Change within oneself is the change that matters. Changing this world begins there. :nod:

here's a simple example from life......

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The Only "Enabler" in My Life
As a child, I learned at a very early age, to project hatred with a passion, on everyone around me, and also as a means of survival and staying safe from pain and suffering. The end result of this distorted belief system, was that for the next 30 years, I kept myself in bondage to addictions and long-term incarcerations. Up until about 15 years ago, I found myself arrested and incarcerated.

However, in my journey this time I crossed paths with a different type of Correctional Officer. A 72-year-old retired Sheriff’s Officer, who was employed part-time as a Correctional Officer. I was assigned to him as a barber. Little did I know that this little guy would become the pivotal force in my life. He became the first person to batter me with kindness, and called me all kinds of weird, strange, alien and bizarre names, such as: admirable, remarkable, and trusting person. Even, once during a potentially explosive confrontation between myself and other inmates, he electronically locked-down the "Unit" and left me inside! When I asked him why he had done this, he simply smiled and replied, “I knew you could handle that situation.” My thought was, “Yeah right, as if I'm superman.” But he had seen that I had the gift of “negotiating.”

Now, this weirdo had faith and trust in me! I remember thinking, “What was wrong with this dude?!” However, those simple acts of empowerment, and allowing me to know and trust myself and understand that I was a valuable person, has had a profound effect on my life.

Today, on a daily basis, I surrender to living life on life’s terms. And to the best of my ability, I smile and project love toward others. Today, I'm a licensed & registered addictions therapist/counselor. I co-facilitate meditation retreats in prisons, and I teach a graduate class at a local university. All because another human being had the courage to take a risk with me. I've had no treatment interventions, no burning bushes, or laying on of hands; just a simple loving individual that mirrored (projected) every single exquisite quality that he possessed on another human. My only regret, to this story is that, I have been unable to locate God's little Angel, (his nickname was “BRAT”) and bow deeply to him and simply say, “NAMASTE, a thousand times, Mr. Bradburn.”

---

http://www.forbetterlife.org/be-insp...37&value_id=61

No offense but the initial proposition "human nature cannot be changed" is false, it can be modified augmented improved because human beings are influence by Culture Education Family media etc. The entire subject of psychology and sociology is based on that principle "how we evolve". So the entire argument starts from a false premise.

But just for argument's sake let me assume that it cannot be changed, so what? I bet everyone knew that guy or gal in their class who used to ace every exam, what about the Nobel Laureates or people studying at Harvard or Ivy leagues are they average student!! We seem to have no issues when it comes to acknowledging that some people are simply more gifted than others and we glorify them too. Then why do we expect equality in other aspects. The statement "world is not equal" and "World is not fair" are quite different, the first one is a fact and the second one is a debatable assertion but one does not follow from the other.

Standard of living depends on level of income, so even if the income distribution is much more unequal now people are still better off than before as average level of income is higher.

People often suggest that we dont have "peace" where as in reality we are probably living in the most peaceful time in human history (so far), and optimism has nothing to do with it. Fact is because of media/global interconnectedness we now know that there is a war going on in Iraq or people are dying in Sudan or Palestine/Israel. When a soldier dies in Afghanistan we get the news immediately and that's unprecedented. The result is we think that the world has become a much worse place than before, in this case a little bit of tour de History will help us a lot.

The result is similar to what happens when you have a new law that tries to punish people for domestic violence. Reports of domestic violence actually goes up after the law is enacted, however that does not mean people are committing more violence because of the law but rather because of the law people are now reporting more as they now have recourse which previously they didn't and hence did not report. Correlation and Causality are distinct.


(NB: I am studying economics, so I am as dismal as one can get)

Mauz, you make some very good points here. Let me comment.

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Originally Posted by muazjalil

No offense but the initial proposition "human nature cannot be changed" is false, it can be modified augmented improved because human beings are influence by Culture Education Family media etc. The entire subject of psychology and sociology is based on that principle "how we evolve". So the entire argument starts from a false premise.

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I'm not sure I agree here. I don't think human nautre changes, but we can set up insitutions that generate different results from our nature. I hope that makes sense. And so we don't modify human nature, we try to generate the best possible results.

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But just for argument's sake let me assume that it cannot be changed, so what? I bet everyone knew that guy or gal in their class who used to ace every exam, what about the Nobel Laureates or people studying at Harvard or Ivy leagues are they average student!! We seem to have no issues when it comes to acknowledging that some people are simply more gifted than others and we glorify them too. Then why do we expect equality in other aspects. The statement "world is not equal" and "World is not fair" are quite different, the first one is a fact and the second one is a debatable assertion but one does not follow from the other.

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Absolutely agree with you here. First of all it is impossible to expect equality of outcome. To enforce equality of outcome has proven disasterous and frankly unjust. If a person works harder than another, he ought to be compensated for it, not punished.

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Standard of living depends on level of income, so even if the income distribution is much more unequal now people are still better off than before as average level of income is higher.

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Absolutely!!!! Is it better to be equally poor or have a better standard of living despite someone else being better off. That is wisdom. I've finally found a soul mate here. ;)

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People often suggest that we dont have "peace" where as in reality we are probably living in the most peaceful time in human history (so far), and optimism has nothing to do with it. Fact is because of media/global interconnectedness we now know that there is a war going on in Iraq or people are dying in Sudan or Palestine/Israel. When a soldier dies in Afghanistan we get the news immediately and that's unprecedented. The result is we think that the world has become a much worse place than before, in this case a little bit of tour de History will help us a lot.

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Definitely agree that it's perception. I'm sure there are no statistics to prove it one way or the other. But I'm sure there have been much worse times, and given the world now enjoys the highest standards of living ever, the world is certainly a much better place to live than probably at any time in history.

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(NB: I am studying economics, so I am as dismal as one can get)

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I wish more people would study economics. Welcome to lit net. :)

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You seem to be of the mind, that sense making an absolute utopia is impossible, then why bother to attempt to make any imporvement at all.

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Very astute.

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That is ALL the problems cannot be solved, no one should attempt to solve ANY of the problems.

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Nods.

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As to an example of some change that has taken place. Women have a lot more rights, freedoms, independents, then they use to once upon a time ago. Sure there are still a few select parts of the world that hold old world views about women.

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I don't believe in rights. I also despise political correctness as the more it tries to supposedly correct the world the more problems it creates.

The only right that exists to me is might. Might makes right.

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But once upon a time ago the marjoriy of the world with only a few meeger exceptions viewed women as sub-class, inferrior to men, whose only purpose was to stay at home and pump out babies.

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And now that we have feminism the metanarrative is that men are these oppressive destructive creatures responsible for a large part of suffering around the world.

Now masculinism is discouraged for emasculation or pacifist behaviors.

I don't like feminism much because I hate all forms of political correctness and I also believe women relatively have it easy compared to men.

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They say practice makes perfect. But if nobody's perfect, then why practice?

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Exactly.

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I think it's just sad if one decide to sit on his couch and do nothing just because he has this point of view that no matter what he does, there are always be poor people out there.

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You call it sad where I just call it realism.

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We will never know what can 1 dollar bill or a piece of bread do to someone else's life.

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Not a whole hell of alot.

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Originally Posted by Psycheinaboat

Change within oneself is the change that matters. Changing this world begins there. :nod:

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Unfortunately changing yourself doesn't matter considering the limitations and confinements of our world is imposed by society regardless of the sentiments within you.

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No offense but the initial proposition "human nature cannot be changed" is false, it can be modified augmented improved because human beings are influence by Culture Education Family media etc. The entire subject of psychology and sociology is based on that principle "how we evolve". So the entire argument starts from a false premise.

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And what has culture and education done in the many thousands of years that both have existed in changing anything other than help repeat the cycle of inequality?

How has human nature been changed?

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I'm not sure I agree here. I don't think human nautre changes, but we can set up insitutions that generate different results from our nature. I hope that makes sense. And so we don't modify human nature, we try to generate the best possible results.

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Oh they try with their wishful thinking but as for results...........:lol:

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If a person works harder than another, he ought to be compensated for it, not punished.

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Judgement of seperiority often leads to prejudice which inevitably leads to inequality.

Did you just notice the element in what you said?

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Originally Posted by Mr Hyde

And now that we have feminism the metanarrative is that men are these oppressive destructive creatures responsible for a large part of suffering around the world.

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I do not agree with the direction femiminsim has taken in this day and age, nor am I waving any banner in support of them.

But considering I have no interest in being a "housewife" that spends all my time cooking and cleaning, and being viewed as subservaint.

And I certaintly have no interest in reproducing, and well if I lived once upon a time ago, I probably already would have been thrown to the inqusistion and burned at the stake. I have to say things of improved considerably.

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Originally Posted by Mr Hyde

I also believe women relatively have it easy compared to men.

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Personally I cannot much stand to here either gender whine about how much better the other half has it, becasue unless they happen to live somewhere where they do have real problems, I do not think either side as much of a right to complain.

Societies are not and cannot be organized according to a plan or a goal as there is no direction to history, and there is no such thing as moral or spiritual progress.

While I agree that soceities cannot be orginized according to a plan, I think history itself disproves your last point.

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

While I agree that soceities cannot be orginized according to a plan, I think history itself disproves your last point.

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There is no such thing as history or anything else, for that matter beyond our subjective efforts to define it.

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I do not agree with the direction femiminsim has taken in this day and age, nor am I waving any banner in support of them.

But considering I have no interest in being a "housewife" that spends all my time cooking and cleaning, and being viewed as subservaint.

And I certaintly have no interest in reproducing, and well if I lived once upon a time ago, I probably already would have been thrown to the inqusistion and burned at the stake. I have to say things of improved considerably.

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http://www.online-literature.com/for...ad.php?t=38841

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Personally I cannot much stand to here either gender whine about how much better the other half has it, becasue unless they happen to live somewhere where they do have real problems, I do not think either side as much of a right to complain.

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I just express what I feel.

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Originally Posted by Mr Hyde

Exactly.




You call it sad where I just call it realism.



Not a whole hell of alot.

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Tell me, what's the goal of this whole discourse of yours?

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Originally Posted by Mr Hyde

And what has culture and education done in the many thousands of years that both have existed in changing anything other than help repeat the cycle of inequality?

How has human nature been changed?

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Well whether human nature has changed intrinsically or not is for me a futile and to be honest a pointless discussion, what matters is the revealed preference or rather outcome. So as Virgil mentioned, institutions now exist which guide our behavior towards an outcome which is optimal for the society. During Barbaric time I guess "might" in its literal sense was power and one could just about do anything (Plunder loot rape etc) however at present if you want power you have to be intellectually superior more than anything. That's why people like Hawkins have more power than let's say a WWF wrestler (no offense to any particular community)

As I said before,World is not equal and first of all i see absolutely no reason why it should be and second why is it bad to have an unequal world. I am, thank god, an academically successful guy (till now lol) and so i want to be rewarded for my gift. Equality can either mean equitable distribution, a thought which i find untenable and contrary to logic (it destroys motivation and promotes mediocrity) or it could mean giving each according to his abilities (how to do that, well that's where institution comes in and we are getting there).

I am a believer of the second type of equality. How efficiently we can choose to distribute/reward according to individual abilities is a justifiable question but its an operational question, a question on method and sure we can improve methods (our institutions are far better than before). So progress entails developing methodologies or mechanisms which allows society to efficiently reward people according to their abilities and also provides option to individuals to enhance their abilities. Marx thought it in one way and for 80 years or so we experimented with that, capitalism has its flaws and that's why we have welfare states (nordic) but even they have their flaws. So progress, my perspective, is striving for an ever better mechanism of providing the right incentives to individual and it is for the entire humanity.

(NB: Virgil Thanks a lot for your comments especially considering that they are coming from a veteran like you :). As for more people studying economics, it is true that economist believe in perfect competition but when it comes to their own turf they are firm believer of Monopoly LOL)

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Originally Posted by subterranean

Tell me, what's the goal of this whole discourse of yours?

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enough said.

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Originally Posted by subterranean

Tell me, what's the goal of this whole discourse of yours?

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To prove that most idealistic forms of worldly change are delusional.( That nothing changes.)

( Atleast that is my stance.)

However if you are on the defending side I suppose the point of this thread is to prove me wrong.

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however at present if you want power you have to be intellectually superior more than anything.

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Do you mean intellectually superior like this thread of mine that was so rudely moved away from the philosophical section of this website?

http://www.online-literature.com/for...ad.php?t=38803

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That's why people like Hawkins have more power than let's say a WWF wrestler (no offense to any particular community)

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And yet human social behavior like days before still revolves around power.

Those who have power and those have none.

See how nothing changes...................

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As I said before,World is not equal and first of all i see absolutely no reason why it should be and second why is it bad to have an unequal world.

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I'm not saying it is bad. I'm merely pointing out humans to be the malicious,violent, selfish,greedy and egotistical maniacs that they are.

Infact that is the whole point of my thread.

( And most threads I create.)

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I am, thank god, an academically successful guy (till now lol) and so i want to be rewarded for my gift.

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Because through your personal prejudice you believe that your entitled to so much, right?

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Equality can either mean equitable distribution, a thought which i find untenable and contrary to logic (it destroys motivation and promotes mediocrity)

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Here we see human prejudice and emotional appeal of controlling others all the more through your economical perspective which you probally quantify as useful pragmatism.

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I am a believer of the second type of equality. How efficiently we can choose to distribute/reward according to individual abilities is a justifiable question but its an operational question, a question on method and sure we can improve methods (our institutions are far better than before). [B]So progress entails developing methodologies or mechanisms which allows society to efficiently reward people according to their abilities and also provides option to individuals to enhance their abilities.

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Through judgement of superiority and inferiority.

Somethings haven't change doesn't necessarily imply nothing has changed. Power is something that every human craves to some extent, it's a fact and there is very little we can do about it. However power over other human beings is a form of power that we crave. In earlier times that translated to, plundering, raping, dual and other form of violent acts that demonstrated power and probably that was the only outlet. Acknowledging our limitation is one thing, being dictated by it is quite another. At present scientific pursuit, conquering nature, athletics, business success and other forms of healthy competition exist that also allows us to satiate that thirst for power without any/negligible harmful affect.


I don't see how your exposition leads to "I'm merely pointing out humans to be the malicious,violent, selfish,greedy and egotistical maniacs ". How does unequal world makes us all those, its non sequitur. Selfish we are and thankfully so. I don't know if you have read Bertrand Russell's "Sceptical Essays", there is a chapter in that book called "Harm that good man do", pretty illuminating.

I am prejudicial no doubt and thats not the issue, its acknowledging it and trying to live with that limitation. We live in a system that rewards people who have more talents than other do (I am pragmatic like you too) and disproportionately too. Thank GOD, for me, I happen to be in this system per chance and to be honest I have every reason to be happy about it. But the key issue is "disproportionately rewards" and thats a fault with the system that I live in. 18th Century Capitalism was much worse than its current variant and I believe we can improve it even further. In 15th Century Knight in Shining armor was probably the in-thing to be, not anymore. So augmenting incentive system can greatly improve our (humanity) lives. I believe economics can help us do that and thats why I am studying it, apart from the fact that I love the subject and the paycheck is good too not to mention girls love to see a 'cool economics guy' (very rare to find).............well it seems i have other incentives too LOL

Just because human nature will never change doesn't mean no one will benefit from change and good and non-violence. Any change for the better in the world, no matter how small, has some effect. Maybe even if enough of us, make small, good changes in our life, we can make the world a better place. We all just have to work together. You probably disagree but hope and optimism are prime necessities for change...no matter how small that change may be.