Sex and the Koran

I've been reading Tariq Ali's book The Clash of Fundamentalisms, and in it he claims that the Islamic heaven is a place where infinite orgasms occur. He then suggests that the minimum duration of a heavenly orgasm is twenty-four years!! Now, of course, anyone who knows anything about Tariq Ali will realise he considers this to be a whole load of nonsense (and anyone with a sense of humour will see the ridiculous and funny side of this silly assertion regarding heavenly orgasms - the missus and I laughed so much when we read it, we ended up in stitches).

But what Tariq doesn't say - at least not in the body of his text - where this assertion comes from. Does anyone know if this is Koranic?

The 24 year duration is only upon the condition that one is not wearing a prophylactic.

Seriously folks.... speaking extemporaneously from my aging and failing memory, having read the "MEANING" of the Glorious Qu'ran by Pickthall from cover to cover (notice that only the original Arabic qualifies as the true Qu'ran, and any translation is refered to as 'THE MEANING",...

There is no mention of orgasm. There one or more passages which mention that a male in paradise shall receive 72 or so Houris, known (in the carnal sense), by neither humans nor Jinn spirits. There is also some mention of young boys, but nothing specific.

You know, since you bring up this topic: a few years ago, I had a conversation with a Muslim about such things. His argument to me was "Well, in heaven/paradise of course we shall have a need for food and drink and sex." He seemed to feel that this conclusion was quite natural. He was angered because I had been pointing out that the Qu'ran's rivers of honey and milk and wine sounded to me like rather messey feeding-trough images (we shall refrain from mentioning any farm animal by name.)

Jesus put the Pharisees and Saducees in their play by saying that, in heaven, people shall neither marry, nor be given in marriage, but shall be like the angels, the bodiless noetic ones.

I just did a google.com search on "heavenly wh@rehouse" (change the @ to an "o") and came up with over 100 hits. One of those pages listed the following verses from the Qu'ran:

Koran 78:31 As for the righteous, they shall surely triumph. Theirs shall be gardens and vineyards, and high- bosomed virgins for companions: a truly overflowing cup.

Koran 37:40-48 ...They will sit with bashful, dark-eyed virgins, as chaste as the sheltered eggs of ostriches.

Koran 44:51-55 ...Yes and We shall wed them to dark-eyed houris. (beautiful virgins)

Koran 52:17-20 ...They shall recline on couches ranged in rows. To dark-eyed houris (virgins) we shall wed them...

Koran 55:56-57 In them will be bashful virgins neither man nor Jinn will have touched before.Then which of the favours of your Lord will you deny ?"

Koran 55:57-58 Virgins as fair as corals and rubies. Then which of the favours of your Lord will you deny ?"

Koran 56:7-40 ...We created the houris (the beautiful women) and made them virgins, loving companions for those on the right hand.. "

Koran 55:70-77 "In each there shall be virgins chaste and fair... Dark eyed virgins sheltered in their tents whom neither man nor Jin will have touched before.. In the Hadiths, Mohammed goes one step further and expands the promise of virgins to include a free sex market where there is no limit of the number of sexual partners. Women and young boys are on display as if in a fruit market where you can choose the desired ripeness.

Quote from Hadiths (the oral tradition considered second to the Qu'ran)

Al Hadis, Vol. 4, p. 172, No. 34 Ali reported that the Apostle of Allah said, "There is in Paradise a market wherein there will be no buying or selling, but will consist of men and women. When a man desires a beauty, he will have intercourse with them."



Koran 52:24 Round about them will serve, to them, boys (handsome) as pearls well- guarded.

Koran 56:17 Round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness.

Koran 76:19 And round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness: if thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered pearls.

Thanks for that Sitaram.

I have a feeling that Tariq Ali may have been referring to the hadith. Still, wherever it is written, it is extremely silly. Imagine being interrupted after 23.5 yrs!! You've got to start all over again! How could anyone consider this to be a heavenly blessing??

AP

Talking of Heaven, has anyone noticed that the description of Heaven is always satisfying to those it has been sent to? Like in Qoran, the promise of cool, green gardens and vineyards with rivers running through them... This description might bring joy to those in the Arabic Peninsula, especially 1500 years ago -doubt they had enough water, nevermind cool enough- but I grew up in a small town known for its vineyards and promise of an afterlife in vineyards brings out a mild, involuntary 'blah'... Or thinking of folks living in the UK... I am sure they have had enough of green gardens or water with constant rain and would find a warm, sunny Heaven a better incentive.

I realize this present little post of mine is quite frivilous, and somewhat off top, but I stand in need of comic relief.

There is some television series (which I have never seen) called "Sex and the Single Girl." The title of this thread suddenly made me think of "Sex and the Single Prophet."

Of course, I can easily make my post a more serious and on topic by stating the historical fact that there was a time in Muhammed's life when he was single. Most of us are single at the moment of birth, and marry at some future point in our lives, though I suppose in history there may have been some individual who was born married (by means of some arranged marriage no doubt.)

Muhammed was working for Kadijah, a propsperous business women, when she, recognizing his honesty and other fine qualities, suggested that they marry. Kadijah is reckoned as the very first believer to follow Muhammed and submit to Islam. I do not believe that Muhammed took upon himself the burden of additional wives until after Kadijah passed away, but I might well be mistaken in this.

If one is truly curious about the role of sex in the Qu'ran, then one must discuss the life of the Prophet in order to gain some insight.

But these virgins will only be virgins for so long, then what are new virgins delivered on a daily basis?

ROTFL! :D
Maybe they will be subjected to a 'self-virgining' process on daily basis. Otherwise, what would they do with all those 'expired' virgins???

Scher-- I realize there is more than a little humor in all this. But you do raise a very serious and profound question. I used to know the Surah and verse number by heart. I think it is in the the fourth or fifth Surah. Wait, let me google.

"Lo! Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment. Lo! Allah is ever Mighty, Wise." [an-Nisa 4:56]

(Hooray, I remembered correctly, Surah 4)

This business about "fresh skins" in the eternal torment of hell, implies that there is LIFE. I realize this is a subtle difficult point, but such eternal suffering implies continual new life, birth.... correspondingly,... the continual pleasure of paradise must implie some manner of death... (only the prerequiste of death in paradise is much harder to see, whereas the prerequesite of birth in torment, because of the fresh skins, is intuitively obvious.)

There is an obvious similarity between receiving a fresh skin, and receiving perpetually renewed virginity (a hymen).

Say Sitaram, how bout the promise of pleasure of sex in heaven for women according to Quran..? Seems so far the male species got alot of privilleges..

Sounds like the muslim idea of heaven is a giant orgy, which seems strange (and sorry for my ignorance on this matter) since isn't there strict dress codes for muslim women?

yes,... but the paradise only mentions the pleasures of males..... no "beefcake boys" for the ladies,... sorry.... best bring a book along to read (I would suggest "To Kill a Mockingbird")

The ladies get to read "chick lit" ( you know, finding "mr. right" but no steamy bedroom scenes)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sitaram

yes,... but the paradise only mentions the pleasures of males..... no "beefcake boys" for the ladies,... sorry.... best bring a book along to read (I would suggest "To Kill a Mockingbird")

The ladies get to read "chick lit" ( you know, finding "mr. right" but no steamy bedroom scenes)

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Well that stinks. I guess I can't put in a request for my virgins to look like this than, can I?:

http://www.ratm.com/new2/gallery/24.jpg

There hopefully this picture will work.

Yes exactly. I know about this matter already since I spent sometime studying Qoran when I was still little. I used to play in Mosque also when I was a kid.

Was just being ironic with my previous post ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sitaram

yes,... but the paradise only mentions the pleasures of males..... no "beefcake boys" for the ladies,... sorry.... best bring a book along to read (I would suggest "To Kill a Mockingbird")

The ladies get to read "chick lit" ( you know, finding "mr. right" but no steamy bedroom scenes)

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The verses in the Qur'an that speak of afterlife are not to be taken literary. Allah s.v.t says that heaven is not like anything a human mind can conceive. That is why when one reads the verses in the Qur'an about the heaven, it describes it in the way a human mind could understand. Therefore, there are references to those things we can identify with, the things we desire and cannot have, etc. It is just meant to show that no desire will be unfulfilled, nor will people suffer or feel pain. The only thing that we can be sure of is that Allah s.v.t will be just and will reward the believers in ways one cannot imagine. Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him) said about heaven:
"What no eye has ever seen and no ear has never heard and no human heart has ever perceived." (Narrated in the book of compiled hadiths by Imam Muslim.) In regards to sexual intercourse, it is believed that woman and man will be living in some form of a marriage just like in this life. The woman who is rewarded with heaven will be on a higher level than any "heavenly virgin" (or huria), and Allah s.v.t will grant her anything she desires. If a woman and a man who were married in this life wish to continue their marriage in after life, they will be able to do that. The human being will also be without any limitations as to his characteristics in this life such as jealousies, envy, hatred, unhappieness, sorrow etc. In the end, we really cannot know how the life in heaven will be, nor can we even try to comprehend, but surly it is the ultimate goal and wish of every muslim to achieve God's satisfaction and live in His presence and Mercy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Amra

"What no eye has ever seen and no ear has never heard and no human heart has ever perceived." (Narrated in the book of compiled hadiths by Imam Muslim.)

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Perhaps St. Paul was an inspiration for Hadith:

1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear
heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God
hath prepared for them that love him.


I wonder if, in Paradise, Allah shall grant anyone freedom from the thrall of boundless desire for pleasure and self-gratification. I wonder if anyone shall ask for such a boon. I wonder if anyone shall ask that all those suffering in the torment of hell be admitted into Paradise. And, if someone DID ask Allah, would their petition be granted? And if it would not be granted, then one cannot say that Allah would grant them anything they request.

All holy scriptures IMO should not be taken literary. The interesting part is Quran gives a very clear description about the promise of sexual pleasure in the after life as a form of reward to the good men. Yet from all those descriptions hardly we can find explaination about the same reward given to the female species.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Amra

The verses in the Qur'an that speak of afterlife are not to be taken literary. Allah s.v.t says that heaven is not like anything a human mind can conceive. That is why when one reads the verses in the Qur'an about the heaven, it describes it in the way a human mind could understand. Therefore, there are references to those things we can identify with, the things we desire and cannot have, etc. It is just meant to show that no desire will be unfulfilled, nor will people suffer or feel pain. The only thing that we can be sure of is that Allah s.v.t will be just and will reward the believers in ways one cannot imagine. Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him) said about heaven:
"What no eye has ever seen and no ear has never heard and no human heart has ever perceived." (Narrated in the book of compiled hadiths by Imam Muslim.) In regards to sexual intercourse, it is believed that woman and man will be living in some form of a marriage just like in this life. The woman who is rewarded with heaven will be on a higher level than any "heavenly virgin" (or huria), and Allah s.v.t will grant her anything she desires. If a woman and a man who were married in this life wish to continue their marriage in after life, they will be able to do that. The human being will also be without any limitations as to his characteristics in this life such as jealousies, envy, hatred, unhappieness, sorrow etc. In the end, we really cannot know how the life in heaven will be, nor can we even try to comprehend, but surly it is the ultimate goal and wish of every muslim to achieve God's satisfaction and live in His presence and Mercy.

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Plentiful virgins of both sexes......nothing but the finest wines.........high bosums.......gratuitus sex whenever desired.......temperate climate...........extremely painful and infinite punishment for those that disagree with 'our' message.......24 hour orgasms..........

And this is some type of spiritual heaven??
.............It sounds more like a holiday in some equatorial Club Med run by the cocaine cartels.............

........Sounds like anyone can start their own religion......write down absolutely anything one fancies as long as they can convince others to believe, wait a thousand years, or two thousand, and then the new generations raised on the old myths, legends, parables, and virgin miracles, will do the job of convincing others, by force if they must, that 'THEIR' version of religion is the absolute truth.

...But I think all my virgins, in my new religion's heaven, will be 5' 2' tall....just to be different...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by baddad

...But I think all my virgins, in my new religion's heaven, will be 5' 2' tall....just to be different...

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:lol: :lol: :lol:

Hey Baddad, its 24 YEAR orgasms - and that's a minimum duration!

AP

So, I wonder, if they have motels in paradise, then what time is check-out; 10:00am or Noon?

Ok Folks, I think 'tis enough. We wouldn't wanna offend some people would we ;)..?

Sometimes, "Paradise" is a place where everyone has forgotten the wisdom of:

"Nothing overmuch (in excess)" - Socrates

and

"Too much of a good thing is no good." - my Mommy
(she used to say that about Easter candy)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by atiguhya padma

Hey Baddad, its 24 YEAR orgasms - and that's a minimum duration!

AP

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Yeah thanks AP, But I guess either a 24 YEAR or hour orgasm wouldn't really mean much in heaven, afterall, time would not exist in a paradise............

And I agree with Sub........enough said..........'my bad' for dragging it this far..... *bows low*

Yes, please remember we don't want to offend anyone nor get into inappropriate discussion for this all-ages website ;)

Yes, you people should be ashamed of yourselves.

Papayahed is the moral ballast of this forum.

Hey, if you look a bit way up, I was the one who encourage people to stop mocking :D

*pats Sub on the back and gives her shiny sticker*

And Subterranean is the moral ballast of Papayahed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by subterranean

Hey, if you look a bit way up, I was the one who encourage people to stop mocking :D

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Sub can be the moral ballast, it seems like a tough gig. I would much rather be the "after-the-fact-finger-pointer"

Besides which, I'm wondering how long the naps are?

Wow, I just realized a real theological problem in all this! There are intimatations in Hadith that there is a Kaaba in Heaven and that the angels are constantly encircling it. Well, what happens to prayer 5 times per day during this 24 year thing. Seriously! Where is there mention of prayer or worship in Islamic Paradise? Surely this is a key issue! I must take another look at the Qu'ran.

Moses said unto them: Woe unto you! Invent not a lie against Allah, lest He extirpate you by some punishment. He who lieth faileth miserably. (Surah Ta-ha, verse 61)

There is no mention of 24 year orgasm or sex in the Qur'an nor the hadith, and those who claim such things, need to bring proof, otherwise, their claims can be dismissed as lies.

Well, firstly, your quote is laughable if it is meant to deter people from asking such questions: we live in an age of scientific enquiry not superstitious nonsense (although I do sometimes wonder!).

Secondly, it was Tariq Ali who made such a claim. Tariq comes from Lahore, and is an extremely well-educated political commentator who knows a great deal about Islam. So, whilst it may well be that the 24-yr orgasm nonsense is un-Koranic, according to Tariq Ali it is something that many Muslims believe.

If you had read my post with any degree of attention, you would have noticed that it was an enquiry into the origin of Tariq's claim. So your quote is rather confused and misdirected, I mean did you have it in mind for me, for Tariq Ali or for soemone else altogether?

There are two accepted sources of Islam, the holy Qur'an, and the hadith. Tariq ali is not a source of Islam, and if he claims something, and cannot provide proof from those two sources, than he is not credible and whatever he may say is simply his own opinion; nothing more, nothing less. Same thing with those who cite alleged Tariq Ali's comments; if they cannot bring proof from the Qur'an and the hadith, then their claims have no weight in a real theological discussion, but serve as a way to degrade and ridicule others and their beliefs. Of course, some people are content with that kind of "discussion" and believe it to be enough to form their opinions, but I am sure most of us expect more than "he said, she said", statements before accepting something as a true or false claim.

Also, the claim that you made, (although you have no proof of that, and I can claim the opposite just as well, with more credibility), that many muslims believe that statment of the 24 year long orgasm, is not a way to prove that something is truly God's word or not. If billions of people believed that some verse is in the Qur'an, and it is not there, would they be right or wrong? The rule of majority does not apply where we have facts to refute their opinion; and it certainly is not enough in the situations where we have God's word against theirs.

"If you had read my post with any degree of attention, you would have noticed that it was an enquiry into the origin of Tariq's claim. So your quote is rather confused and misdirected, I mean did you have it in mind for me, for Tariq Ali or for soemone else altogether?"

Well, I am rather confused about your angry comment from before. If you were looking for the truth in the Tariq Ali's comment, why did it offend you when I cited the Qur'anic verse? The verse said that people shouldn't lie about Allah's s.v.t word. That was my opinion about his comment and a way to tell you that his comments are not true. I cannot bring more proof than that, but I have elaborated my opinion further in this post. However, if someone claims that something is true or that something exists, the burden of proof is on him. I cannot prove that something doesn't exist, nor that something is not written in the Qur'an, unless you want me to copy paste the whole Qur'an here, so that we can look for what is not there? ;)

Very nice Amra. Welcome to the sight. There is always room for intelligent input...

But even if someone pasted parts of religious texts here, there would still be suspicion as to whether the accuracy required was present in any post.
Interesting point about the availability of the Qur'an. Is it available in it's entirety on this sight? Are there any religious texts available on this sight? It would make for accurate discussion if it were so......

Thanks baddad...:)
Here is a link to the translation of the Qur'an, if you would like to look up some things. There is also an index so that it is easy to search for topics of interest rather than read it all...although I do recommend reading all of it. ;)

http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/

And here is the link to the site of the interpretation of the holy Qur'an, by one of the most respected scholars. So, if any of the verses are unclear, this is the place to refer to... ;)

http://www.tafsir.com/Default.asp

Amra,

You have an intriguing use of the word proof. Tell me, how do you prove that a text is the word of Allah? Do you have some special formula, or some kind of scientific experimental method or something?

Amra,

The verse you quote I would find offensive no matter who you applied it to. Quite honestly, only a fool would believe: <Invent not a lie against Allah, lest He extirpate you by some punishment.> Let me assure you that this sort of thing just doesn't happen. Furthermore, if Allah doesn't extirpate me by the end of the week say, I guess that will confirm that I have not invented a lie against Allah. I'll let you know how I get on. Tell you what, I'll give you a daily update on my health on this thread if you like!

A psychiatrist one said to a guru: "Religion is merely repressed sexuality."

The guru retorted: "Sexuality is merely repressed religion."