I'm considering learning a second language and I was wondering, from a literary point of view, what would be the best language to learn? In other words, (In your opinion) what non-English language has the best literature?
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I'm considering learning a second language and I was wondering, from a literary point of view, what would be the best language to learn? In other words, (In your opinion) what non-English language has the best literature?
French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, German, Russian. Those are the common ones, in probably the common order for the English speaker, though some people do German before the romances. Personally, I am English and Hebrew learning Italian, which I find easier than French (phonetically I cannot pronounce many French syllables). In terms of literature, most people learn Italian for Dante, and Spanish for Cervantes, and French for a whole slew of authors.
This is of course a western-centered biased list. You could do worse than learn Eastern languages, especially Sanskrit, Hindi, Bengali, Chinese (Mandarin), Japanese, Arabic, or Persian.
French will probably get you the greatest body of work to read. You will understand much more clearly when people say the translations of books from French to English are written in more archaic English than the original French. Modern French has been around for a long time.
Maybe I'm just biased, being raised by French parents in English Canada. :P
I too would recommend you to learn a language that stems from Latin, because once you master one of them it's very much easier to try your hard at another, since most of the vocabulary is similar (French, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish).
On the whole, Spanish would be probably the best idea, because then you can also read the literature of almost all South America and be able to read Portuguese reasonably well, since the written form is very much alike.
German too is a good idea if you're into philosophy, and since it's the second most spoken native language in Europe it's always a good choice. I only know like 7 words in Russian, so can't tell you how hard it is to learn, but the Russian literature sure makes me wonder whether I should give the language a try.
learn arabic just in case you ever decide to become a muslim
First of all, it depends if you are interested in the literature of any country or not. IF not, as i know the first is french which is difficult, at least for me ;)
I think each language has its own characteristics but if you are a fan of poetry, Arabic poetry is the best ever. Arabic poetry has such amazing meanings and expression that need a lot of words to express in other languages. However, novels, plays and other genres are still not that great as poetry.
Arabic is hardly the easiest language though. Not only is the written language different than the spoken language, the calligraphy is downright nearly impossible. Latin languages are far easier than Semitic languages for English speakers to learn.
I knew Arabic once, gave it up and fell out of touch. The most difficult language I have come across. Italian is easier, French is great. Invest some time in French. The language is very different from English, the idiom is very different. It will give you access to a great body of literature, qualitatively, the greatest literature in the Western world.
In terms of being easier: try another Indo-European language (German, Russian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian...).
German is a good choice. German Literature and Philosophy are very rich:
Goethe, Bertolt Brecht, Nietzsche...
Another oppiton is Russian, for Tolstoi, Dostoievski, etc...
Romance Languages:
Spanish - for Cervantes and other Spanish writers. Also, for Latin-American Literature (Pablo Neruda, for example). A very rich choice.
Portuguese- Literatures from Portugal, Brazil, Angola, Moçambique...
Camões, Fernando Pessoa, Machado de Assis, Carlos Drummond de Andrade and other writers are good choices too.
Italian - for Boccaccio, Petrarca (Petrarch), Dante, Machiavelli...
French - there are a lot of well known writers (in Literature, Theatre and Philosophy) as Rousseau, Montesquieu, Victor Hugo, Descartes, Rimbauld, Exupèry, Dumas, La Fontaine, Baudelaire, Flaubert, Sartre...
Ask yourself what would be the best Literature for your own taste.
Songs are also a good oppition when you're learning another language. Take this in consideration.
I didn't like Arabic Literature at all, specially the modern Arabic Literature. As far as novel is concerned, this language can give you access to people like Nagib Mehfooz Tayeb Saleh and Khalil Gibran's philosophical works. It is bloody difficult though. Nine years of regular studies and after falling out of touch for a couple of decades I have nothing to show for those years. I just failed to love that language. Now if you really want to learn an Eastern language, learn Persian. A literary history spanning thousands of years, this language has the most beautiful poetry. Almost untranslatable in English, you can spend your life-time studying poet after poet after poet right from the 6th century BC to the 21st century AD. Compared to Arabic, Persian is dead-easy. With only 7 clauses of mostly fairly straight forward verbs (Arabic has fourteen and most of them irregular!), the grammar is a doodle and a pleasure to learn. The vocabulary is huge but you learn with the passage of time. Here is a taste of the 20th century Persian Literature:Quote:
Originally Posted by HerGuardian
http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/bashiri.../blindowl.html
Surrealism, decadence, horror, no this is not French, this is Iranian Literature!
Well, I am unsure about your regard for Arabic poets, Adunis seems amongst the finest writing today.
For the humanities major, French would be my suggestion. First, it is perhaps easier to learn because of the similarities with English words and sentence structure. Second, the language itself has remained relatively stable through modern history and dialects are less of a problem. Third, the sheer wealth of important authors in all fields provides the widest range of specialised studies. Fourth the clarity and precision of expression of French authors provides a useful model for one's own writing.
German, because of its content, then Spanish. Unless to further your employment opportunities, I would not waste my time on any other languages or second-rate literature.
So you know about persian literature, it is interesting?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafka's Crow
I am persian and persian and Arabic alphabets are the same, but it is really difficult even for me to learn, i can read it sometimes understand but just a little, i do not like it so much its grammar, phonology, and words are difficult, about its literatue i cannot say anything as i do not know so much although in persian literature there are lots of arabic words used in poetry.
Spanish over Italian? Italian is known for its poetry, whereas many of the greater Spanish writers are known for their prose. Italian poetry cannot be translated into English as well. In addition, Italian is an easier language, because the grammar is simpler. Generally people start with 1 of the 4 major Latins (surprisingly not so much Portuguese even though it is more widely spoken than both Italian and French), and work their way from there. It isn't difficult to go from Spanish to Portuguese, or from Catalan to French, or Catalan to Spanish, but Italian to French seems weird.Quote:
Originally Posted by jgweed
I would say Italian is probably the best starting ground however, since Tuscan is the closest to Latin, and therefore will help more with learning the others.
What about the one whose native language is not English, but his field of study is English, which language is better to learn. I once knew a little french but forget all about it. And there is an obligation I know a language other than English (french, german, italian). Which one do you think is better for a student of literature?Quote:
Originally Posted by JBI
Italian first. It's closest to Latin, and offers Dante, amongst other things. French is good too, but from my experience, it is much more difficult to learn. Better to get Italian (Tuscan) first, and then move from there. As for non-native, I can't say, it would depend what you speak first. Italian is very useful, of course, since many, many references are made to Italian literature even in English. Also Italian poetry seems to me to be a stronger tradition than French Poetry (though in terms of prose the French win hands down). Also, you get a better exposure to Italian music, which wins hands down.
My mother tongue is Azer(Turkish), native language Persian, English as Second Language ...Quote:
Originally Posted by JBI
As an English speaker stranded on the language I'll say the second languages I'm thinking about. Warning, there will be brazen namedropping but it most concisely expresses my stance on literatures.
French is the first language I'd learn. It's desirable in itself and it's not far removed from English. Flaubert, Stendhal (who's The Red and the Black I'm appreciating now, in English :(), Dumas and Proust (if I'm ever crazy enough and have the time) are strong literary delights. Balzac and Zola are socially thoughtful storytellers. Good poetry Baudelaire, Rimbaud, Hugo, Valery. Final category, 20th century French thought. Incomparable philosophy, social thought and literature studies (such as Blanchot, Barthes, Lacan, Foucault, Derrida, Bourdieu). As a philosophy and sociology student French is, I'll venture to say, the most useful language today. The pronunciation and delicate wording also grabs me. As that guy says in Matrix Reloaded.
German is the next I'd acquire. German philosophy is very strong as well. Nietzsche I would savor reading in German. The heavyweight Heidegger would be another philosophical indulgence which could occupy one for ages. Rich poetry with Goethe, Rilke, Holderlin, Heine. And good novels by Mann, Hesse, Boll.
People I know who've learned German say it has a good logic and sense behind it. It's nonetheless sophisticated and multifaceted, as I often hear German translators complaining the inability to capture wordplay.
Spanish has lately caught my attention, it's even prioritised itself above Italian in my mind. 20th century Latin America Literature has revealed many curiosities to me, selling diverse writers from all sorts of backgrounds. The "Latin American Boom" has a lot of quality imaginative literature which falls under the genres magic realism and postmodern literature. Plus there's the more traditional Spanish literature of Cervantes and Lope de Vega. Spanish literature also sticks to the Latin alphabet and seems to have smoother, easier pronunciation then French without being technical like German.
I personally wouldn't venture into something so removed from English like Chinese, Japanese, Russian or Arabic. Mainly for practical reasons, if I pick up other languages these just lag behind French, German, Spanish also Italian.
Arabic, given all I know about it, doesn't really intrigue me. The Persian language although I'm curious about. Sufism is the key reason why, the mysticism and poetry in Persian literature of Rumi, Saadi, Hafez and I'm sure there are others unknown to me seem justifying.
The way I see it, just like with English, there is much a person could dwell on and appreciate for a long time in another language. For me, the philosophy alone of a language would merit learning a language like French or German. Equally the poetry alone would make learning French, German or Italian worthwhile. The fact is, you really can't go wrong. Unless you learn something truly marginal like feudal German. I think anyone who reads enough is an internationalist, so it's just a matter of which group of authors do you want closer exposure to.
I would go with French (Flaubert, Zola, Camus, etc.), Russian (Pushkin, Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, etc.), or Spanish (Garcia Marquez, Neruda, Cervantes, etc.).
I have never studied German and, frankly, at times I regret it, its rich body of literature being the main reason for that. Of course, one cannot learn every single thing one is interested in - languages are no exception - which is just one more reason why to pick carefully. I think that it would be the best if you reflected on the things you read and wish to read and other specific areas of interest in which you might certain language to be of use, because everyone of us is going to tell you simply what worked for us, in accordance with our interests, even if you might have some particularly different ones. It all depends on what you want to read and how much time and effort are you willing to invest into learning another language (i.e. whether you want to learn some rather common, Latin-based language, which is technically a useful choice; or some more exotic language because it suits your interests better).
I'd recommend Italian, not just because it is mine (:D), but also becuase I objectively - as objective as I can be - think it is a good language for literature studies, and an excellent base for other Romance languages (so it is going to be incredibly easy to learn French or Spanish after Italian - and vice versa of course). Unlike many, I wouldn't recommend Russian though. My entire life I have been preferring to read its literature in translations (mostly in translations to my other native languages - Croatian and Italian), it 'sounded better' and 'felt' better, emotionally in some way. Hard to explain, probably it was just a personal experience, and those tend to differ. ;)
It is said that Dostoevsky reads better in translation.
One always must consider what they will be reading. Though prose is big, if you are into poetry, you really need to read in the original. Sure you lose something translating Thomas Mann, but you lose far more translating Montale. The fact remains that if prose is all you want to read, you can go ahead with almost any prose major, and gain a little, but if you are into poetry, you really need to pick more carefully.
Difficulty is also another thing to consider. Russian is far more difficult than most romance languages for English speakers. German is also said to be more difficult than most romance languages. If one wants to master the most first, you should stick to what you know first.
As an Italian student, I can tell you that English is probably the worst first language to have for learning any new language. I refer to my examples relative to Hebrew more than English, simply because it is so difficult to understand inflection with using an English mindset. If you are going to try to learn Russian, without any knowledge of cases, you probably will find the process near impossible. That being said, most languages are inflected to some degree more than English, but the romance languages are said to be the easiest to learn.
The choice is yours. Don't go off on a whim and say, "I like Proust, therefore I want to learn French." Proust is available in translation, and though you lose something, you still don't lose as much as you do from translating Lorca, or from translating Pessoa.
Go for Urdu. :p Urdu is a beautiful language. Not being biased here or at least intentionally biased but really Urdu poetry as well as prose is amazing. Works by such poets as Ibn-e-Insha, Ghalib, Mir, Faiz, Ludhianwi, and many more authors are just great. I am especially fond of Urdu ghazals. We have some pretty good prose writers too. Translated material, especially when it comes to poetry, loses a lot.
Personally I would like to learn Persian for the sake of Persian Literature. I have heard such good things about the language by my grandfather (whose father used to write Persian poetry too) that I really want to experience Persian literature (in Farsi). The positive side is that the script is Arabic in Persian's case just like Urdu. Also many of Urdu words originate from Persian...
And it sounds beautiful too!
The factor that my paternal ancestors (while looking at the pedigree long time ago) have been from Iran might be another influence to make me want to examine the language more closely. :)
So do you happen to be from Turkey or Iran?Quote:
Originally Posted by sofia82
I agree, choosing a language over a whim, like a good author, seems to me to be risky and irresponsible. One doesn't learn a language like that; it takes a lot of time, effort and eventually money, so though it's important to like the literature of the language you'll choose to learn, other factors should weight in your decision, namely the applicability of your newly-acquired faculty. At a later stage, if you really want to learn a language, you should spend some time in a country where it is spoken, so it would help a lot if the country's culture, and the country itself, somehow intrigued or at least pleased you.
Hmmm, now I'm torn between Italian and French. Admittedly it is in part because most non-English writers I like are French, and apart from Dante and Machiavelli I know no Italian literature at all. Yet the cause for learning Italian first make sense, even though I generally prefer prose over poetry.
I'd learn French,then German,and finally Russian,in that order.
Iran, not TurkeyQuote:
Originally Posted by Pensive
French gains you access to some of the best movies ever made. The French take great pride in their cinema. I don't watch many movies but some of my favorite modern movies are in French language. Yvan Attal's Ma femme est une actrice and Ils se marièrent et eurent beaucoup d'enfants, Audrey Tautou's wonderful À la folie... pas du tout and Le Fabuleux Destin d'Amélie Poulain. I am not the sort who would watch movies but even I can't resist these wonderful films.Quote:
Originally Posted by johann cruyff
Salam aleykum! Nejasiniz? Man yaxshidir. Uzr isteyiram, manim Azeri dilim chox pisdir!Quote:
Originally Posted by sofia82
I taught English in Azerbaijan with the Peace Corps. I was working in a small village in the Bilasuvar region, near the Iranian border. Until now, I didn't realize how quickly one forgets a language if they don't speak it regularly. Chox shadam! :)
oh, Salam! chox mamnun. Man yakhjiyam. CHox sevindim.Quote:
Originally Posted by EricP
Great job! So you know these regions! Wish you best!
Unfortunately, yes. If one does not speak a language regualarly, one will forget it. How long did you worked there? And you taught English as the second language?
When it comes to prose I think French is very distinguished. Proust is pure prose. I understand he has a single sentence which is around 4 pages long! And, of course, he's a highly acclaimed writer.
One reason, amongst many, as to why I'd like to learn French is to read Samuel Beckett's trilogy. Not at all that I think there isn't excellent Beckett available in original English. I just like the idea of someone coming to a new language, experimenting in it and becoming comfortable in it like Beckett and multiple English writers did in the 20th century.
A final distinguishing factor is French is the mother language of the essay. There are renowned essayists in French like Montaigne, Voltaire, Diderot and more. I find the idea of reading a concise, unitary piece of writing delightful. Not that literary quagmires don't have their appeal (for instance Sartre's Being and Nothingness), but clarity and precision writings are good and generally by nature charmingly accessible.
Certainly French among the modern languages. But Latin would also be a good choice.
My native language is Portuguese. I also speak English, Italian, French, and Spanish.
Next month I will study Latin (because I need to know more about the structure of the romance languages).
For me
The greatest literatures from West are in:
Greek, Latin, Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Russian, English and German (in any order).
About old languages:
- The best Greek literature is from the classic period. It was written in Ancient Greek, very different from the Greek spoken today.
- Latin is not spoken today as an usual language.
- So, we have nowadays: Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Russian, English and German still spoken. That is the most pragmatic group of western languages for learning today.
A thing to consider: Inside that group of Western languages, the most spoken (as a native language) are:
1- English
2- Spanish
3- Portuguese
4- Russian
5- French
6- Italian
(in that order)
The greatest literatures from East are in:
Sanskrit, Arabic, Persian, Hebraic, Mandarin, Japanese, Hindi (in any order).
But nowadays, it would be more pragmatic learning Mandarin, Arabic, Hindi or Japanese (cause, in this group, they are the most spoken Eastern languages). See:
1- Mandarin
2- Arabic
3- Hindi
4- Japanese
(in that order)
West x East
Most spoken languages (as native language) in world are:
1- Mandarin
2- English
3- Spanish
4- Hindi-Urdu
5- Portuguese
6- Arabic
7- Russian
8- Japanese
9- French
(is that order)
Dead languages (Sanskrit, Aramaic, Ancient Greek, Latin) are good just for curiosity or deep studies of linguistic, but its learning is not pragmatic as an usual language.
I consider Literature and Philosophy very important subjects for all human kind. There are important and beautiful texts in English, German, Russian, Romance languages (as Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese) and Eastern Languages (as Arabic, Mandarin, etc...).
Any language and any literature is good for learning. All cultures have things to share.
In this world we live today, there is no excuse for a person that lives, thinks and speaks just your native language.
Don't mind what is one person's native language. Learning a foreign language is an essential thing for anyone.
Do French, then you can read Endgame in French, which is in really simple French. Same for Les Enfents Terribles.
And L'Etranger. Gide is also very easy to read. And Colette.Quote:
Originally Posted by kelby_lake
to Brasil =) real good post. I liked it. very logical and convincing.
to all
First I wanted to say that German is not a romance language, unfortunately, it is germanic.
for most english speaking people (even if English is a second language) learning Romance languages is easy first because of writing, you have one common alphabet and common way of writing letters. unlike say Russian or Chinese, JApanese, Arabic.
Besides many words you will learn will have the same connotation, meaning and form (ok, I will say similar) to the English ones, of course phonetics is a thing that should be taken in consideration seriously.
I just wanted to say that due to the fact that many russian writers remain unknown beyond the country because they are hardly translated. many people know only about those who were translated, and that is all. but this doesnt mean that we have only Tolstoy, Dostoevsky and Chechov to be proud.
Russian literature has also very reach and beautiful poetry, A. Pushkin, A.Akhmatova, V. Mayakovsky, A.Blok, S. Esenin, they wont be understood in transltation... no matter how good the translation may be.
Good luck in studying languages =)
If you choose French, I think you'll find that it only gets easier when you get the fundamentals down. The English language was very much influenced by French at one point in time. Although, if you take any given English dictionary, which comprise the largest amount of words of any dictionary, a very little percentage of the words actually stem from Old English. Thus, the point I mentioned above will apply to other languages as well.
I would go with either French or Russian, but I am also biased due to my minimal knowledge of the East.
Addendum: Native English speakers are quite fortunate. After all, the Italians excelled at the visual arts more so than in their literature, or at least such is my opinion, and the Germans with their music, both of which can be appreciated without a knowledge of Italian or German. French and Russian seem like the best choices if you take this approach.
Indo-European family: languages like German, Russian, English, Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, French, Latin, Greek, Hindi, Sanskrit, Bengali, Punjabi, Urdu, Persian....
In resume: Hindi (and other languages from India), Persian and all european languages are Indo-Europeans.
Subdivisions (groups inside Indo-European family):
Italic - Romance: Italian, Spanish, French, Portuguese, Catalan, Sicilian...
Germanic: German, English, Norwegian, Swedish...
Slavic: Russian, Polish, Slovak...
other groups inside Indo-European family:
Celtic,
Greek,
Indo-Iranian,
Armenian,
etc...
Not Indo-European (other families):
Altaic family: Japanese, Korean...
Sino-Tibetan family: Mandarin, Cantonese, Wu....
Afro-Asiatic family: Arabic, Hebrew, Aramaic...
etc... (there are other families and subdivisions)
I lived in Azerbaijan for six months: three months of Azeri language training and three months teaching English as a second language in Bilasuvar. I returned to the U.S. early because of some personal issues, but it was a very interesting experience!Quote:
Originally Posted by sofia82
Great! In six month you learned Azeri?Quote:
Originally Posted by EricP