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I read this play last week, and, while I found it did a good job portraying the lives of what I call "schnooks" I just couldn't sympathize with Willy Loman. In my English class we're discussing whether or not the play is a tragedy. In my opinion, it isn't because the guy has absolutely nothing good about him: He's a rotten, egotistic guy who cheats on his wife and threatens to beat his son when he's caught.
A tragedy doesn't have to be about a good upstanding pillar of the comunity.
I am reading that play in English right now. i hate Willy. He is a real basterd. All he dose is use and abuse, and because his life is so pathetic he feels he must show off at home so he doesn't feel so pathetic. His death was not a loss.
Maybe the tragedy was the way that he lived his life rather than his death. Personally I havn't read it, so if I'm on the wrong track here someone feel free to shoot me down, but isn't the play about the American Dream and about how every kid thinks that they're going to have a super wonderful life and be an astronaut or a president or somthing, and instead Willy ends up being like a crotchety old bastard? Again I havn't read it, but from what I've heard, the tragedy would be his life rather than his death.
Well said, it is also tragic that he had to bring kids into the world. Happy is about as ****ed up as willy. They are both horrible people.
Has anyone read Death of a Salesman? I have to Analyze the character "Linda Loman"...can anyone help me with this?
Hello! I've read Death of a Salesman and I have to confess that I didn't like it. But I did have to do a Book Report about it.
Here's my analysis of Linda Loman:
Linda Loman is Willy's wife and Biff and Happy's mother. She's described as a "jovial person". Although Linda is not physically described as deeply as other characters, her internal description is what makes her an important character. She's the support of the family and the only one that can handle and understand Willy: "...she has developed an iron repression of her exceptions to Willy's behavior". She loves her sons and even more Willy: "...she more than loves him, she admires him...", "He's the dearest man in the world to me, and I won't have anyone making him feel unwanted and low and blue". Linda is a very loving, humble and she's there where help pr aid is needed; she can be considered "the perfect mother". Despite all her great characteristics, Willy had an affair which Linda never knew. As we can see, she's the typical woman from the 50's.
Well, that's what I wrote about her. I recommend that you first read the book and also understand Willy first in order to understand Linda.
After reading all the negative feedback about Willy, i feel like i should throw in my bit, and stick up for the poor guy. While he is a weak and insavory character, he does not mean to be. And Biff failure could be that he does not wish to work for the American Dream. He wants to work with his hands (Willy was good with his hands too) and that does not work in capitolist society.
Willy tried his best with his sons. He thought that the best way to succeed was to be liked, and to aim high. And up to the Boston trip, Biff was all set for success. And even though he ignored Happy, Happy still wants to make his dad proud, and even vows to avenge his death as it were in the job market. It strikes me that Willy loved his sons completly, and did not intentionally make their lives difficult.
And sa for Willys mental health, and work ability, it is more if the American Dream and the capitolist system that scwres his up. The dream say if you work hard you reap rewards. But Willy can not even afford all the payments on his salery, and was working for less money when he was fired then when he started out. He is explioted.
I could go on and on, but since i dout anyone will this i wont. But Willy is not a great man, but neither is he a bad man, and if he had a different job, or lived somewhere else, the whole waste of his death could be avoided, and the whole family could have been happy.
Well said Akutenshi, thanks for sticking up for him. Life has beat him up. He wants his kid, Biff, to be a college football star. He is unkind to Bernard. And, as I recall, a neighbor offers him a job; but he is too proud to accept it (another foible). He regrets that he's a modest salesman, if even that. No pension back in those days, no social security. He works 6-7 days a week, and as I recall the last payment on the mortgage just went in and they now own the house. Linda does care about him even while probably suspecting or knowing his shenanigans, but forgives him. Boston is a blot, so he probably carries around a lot of guilt, esp. when dealing face-to-face with Biff. His dreams and expectations and ideals from youth have not come to fruition and he is morose. But this piling-on of tribulation is upon a good souled person. He's not villanous or even very mean. He bounced around by life and feels he has no control in society, or over his fate if he mumbles about it. Late in the play, he goes over in memory the "good ole' days". He's a person to be pitied.
Also compare another guy who we all like: Jackie Gleason in The Honeymooners. True, he has no Boston, plus we see his devotion to Alice, but we also see a dreamer and a person stuck in an economic bind; a person who wants more out of life but everything goes amuck. Luckily, he has a sense of humor about life's ups and downs. We don't see much humor in Willie.
Willie never knew his father while his brother is a cut throat businessman (just look at the way he almost pokes out Biff's eye with his umbrella in a pretend fight and then tells him not to be sentimental about anything) who probably made his fortune by exploiting others. Willie didn't go down the path of the heartless crook of a businessman like Rockefeller, he raised a family with a woman he sincerely loved once upon a time and still does in a way, while he does the best being a father to his sons despite never having had any advice or experience to show him the way to do it. He stays with his family too. He cheats on his wife but he stays with her, he doesn't leave her with the boys to fend for themselves which he very easily could have done, but he stays and he makes sure they have what they need. He gets a house, a car, he sees his sons through school and does his best- what more could anyone ask of their father? Maybe he wasn't the best but few men are and at least Willie Loman could say that he tried. He stuck around and he tried.
He got his ideals all wrong perhaps but I think Miller was saying that this is what American society does, it fosters a competitiveness in honest people that isn't natural and turns them into vicious, cynical, lonely people, like Willie.
This has been pointed out by previous posters and by one I think called IWilKikU who hasn't even read the play so I don't know how he found it out but yes this is about the tragedy of the American Dream seen in an ordinary man who was deep down a wonderful man; it was the false ideals and money-driven work that made him the confused, sad, crazy, bitter old man he became.
The tragedy of the play is in the fact Willy's world revolves around how he has to be successful. His world revolves around his success, which culminates in his downfall - therein supposedly lies the tragedy.
Mother Theresa said, "We are not here to be successful. We are here to be faithful." But then, that's Mother Theresa for you.
Mother Theresa was a great Woman.
And she has a good point, Earthly pursuits are not what life is about, but the faith and servitude we offer to God
Hi,
I have to write about if Willy Loman fits the definition of a tragic hero. What is Willy Loman's tragic flaw? How has the Great Chain of Being been restored in the play?
Any help would be appreciated.
first he finds his neighbors trampeline,tries it out,breaks his leg,then gets bitten by
a rapid dog,some cruel gang members run up on him dowsing him with gas
then sets him on fire,if thats not enough,when he tries
to call for help,his celphone gets a rash..oh i'm sorry thats another movie.
kill all salesmen,if a guy in a suit is selling it,he's definately up
to no good
Willy Loman's tragic flaw was he hadn't freed his willy in so long,that it feel back into the ocean and died a horrible life.
just a joke or two to help out with your studies,laughter is a genuine medicine
i'll let you get back to seriousville now.
IMHO........Loman's flaw is one which Hamlet suffered 400 years before 'Death of a Salesman' was written. Loman is indecisive, unwilling to exert his volition, unwilling to take the chance on a new path, unwilling to act upon his own convictions, more willing to let things remain unfinished, unchallenged, rationalizing his failures, finding reasons outside of himself that justify inaction or a refusal to be in command of one's own destiny, willing to ignore his own inner voice and instead take the easy less confrontational path and thus avoid responsibility for his own actions..........sort of .........
I need to know a good answer for these questions in miller's play:
1. Does miller seems to be making a political statement against capitalist way of life in the USA..
2. In which way he critisises the american dream..
Please i need your point of view and i would be grateful
Hello, arabian night. ;)
Arthur Miller I consider one of the most allegorical playwrights of modern times; he very well defines the contemporary identity of tragedy, distinguishing it much from classical tragedy.
In my opinion, yes, in Death Of A Salesman Miller strongly advocates not necessarily against capitalism, but surely sheds light on some of capitalism's darker aspects, and those of the so-called 'American dream.'
Though I have only read the play once, years ago, I specifically remember the main character, in essence, living to work and working to live - a very hard worker who, in a way, neglected the other aspects of his life. Capitalism, I believe, focuses much on competition and, so to speak, prospering who performs best in sales positions, leaving others behind in poor ruins. Furthermore, the termed 'American dream' revolves entirely around proclaimed success of earning lots of money, maintaining good funds, and stabilizing that throughout life.
At the main character's funeral, we find it especially true that he spent his life pursuing such success of attaining the 'American dream' via capitalism. Realizing and calling this a tragedy, especially in persisting contemporary times, affects most strongly the reader, finding that, yes, Miller intended on focusing much on the weaknesses and tragedy in capitalism, the competition of life's proclaimed success, and the sadness of knowing one may spend his/her entire life in these allegorical endeavors.
Good luck, and I hope I have helped. :D
As a quick footnote, I believe Miller touched upon a lot of political views, which I attempted speaking of without great detail. In advance, if you, Logos, Scheherazade, or Admin, find my message against forum rules, speaking of politics, please notify me, and I will gladly edit my post, and apologize. :)
Thank you very much mono :) you saved my day
I agree that The american dream can leads one to his destruction if it was not fullfilled and if the person was blindly following the illusion of the american dream not being aware of any other chances and ways of life.
As a good example is Willy when he insisted that his son would achieve the dream because he is "well-liked",but unfortunately Biff will not successed in being what his father thought, which will lead willy's into chaos and living in the great old times.
On the other hand, I think if Biff has not failed his math test and if he compensate for it in the summer he maybe would have been another person ..just like his friend Bernard who studied and become a hit.
I thank you again mono
:confused:
If anyone knows a good source of critical opinions on Death of a Salesman, please reply!
thanks xx
:)
I did a google search and this came up: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...lesman&spell=1
There must be something in one of those sites.
I have to study Death of a Salesman for literature gcse in about a weeks time so I decided to do some last minute swatting. My question is, in your personal opinion who is to blame for Willy Loman's suicide? Apparently there is no right answer, but I have no idea and I need to have some sort of opinion before I take the exam...Plz help!
Capitalist society and the norms and values that it promotes. Loman is discarded when he ceases to be useful to capitalist society.
Despite his desperate searching through his past, Willy does not achieve the self-realization or self-knowledge typical of the tragic hero. The quasi-resolution that his suicide offers him represents only a partial discovery of the truth. While he achieves a professional understanding of himself and the fundamental nature of the sales profession, Willy fails to realize his personal failure and betrayal of his soul and family through the meticulously constructed artifice of his life. He cannot grasp the true personal, emotional, spiritual understanding of himself as a literal “loman” or “low man.” Willy is too driven by his own “willy”-ness or perverse “willfulness” to recognize the slanted reality that his desperate mind has forged. Still, many critics, focusing on Willy’s entrenchment in a quagmire of lies, delusions, and self-deceptions, ignore the significant accomplishment of his partial self-realization. Willy’s failure to recognize the anguished love offered to him by his family is crucial to the climax of his torturous day, and the play presents this incapacity as the real tragedy. Despite this failure, Willy makes the most extreme sacrifice in his attempt to leave an inheritance that will allow Biff to fulfill the American Dream.
Ben's final mantra—“The jungle is dark, but full of diamonds”—turns Willy’s suicide into a metaphorical moral struggle, a final skewed ambition to realize his full commercial and material capacity. His final act, according to Ben, is “not like an appointment at all” but like a “diamond . . . rough and hard to the touch.” In the absence of any real degree of self-knowledge or truth, Willy is able to achieve a tangible result. In some respect, Willy does experience a sort of revelation, as he finally comes to understand that the product he sells is himself. Through the imaginary advice of Ben, Willy ends up fully believing his earlier assertion to Charley that “after all the highways, and the trains, and the appointments, and the years, you end up worth more dead than alive.”
A speech made by a friend of Willy's after his suicide is well known and ends with the lines: “Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory.”
Do you write for spark notes?! If not I would get onto them for plagiarism!
I would argue that this play is a tradegy. I thing Willy Loman was tempted by the prospect of the American Dream. The first mistake I think he made was choosing to live up to the salesman Dave Singleman (single man). Although Willy did lie about his affair and his wages I think that from time to time he doesnt realise that he's lying. He tells Biff that he is not a "dime a douzen", he thinks he actually is someone special and he is living the American Dream, when he clearly isnt.
I think this play is a tradegy because Willy ruins the lives of his family. When Biff finds out about Willy's affair he is distraught. He no longer wants to strive to be sucessful and just gives up on going to university. Willy ruins Linda's life because she loved him and stood by him through everything and at the end of the play she makes the last payment on the house and "nobody will be there". She is a widow with two unsuccessful sons and no one to provide for her.
I dont think Willy should be ridiculed because he only wanted what everyone wants, a successful career, a family, and a legacy. I think the most important thing to Willy is to be remembered. He tries to be a successful businessman, which doesn't work out. He tries to leave behind two successful sons to carry on the Loman name after his death, which didnt go to plan either. It comes to the night of Willy's suicide and he still hasnt left anything behind. And so he plants the garden. Ok so you may think that Willy planting the garden in the early hours of the moring shows his mental instability, however I would disagree. I think that there is method behind Willy's madness, he simply wants to leave behind something, and what is a better symbol for life and growth than a seed.
I've read TDOAS for school, and I found it dry, and hard to follow. But then again you should be reading plays, you should be seeing plays, in my opinion.
As for Willy Loman, yes he has his faults, but I was driven to feel sorry for him at times, at other times I got a little to fed up with his incoherrency.
Still I felt sorry for him, he worked his whole life for nothing really, he was old, broken, and unstable, had lost his job and couldn't afford to keep the household, he had one good for nothing womanizing son, another was a kleptomaniac who couldn't take it anymore, and told everyone their fortunes.
Still I found it to be overall enjoyable, if not a bit hard to follow at times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanislaw
To be honest I wasn't a huge fan of the charactor McBeth... still a tragedy though. I beleive it was Arthur Miller who wrote the essay arguing that the failed attempts at acheiving the American Dream can count as tragedies becasue before that it was usally a word reserved for the fall of nobles
The first time I read it I kept getting confused as to when it changed from present day to a flashback. To make it easier to follow try marking the end and begining of each of Willy's flashbacksQuote:
Originally Posted by Theshizznigg
Yeah I completely agree with that. Linda is a woman who loves her husband and sons and will support them through anything. Even when Linda knows Willy is lying to her about how much money he made in New England she doesnt say anything. Also she doesnt confront Willy about the attempted suicide because she doesnt want to upset him.
Plays are definitely better when seen (except for Shakespeare, which does need to be studied thoroughly before being seen, especially with unwieldy tragedies like King Lear, in which everything simply goes too fast in a play for you to be able to keep up without having studied the text before). I saw DoaS with Brian Dennehee as Willy Loman and it was fantastic. Only annoying thing was that Biff was a British actor trying to put on an American accent and he ended up sounding like he had a speech impediment :D .Quote:
Originally Posted by Theshizznigg
I have an essay to write for my English class that I am having some serious trouble with.
"Choose a defining scene in 'Death of a Slaesman', a scene that is significant to the play's theme or significant to a character's development, self-discovery or self-revelation. Compose an essay in which you explain the scene's relevance in revealing those elements."
I have chosen the fight between Biff and Willy after the restaurant fiasco, but I'm fresh out of ideas as to what to write.
I have less than a day to do this - PLEASE HELP AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
What about the scene where Biff dicovers what Willy has been doing in Boston? I always thought that disallusionment was a theme from the play. He realizes that Willy is not the best person in the world and is only human.
I think another good one would be where Biff tells Happy that he wants to move out west and work with hands. He discovers that the western thing is his American Dream.
Well, if you mean the scene when Biff pulls out the pipe from the basement, the way to get more ideas is to go over the scene, step by step. Perhaps first list the steps, say, 1) Biff produces the pipe. 2) Willy looks away. 3) Linda gasps -- remember she's there too and is involved in the scene. 4) Biff pushes the pipe in his face. 5) Willy shakes his head no. 6) Biff starts that monologue about the pen, and how he realized he wasn't a businessman. 7) They hug each other.
I'm sure the above is not exact, and there are probably a dozen steps. But, by breaking the scene down into shifts in the action, that will give you ample things to write about.
Oh, I see it's too late. Hope you got a decent grade.
Yea, I kinda found out that I was too late after I posted the thing. Sorry. I also hope you pass.
I wish someone came sooner.
I have this essay to write on the following:
Willy Loman is both a victimizer and a victim. Show whom he victimizes and how, and how he in turn is victimized. Use specific references to the play to support your ideas. I have to accurately describe, how Willy hurts 3 characters and also how he himself is hurt by a person and a force.
Any ideas or suggestions to get me going in a certain direction would be very helpful! Thank you!
i'm not a great help but i will try.
the three characters i would say willy hurts are Linda, Biff and Happy.
In my opinion Linda is hurt emotionally through Willy's lack of enthusiasm for life, she is willing to help and continues to support him but knows she cannot help him. She wants so much to fix Willy but is scared to alter his fictionalised perception of himself for fear the realisation of his actual existance will destroy him. (seen in Linda's refusal to remove the pipe from the fire with which Willy is determined to kill himself). Therefore Linda is trapped within a role with Willy as an unaware oppressive force.
Biff is a victim of Willy's unwavering belief in the American Dream, as is his other son Happy. Happy is forced into a belief of the American Dream and the success of capitalism through his father's fictionalised account of his occupation. This belief in lies allows Happy to evolve into a duplicate of Willy, unable to see the reality that capitalism unwittingly fails many of its believers. Biff is a victim due to his wish to pursue an occupation not condoned by capitalism. His wish to be a farm hand upsets Willy and in his upset he brands Biff a failure, Biff is a failure to Willy because their dreams are not the same. Biff has the ability to pursue a decent occupation and only feels worthless when his dreams are examined through the rose-tinted glasses of the American dream.
In my opinion Willy is a victim of a society which represented the American Dream as a goal which all American men should strive to achieve without highlighting the inevitable failure that would accompany the pursuit of some. He is unable to abandon his belief and as such destroys the lives of those he cares about without any realisation.
i hope this helped, i tried my best!
Thank you liesl I agree with you, just needed some reassurance. This will help me out with the essay though.
Thanks again